[gmhl10]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Doesn't the ECU limit the boost and rpms for the first whatever miles on these cars now?

I don't believe it would. There are no tables or toggles in the N55 ROMs that I saw that were based on mileage. I've never seen that in any vehicle ROM before. I'd assume this isn't available on S55 ROMs either.

[eijiboy]

If you can still buy this m2cs at msrp even though its limited production, that tells you that there is not much demand and this will depreciate in value after a year or two. You will see a lot of this in preowned market soon

[rjd598]

"I'm struggling with is it worth starting over on debt (90k+ vs 45k) for the cs badge"

No offense, but you're answer is right here...

If you're worried about taking on debt do you really think you're in a good spot to do so also on an asset that "normally" depreciates. You might have better luck at the casino.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by eijiboy

If you can still buy this m2cs at msrp even though its limited production, that tells you that there is not much demand and this will depreciate in value after a year or two. You will see a lot of this in preowned market soon

You should post your opinion on a few more threads.

[eijiboy]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

You should post your opinion on a few more threads.

Nahhh. My opinion is very much related to the topic where i posted.

[yaymitch]

Originally Posted by eijiboy

Nahhh. My opinion is very much related to the topic where i posted.

If in this case it does take a full 1-2 years to start depreciating like you say then we're already ahead of other models which depreciate once you drive them off the lot.

[eijiboy]

Originally Posted by yaymitch

If in this case it does take a full 1-2 years to start depreciating like you say then we're already ahead of other models which depreciate once you drive them off the lot.

Its a limited production car not a regular 3 series that you see a dozen on the car lot so it wont go down once you drive it out. Give it time it will depreciate. Two good example are m3cs and m4 gts. Both limited production like m2cs but both went bust in the second hand market. Gts was sold for $135k msrp now you can buy one with leas than 90k some even at 80k with less than 5k miles. M3 cs sold for $100k plus recently found one for like 80k. History repeats itself

[yaymitch]

Originally Posted by eijiboy

Its a limited production car not a regular 3 series that you see a dozen on the car lot so it wont go down once you drive it out. Give it time it will depreciate. Two good example are m3cs and m4 gts. Both limited production like m2cs but both went bust in the second hand market. Gts was sold for $135k msrp now you can buy one with leas than 90k some even at 80k with less than 5k miles. M3 cs sold for $100k plus recently found one for like 80k. History repeats itself

M3cs/m4cs are bad example. They went bust from the factory. Sat on lots and sold at massive discounts brand new.

[eijiboy]

Originally Posted by yaymitch

M3cs/m4cs are bad example. They went bust from the factory. Sat on lots and sold at massive discounts brand new.

Well its a limited production car. M4gts went bust as well even its very limited.
Knowing you can get a car for msrp that tells you the demand is not there

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by eijiboy

Well its a limited production car. M4gts went bust as well even its very limited.
Knowing you can get a car for msrp that tells you the demand is not there

Ah, and you know the the relationship between everyone and their dealers and the number of dealers that have zero markup policies? Didn't realize the credentials here...

[eijiboy]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Ah, and you know the the relationship between everyone and their dealers and the number of dealers that have zero markup policies? Didn't realize the credentials here...

And yet you can buy a car for msrp without having a relationship with the dealer. I know a dealer that sells it for msrp and I never set foot on their dealer lot. That tells you the demand is not there to cause this car value to increase anytime soon. Wether theybhave a policy of selling it for msrp only they should have sold it right away but right now they can be had for retail even if you never bought a bmw before

[sdhotwn]

And how many GTSs were available at what points and what prices? And what was the economic situation then and showroom traffic? What was the comparison in advertising and roll out time and relative model life?

There hasn't been a single US media buy, US magazine review, or release since November last year on this car before the pandemic and BMW car sales are down something like 20%. You've got all the answers so please do elaborate the math and your detailed economic comparison for demand calculations and consumer surveys you've run on this, or realize that you just throwing out your "bold" internet opinion on it isn't adding much.

You are also tilting at windmills because there isn't anyone here saying arguing strongly that they are going to make money on this car or it won't depreciate to one degree or another. If your goal is to make money you should be investing, not buying cars. We all know the future and any car purchase is uncertain and you buy it because you want it. Coming in here to decry that there is no demand is just being a screeching seagull looking for attention while flying in to crap on things. It makes you about as desirable in the conversation as the sea rats are at a picnic.

[yaymitch]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

And how many GTSs were available at what points and what prices? And what was the economic situation then and showroom traffic? What was the comparison in advertising and roll out time and relative model life?

There hasn't been a single US media buy, US magazine review, or release since November last year on this car before the pandemic and BMW car sales are down something like 20%. You've got all the answers so please do elaborate the math and your detailed economic comparison for demand calculations and consumer surveys you've run on this, or realize that you just throwing out your "bold" internet opinion on it isn't adding much.

You are also tilting at windmills because there isn't anyone here saying arguing strongly that they are going to make money on this car or it won't depreciate to one degree or another. If your goal is to make money you should be investing, not buying cars. We all know the future and any car purchase is uncertain and you buy it because you want it. Coming in here to decry that there is no demand is just being a screeching seagull looking for attention while flying in to crap on things. It makes you about as desirable in the conversation as the sea rats are at a picnic.

The guy you're referring to is just trolling...posting the same BS on multiple threads.

[Higgs Boson]

It's all about the relationship between supply and demand.

The M2CS is limited production for sure, low supply absolutely can raise the price. However, if demand matches that supply exactly, meaning everyone who really wants one can get one and no one is left out, then the price is not going to go up, there is no group of people willing to pay more to get theirs.

There will be a group of people who are waiting to buy one preowned and depending on how many and how often the CS is available used will determine how much they sell for, after a meaningful amount of time of being out of production and unavailable to buy. That group of people needs to also not have found an alternative by then also. We all fall out of love with the cars we once loved. That's natural.

So what new cars can you make money on? Currently the C8 corvette is selling for sticker new and WAY over sticker preowned. Why? Because over the last year or so, you can't get one. LONG lines of people waiting for an order, delayed production delayed even further by Covid means the handful that squeaked out on time a while back are selling for 110-120 on a 90 sticker. As soon as supply approaches demand those people who paid 110 are going to have a 50k car.....That's like paying $4 for $1 bullets because there's an election coming up (not this year haha). Just wait a couple months and pay $1.

The 05/06 Ford GT is another good example but for a different reason. Those cars came out and had subframe issues. They sold for 150-170 and now are 300. You would think people could have found an alternative and moved on but....there is no alternative for that car. There never will be. This is Chateau Haut-Brion, if you don't drink it then you will make money on it because you can't "really" replace it.

So the M2CS is limited production but matched with limited demand. It is also not a car that will have no alternative over time, it is not unique enough, it is not a "destination car," its a car you can get now to enjoy now. Maybe compare it to Caymus. It's a nicer wine but made to drink now. It's nicer than most wines but you aren't going to make money on it.

So don't buy the M2 thinking about resale. It will drop but it will drop at a percentage similar to any of the other BMWs. It will always be worth more than an M2C, you aren't "wasting the money" on the upcharge to the CS, it will always be there. But it's not going to be worth 90k in 2 years. Buy it to enjoy it not to worry about values.

[eijiboy]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

And how many GTSs were available at what points and what prices? And what was the economic situation then and showroom traffic? What was the comparison in advertising and roll out time and relative model life?

There hasn't been a single US media buy, US magazine review, or release since November last year on this car before the pandemic and BMW car sales are down something like 20%. You've got all the answers so please do elaborate the math and your detailed economic comparison for demand calculations and consumer surveys you've run on this, or realize that you just throwing out your "bold" internet opinion on it isn't adding much.

You are also tilting at windmills because there isn't anyone here saying arguing strongly that they are going to make money on this car or it won't depreciate to one degree or another. If your goal is to make money you should be investing, not buying cars. We all know the future and any car purchase is uncertain and you buy it because you want it. Coming in here to decry that there is no demand is just being a screeching seagull looking for attention while flying in to crap on things. It makes you about as desirable in the conversation as the sea rats are at a picnic.

I didnt say anything about making money on this car. The topic is about depreciation and i made an example like m4gts. Before pandemic m4gts was already down. You can buy one for 80k with less than 5k miles and even before the pandemic there was so many available in the market and they were 300 made available in the us (700worldwide including 300 for us) while there is 2200 m2cs will be made worldwide. Im not saying you are not going to make money on this car, all im saying is that it will depreciate just like any other bmw limited production.
If you want the car go ahead. All im saying is dont expect this car to hold value really well as it stands right now since you can buy one at msrp and spec it to your liking will most likely depreciate. Supply and demand. Low supply already but demand still not reaching the supply to cause this car to be sold right away.
And oh yeah m4gts has a mark up as well when it was released.

[OG///M]

My prediction is that the M2CS will hold value better than M3/4CS but worse than 1M.

Looking at the MSRP of the 1M vs the M2CS as well as the production number and it's quite easy to see that.

One thing to note though, if you're thinking about buying the CS because you want to sell it 10 years later for the same price you paid for it, you better keep it completely stock and with low miles.

Which IMO is just sacrilege for a drivers car like this.

[MadBimmeRad]

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, what you are saying about folks changing the hood is synonymous to other folks putting a ///M badge on a 320 thinking they now own a M3

A BMW M2 Competition is always a BMW M2 Competition, and imho, no matter how much you dress it up, it'll never be a M2CS, in originality, in authenticity, in fun factor, or in economic terms

I've been wrong before, I may be wrong here too!

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

true, i think of the things that made me reconsider is that the "CS" model is basically like the "Competition" - in terms of trade in, it doesn't have its own individual SKU which I think is going to hurt it long term, at least for the M3/M4

The M2 CS has substantial differentiation from the M2 Comp, but I reckon people will just buy a hood, paint it and call it a day, so who knows how its going to shake out.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

And about halo cars from the past increasing in value or holding well value: wake up in the 2020-2030 decade: emission taxes on the rise, leasing high performance ICE cars getting fiscally discouraged, cities and towns gradually restricting high performance ICE cars, exhaust sounds further muzzled in Europe and COVID-19 shifting the paradigm of priorities for lots of people.

ooooooor

You could come to Australia

Go to Alice Springs in Northern Territory where on a highway North you can drive without restrictions of any kind on a single-lane-each-direction basis populated with hundreds of pilgrim caravaners not like multi-lane Autobahn where people are courteous and professional giving way when they see you coming.

Up there, your only enemies are camels, kangaroos, and the occasional crocodile here or there

Try hitting a kangaroo at 190 Km/h and live to talk about it

[MadBimmeRad]

Despite all the comparisons and opinions in this thread, one thing that has never been mentioned here is COVID-19.

Is it not possible that the subdued response and uptake of the M2CS that you speak of may be the result of COVID-19?

When the M3CS came out, it was a flop by all accounts in a market firing on all six cylinders.

Now, you are looking at a market that is just about shell-shocked and depressed especially in the US with millions unemployed and the economy crapping itself royally.

Viewed in that light, this actually could mean what you're seeing isn't lack of interest, it might be the sign of a sleeping giant perhaps.

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

And yet you can buy a car for msrp without having a relationship with the dealer. I know a dealer that sells it for msrp and I never set foot on their dealer lot. That tells you the demand is not there to cause this car value to increase anytime soon. Wether theybhave a policy of selling it for msrp only they should have sold it right away but right now they can be had for retail even if you never bought a bmw before

[eijiboy]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Despite all the comparisons and opinions in this thread, one thing that has never been mentioned here is COVID-19.

Is it not possible that the subdued response and uptake of the M2CS that you speak of may be the result of COVID-19?

When the M3CS came out, it was a flop by all accounts in a market firing on all six cylinders.

Now, you are looking at a market that is just about shell-shocked and depressed especially in the US with millions unemployed and the economy crapping itself royally.

Viewed in that light, this actually could mean what you're seeing isn't lack of interest, it might be the sign of a sleeping giant perhaps.

M4gts came out when economy was strong and dealer are asking for mark up. Look what happen after 2 years thats before covid. You can buy for a nearly brand new for 80-90k pre covid. Considering its more limited than m2cs it turn into fast depreciating car.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Despite all the comparisons and opinions in this thread, one thing that has never been mentioned here is COVID-19.
Is it not possible that the subdued response and uptake of the M2CS that you speak of may be the result of COVID-19?
When the M3CS came out, it was a flop by all accounts in a market firing on all six cylinders.
Now, you are looking at a market that is just about shell-shocked and depressed especially in the US with millions unemployed and the economy crapping itself royally.
Viewed in that light, this actually could mean what you're seeing isn't lack of interest, it might be the sign of a sleeping giant perhaps.

Over here the M2 CS could be 'reserved' in September 2020 and ordered early November 2020. The immediate sell-out of 131 cars (Belgium & Luxembourg) that BMW likely expected, did not materialize. And already back then, getting an 10% discount was possible. COVID-19 lockdown happened in March, a catalyst for the looming economic recession, hitting hard the car business. Even in Summer 2020 an M2 CS could still be ordered.

Great car, no doubt about that, but too expensive price-tagged by BMW for a 2-Series.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Despite all the comparisons and opinions in this thread, one thing that has never been mentioned here is COVID-19.

Is it not possible that the subdued response and uptake of the M2CS that you speak of may be the result of COVID-19?

When the M3CS came out, it was a flop by all accounts in a market firing on all six cylinders.

Now, you are looking at a market that is just about shell-shocked and depressed especially in the US with millions unemployed and the economy crapping itself royally.

Viewed in that light, this actually could mean what you're seeing isn't lack of interest, it might be the sign of a sleeping giant perhaps.

lol. what an eye opening insight to the bias of the media. it's not your fault, you get what you get....

we, and pretty much everyone I know, are having record months. it is QUITE the opposite of the picture the media is attempting to portray.

yes, restaurant employees have been temporarily out of work and seemingly completely subsidized by government funds, but as far as I can see, our economy is BOOMING.

it's an election year and the media is uber-liberal and there's a conservative president in office. there's a lot of lies and spins happening right now, I am not advocating a political position, just to take what you hear with a huge grain of salt.