[Davil]

Originally Posted by KHAP13

After 1 track day (5x30 min sessions at Hockenheimring) in the M2CS stock alignment, outside front shoulders on the Cup2s were starting to show signs of uneven wear. Rears looked perfect. I didn't get a picture, but I don't think the fronts would last many more track days.

Of course many things at play, driving style, type of track, track conditions... On this particular day it was 95F ambient and hard to keep tire pressures and temps in check.

You seriously has 2h 30min track time? That is incredible. How on earth did it survive that with just some feathering of the tyres?

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by Davil

You seriously has 2h 30min track time? That is incredible. How on earth did it survive that with just some feathering of the tyres?

Are you saying that because of the Cup2's or something else? Trying to understand your perspective here. I'm used to getting 4-5 track days of that length out of a set of RE71R's without issue on my E36 which is only about 200lbs lighter.

[KHAP13]

I think it held up very well, especially considering Hockenheimring is pretty hard on brakes and it was hot. However, I think more negative camber in the front would be beneficial for track use, and for the longevity of tires.

On a side note, the carbon ceramic brakes did experience some fading, but it was gradual and braking points could be adjusted. I am not sure if the pads and brake fluid were stock, or not. Another M2CS was getting occasional overheating warnings on dash when following to close in dirty air -- I didn't experience that.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by KHAP13

I think it held up very well, especially considering Hockenheimring is pretty hard on brakes and it was hot. However, I think more negative camber in the front would be beneficial for track use, and for the longevity of tires.

On a side note, the carbon ceramic brakes did experience some fading, but it was gradual and braking points could be adjusted. I am not sure if the pads and brake fluid were stock, or not. Another M2CS was getting occasional overheating warnings on dash when following to close in dirty air -- I didn't experience that.

Yes i'm running oem MPerf coilovers and oem camber correction hubs and have fixed front camber at -2.25deg.

Wear on both my road (MPSS)/track (AD08RS) front sets of tyres is both even wo any excessive heat cycling blisters / craters on AD08RS

[Mavus]

great info

after testing m2c on backroads it reminded me of my e90 before camber plates and suspension upgrade. This tread confirms my opinion that these cars need -2+ front camber and wider stickier rubber of at least 255f 275r re-71 or similar

Currently -2.5 front and -2 rear on e90. On track and spirited driving with 255 square RE-11 there is even wear. Had the tire wear checked out by Bstone team ar Summit Pt Main and they said perfect wear don't change geometry.

Thinking of getting m2c and learning about the platform.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

great info

after testing m2c on backroads it reminded me of my e90 before camber plates and suspension upgrade. This tread confirms my opinion that these cars need -2+ front camber and wider stickier rubber of at least 255f 275r re-71 or similar

Currently -2.5 front and -2 rear on e90. On track and spirited driving with 255 square RE-11 there is even wear. Had the tire wear checked out by Bstone team ar Summit Pt Main and they said perfect wear don't change geometry.

Thinking of getting m2c and learning about the platform.

255/275 (or 265/295) will be next tyre sizes i run on mine

PFA

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

255/275 (or 265/295) will be next tyre sizes i run on mine

PFA

513m 18" rims?

do you have a side and rear view photos?

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

513m 18" rims?

do you have a side and rear view photos?

Yes

[Davil]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Are you saying that because of the Cup2's or something else? Trying to understand your perspective here. I'm used to getting 4-5 track days of that length out of a set of RE71R's without issue on my E36 which is only about 200lbs lighter.

Both.

So I guess you take it easy on these sort of track days then? I'm used to supersprints. Maybe 4 or 5 sessions of 3 timed laps. Stock camber usually means your outside edges are toast after 4 events.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by Davil

Both.

So I guess you take it easy on these sort of track days then? I'm used to supersprints. Maybe 4 or 5 sessions of 3 timed laps. Stock camber usually means your outside edges are toast after 4 events.

Wrong side of the bed today or something? Not sure why the need for a dig on a question. As far as how hard I drive. Depends on the track or the event. I've also been racing long enough to know how to manage my tire wear and temps too. Hard isn't always fastest. A supersprint for a handful of timed laps is going to have a fairly different strategy than a longer timed event for example.

I think you maybe answered the cause - I run a little more than stock camber, and I also flip the tires after a couple of events. Plus on my e36 I'm not staggered so they are rotated to the rear as well. That was part of the perspective I was trying to figure out - if you were actually seeing full out complete tire wear in 4 events, or setup or tire area specific wear. So if your frame of reference is camber limited, staggered setup, and a tire that can't be flipped, then that all makes sense. Hell there are tires I've seen that can't make it through 2 autocross events (a whopping 12 minutes of race time) before cording the shoulders on certain cars.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Wrong side of the bed today or something? Not sure why the need for a dig on a question. As far as how hard I drive. Depends on the track or the event. I've also been racing long enough to know how to manage my tire wear and temps too. Hard isn't always fastest. A supersprint for a handful of timed laps is going to have a fairly different strategy than a longer timed event for example.

I think you maybe answered the cause - I run a little more than stock camber, and I also flip the tires after a couple of events. Plus on my e36 I'm not staggered so they are rotated to the rear as well. That was part of the perspective I was trying to figure out - if you were actually seeing full out complete tire wear in 4 events, or setup or tire area specific wear. So if your frame of reference is camber limited, staggered setup, and a tire that can't be flipped, then that all makes sense. Hell there are tires I've seen that can't make it through 2 autocross events (a whopping 12 minutes of race time) before cording the shoulders on certain cars.

No I was just being inquisitive not judging.

Yes I had some Hoosiers de-laminate on an e36 after one event. Those things are so camber dependent but incredible when everything is set up nicely.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by Davil

No I was just being inquisitive not judging.

Yes I had some Hoosiers de-laminate on an e36 after one event. Those things are so camber dependent but incredible when everything is set up nicely.

Internet isn't the best conveyance of intent always!

Yeah, the Hoosiers were super finicky and a quick route to the poor house, but amazing when setup and to temp!

[CSBM5]

Ah the vaunted Hoosier A6...brings back 14+ year old memories for autocrossing the ZHP with my daughter co-driving, stock class, only allowed suspension change then was a front sway bar (Turner motorsports) and shocks (TC Kline valved Koni SAs).

New and then after only 16 total runs . Bottom pic is RF tire off the ground at max cornering = Hoosier A6 grip + front roll stiffness.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Ah the vaunted Hoosier A6...brings back 14+ year old memories for autocrossing the ZHP with my daughter co-driving, stock class, only allowed suspension change then was a front sway bar (Turner motorsports) and shocks (TC Kline valved Koni SAs).

New and then after only 16 total runs . Bottom pic is RF tire off the ground at max cornering = Hoosier A6 grip + front roll stiffness.

Everything about that is classic!!

[Davil]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Ah the vaunted Hoosier A6...brings back 14+ year old memories for autocrossing the ZHP with my daughter co-driving, stock class, only allowed suspension change then was a front sway bar (Turner motorsports) and shocks (TC Kline valved Koni SAs).

New and then after only 16 total runs . Bottom pic is RF tire off the ground at max cornering = Hoosier A6 grip + front roll stiffness.

Awesome, what a flash back! Those things were truly like gum.

[MR.]

I measured another M2 CS and this was the finding:

Front axle
Toe left: 0°04' / min 0°03' to max 0°07'
Toe right: 0°12' / min 0°03' to max 0°07'
Toe total: 0°16' / min 0°06 to max 0°14'

Rear axle
Toe left: 0°10' / min 0°06' to max 0°10'
Toe right: 0°09' / min 0°06' to max 0°10'
Toe total: 0°19' / min 0°12' to max 0°20'

Camber front axle
Left: -1°37' / min -1°54' to max -1°04'
Right: -1°46' / min -1°54' to max -1°04'

Camber rear axle
Left: -1°40' / min -1°55' to max -1°45'
Right: -1°22' / min -1°55' to max -1°45'

Trail front axle
Left: 7°33'
Right: 7°31'

I also measured the heights! This means top wheel arch to lowest point of the rim:

Front height
62.2 cm left front, 61.8 cm right front

Rear height
Both sides 62.5 cm

Just for people who want to know how much lower the M2 CS is. Not sure it is much lower than a M2C.

MR

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by MR.

I measured another M2 CS and this was the finding:

Front axle
Toe left: 0°04' / min 0°03' to max 0°07'
Toe right: 0°12' / min 0°03' to max 0°07'
Toe total: 0°16' / min 0°06 to max 0°14'

Rear axle
Toe left: 0°10' / min 0°06' to max 0°10'
Toe right: 0°09' / min 0°06' to max 0°10'
Toe total: 0°19' / min 0°12' to max 0°20'

Camber front axle
Left: -1°37' / min -1°54' to max -1°04'
Right: -1°46' / min -1°54' to max -1°04'

Camber rear axle
Left: -1°40' / min -1°55' to max -1°45'
Right: -1°22' / min -1°55' to max -1°45'

Trail front axle
Left: 7°33'
Right: 7°31'

MR

MR - yr measurements align well with m2cs actuals and ranges i quote on 1st page of this thread

Basically more neg camber upfront than on the rear for m2cs - opposite stock geo for the rest of F87 variants.

[M2Debt]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

So in decimal degrees that's

0.10 toe, 1.80 camber in the front
0.27 toe, 1.40 camber in the back

That's not far from what I'm running on the OG (0.05, 1.8 and 0.10, 1.6)

How does the M2CS achieve 1.8 degrees of camber? I thought the M2 and M2C were limited to 1.5 without camber plates or hubs. Ive seen ~1.8 is achievable with the added camber from lowering ride height, but the CS is noted to be about the same height as previous F87’s.

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by M2Debt

How does the M2CS achieve 1.8 degrees of camber? I thought the M2 and M2C were limited to 1.5 without camber plates or hubs. Ive seen ~1.8 is achievable with the added camber from lowering ride height, but the CS is noted to be about the same height as previous F87’s.

If that 1.8 is true on the M2CS you can achieve that by adding Camber hubs and keep stock height.

Keeping stock height with camber hubs gives between 1.7-1.8 neg camber. Lowering with camber hubs (like I have done) you can end up with 2.2 neg "fixed" camber with the correction hubs.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I thought I read that there might be a change in camber? The programming for the e-diff and mdm is different. Improved cooling was also mentioned, but I'm not sure what was done it added to improve cooling.

All of the programming will likely be available to C owners at some point.

I recall reading cooling went from 7L to 7.5L

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by M2Debt

How does the M2CS achieve 1.8 degrees of camber? I thought the M2 and M2C were limited to 1.5 without camber plates or hubs. Ive seen ~1.8 is achievable with the added camber from lowering ride height, but the CS is noted to be about the same height as previous F87’s.

My OGm2 front camber evolved as follows:-

Stock - 1.5deg neg std

Mperf coilovers - 1.8deg neg

As above c/w oem camber correction - 2.25deg neg.

Based on the above, adding oem -0.5 hubs would net -1.8 to -2deg front camber on an otherwise stock F87...

[Davil]

Originally Posted by M2C_PLUS

If that 1.8 is true on the M2CS you can achieve that by adding Camber hubs and keep stock height.

Keeping stock height with camber hubs gives between 1.7-1.8 neg camber. Lowering with camber hubs (like I have done) you can end up with 2.2 neg "fixed" camber with the correction hubs.

But that's just static camber. Depending on travel you may have no more dynamic camber which is the bit that actually counts. So you may just be wearing out your inner tyres and introducing annoying steering. File under the many reasons why I hate lowering springs. If you have a proper coil over setup, properly corner weighted and properly aligned then disregard this post.