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      07-20-2019, 09:41 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Z8s were selling for $50k off sticker back in the day since they were sitting at dealerships for over a year. Their value only took off a few later.

The 1M, on the other hand, instantly sold out.

Very different stories altogether.

The 1M was an odd story and will never happen again. A car that was developed initially after hours. Not approved by executives. Eventually, reluctantly produced. Low production. Crazy fun to drive. 3 colours and manual only. Not many options. There's still nothing else like it and don't think there ever will be...

I hope the CS is a good car because enthusiasts deserve more 'pure' and fun cars but I always worry when too many options are given and these turn into marketing exercises rather than stick to the original goal. We will see
"In order to promote the Z8 to collectors and reinforce media speculation about the car's "instant classic" potential, BMW promised that a 50-year stockpile of spare parts would be maintained in order to support the Z8 fleet. Due to the limited volume of production, all elements of the car were constructed or finished by hand, thereby compounding the importance of ongoing manufacturer support for the type. The price point and production process allowed BMW to offer customised options to interested buyers. A significant number of cars with bespoke paint and interior treatments were produced over the course of the four-year production run by BMW Individual, a division of BMW AG."

BMW played the long game with this car.

How many collectibles have 50-year stockpile of spare parts? Almost none.

For a long time the 1M was the only short wheel based compact coupe sports car. However, with the introduction of the M2 the 1M became much less unique because the M2 is nothing else than the modernized version of the 1M with a better everything except transmission and steering. 1M still is a rare and desirable car but just not THAT unique anymore. It went from extremely special to kinda special in my eyes.

Not too sure if the M2CS will be that great. Based on what they changed from the M2C, I feel like you wouldn't really notice much difference. The bulk of the 20-30k premium is pretty much spent on exterior and interior cosmetics.

Last edited by Dav3; 07-20-2019 at 10:04 AM..
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      07-20-2019, 10:12 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Z8s were selling for $50k off sticker back in the day since they were sitting at dealerships for over a year. Their value only took off a few later.

The 1M, on the other hand, instantly sold out.

Very different stories altogether.

The 1M was an odd story and will never happen again. A car that was developed initially after hours. Not approved by executives. Eventually, reluctantly produced. Low production. Crazy fun to drive. 3 colours and manual only. Not many options. There's still nothing else like it and don't think there ever will be...

I hope the CS is a good car because enthusiasts deserve more 'pure' and fun cars but I always worry when too many options are given and these turn into marketing exercises rather than stick to the original goal. We will see
"In order to promote the Z8 to collectors and reinforce media speculation about the car's "instant classic" potential, BMW promised that a 50-year stockpile of spare parts would be maintained in order to support the Z8 fleet. Due to the limited volume of production, all elements of the car were constructed or finished by hand, thereby compounding the importance of ongoing manufacturer support for the type. The price point and production process allowed BMW to offer customised options to interested buyers. A significant number of cars with bespoke paint and interior treatments were produced over the course of the four-year production run by BMW Individual, a division of BMW AG."

BMW played the long game with this car.

How many collectibles have 50-year stockpile of spare parts? Almost none.

For a long time the 1M was the only short wheel based compact coupe sports car. However, with the introduction of the M2 the 1M became much less unique because the M2 is nothing else than the modernized version of the 1M with a better everything except transmission and steering. 1M still is a rare and desirable car but just not THAT unique anymore. It went from extremely special to kinda special in my eyes.

Not too sure if the M2CS will be that great. Based on what they changed from the M2C, I feel like you wouldn't really notice much difference. The bulk of the 20-30k premium is pretty much spent on exterior and interior cosmetics.
Wow a 50 year stockpile of parts?? Crazy.

Having driven many M2s now I'd say the 1M is still totally unique. I know several who own both and all of them say the same about the 1M. It is one of a kind.

I was speaking to a BMW exec last year who told me "there will never be anything else like the 1M"

That being said the M2 is a great car by far the best current BMW.
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      07-21-2019, 09:21 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
Anyway, the point is that this EV future is already rolling and it's gaining momentum. Tesla only just recently started offering a car that the "average" consumer can afford in the Model 3. I don't think it will be long before there are more of the Model 3 on the roads than all other Tesla vehicles combined.
And honestly, all of this somewhat saddens me[/B]. Not because I'm anti-EV or anything, but [B]because it will eventually lead to the death of the cars I love to drive most. We should all be happy that we can still purchase these types of cars (and with manual transmissions!) because it's not going to be long before they're gone. You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict that....it's fairly obvious if you start looking at what's already happening in the automotive scene.
I'm not saying that ICE vehicles are suddenly going to disappear....I'm simply saying that the available offerings will start to decline more and more until there aren't any left. They'll be replaced by electric cars. Nobody is shoving this down our throats...it will be apparent that this is where the demand will shift. I bet if Tesla (or any other manufacturer) came out with a $30K electric car that looked and performed like a Model 3, they'd never be able to manufacture enough to keep up with demand. But that's okay because I'm planning to buy a few different sporty ICE cars with manual transmissions to build my own "fleet" for the future when EVs are the more common form of transportation.
Dance 'til the party is over.
  • Commanding Officer: "The end is inevitable, Maverick. Your kind is headed for extinction."
  • Maverick: "Maybe so, Sir. But not today."
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      07-21-2019, 10:50 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
We should all be happy that we can still purchase these types of cars (and with manual transmissions!) because it's not going to be long before they're gone.
Dance 'til the party is over.
  • Commanding Officer: "The end is inevitable, Maverick. Your kind is headed for extinction."
  • Maverick: "Maybe so, Sir. But not today."
    (source: here )
Some good food for thought; beside a 1M and M2, what else you plan to add to your fleet before the ICE Armageddon?

And, the new Top Gun trailer just makes me want to see the original again. Tom Cruise to too "grown" this time around. But I'll reserve judgment, until I see it.
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      07-23-2019, 12:33 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Some good food for thought; beside a 1M and M2, what else you plan to add to your fleet before the ICE Armageddon?
My fleet requires manual transmissions only, so my choices for new cars are limited. I'd love to have a 5.0 Mustang PP2, but my problem with that is the Mustang seems more like a "kids" car to me now. I had two of them when I was younger and I loved them, but I'd feel like an old man in a kid's car if I had one now.

I'd love to get a 718 Cayman. I actually prefer the turbo engine over the old naturally aspirated six. Those cars get very little love, so I can probably find a great deal on a lightly used one in a couple of years, especially if they start to go back to the six again as rumored.
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      07-31-2019, 05:27 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Cars are not investments.
So. Much. This!!!!!!

I am so sick of the P car world where everyone is obsessed with value and depreciation.

Life is short.. drive the car. If car is too expensive and/or you’re worried about value. DO NOT BUY IT. simple.
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      08-02-2019, 03:19 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
As the train of thought keeps meandering and venturing into interesting curves, I modified the thread title to "M2 CS closest to 1M in value hold + long term perspective in electric vehicles future".
Wow, this thread touches on all the cars I have. I guess I will offer my perspective on each.
Model S - (daily) - On my 2nd Model S (75D). I daily an EV going on 6 years.
Model S - No issues, no maintenance. Handles as good or better than German contemporaries. Acceleration is brilliant. The on-board tech is sublime. I have not used it on a trip, would use wife's ICE SUV for that. If it was an only car with no other alternative. I might stick with an ICE for now. My feeling is that ICE to EV's is what Horses were to ICE 100 years ago. It IS the future. So, embrace it. I have a deposit down on a Taycan. I will reserve judgement until it is out on the market.
1M - I have to admit that I purchased the 1M last year because my millennial son said it was going to be a future collectible. After about 2,500 miles , it is truly a great drivers car. No, it is not the fastest car but it puts responsiveness and handling together so well. I cannot see replacing it with anything in that price range
Z8 - Just a fantastic GT, bespoke bits, S62 engine - so great. I find myself just staring at it in the garage. No more expensive to maintain than E39 M5.
All engine parts readily available. Arguably, better looking than any Ferrari from the last 20 years & much rarer to see on the street today.

I am not a car collector. I do not fret about the value. They are cars, & mean't to be driven & if somewhat valuable, carefully curated. The best I hope for is that they will not suffer deep depreciation. If I ever tire of them (not likely) If get what I paid for them or more. I'll call that a win.
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      08-09-2019, 03:07 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkat View Post
Wow, this thread touches on all the cars I have. I guess I will offer my perspective on each.
Model S - (daily) - On my 2nd Model S (75D). I daily an EV going on 6 years.
Model S - No issues, no maintenance. Handles as good or better than German contemporaries. Acceleration is brilliant. The on-board tech is sublime. I have not used it on a trip, would use wife's ICE SUV for that. If it was an only car with no other alternative. I might stick with an ICE for now. My feeling is that ICE to EV's is what Horses were to ICE 100 years ago. It IS the future. So, embrace it. I have a deposit down on a Taycan. I will reserve judgement until it is out on the market.
1M - I have to admit that I purchased the 1M last year because my millennial son said it was going to be a future collectible. After about 2,500 miles , it is truly a great drivers car. No, it is not the fastest car but it puts responsiveness and handling together so well. I cannot see replacing it with anything in that price range
Z8 - Just a fantastic GT, bespoke bits, S62 engine - so great. I find myself just staring at it in the garage. No more expensive to maintain than E39 M5.
All engine parts readily available. Arguably, better looking than any Ferrari from the last 20 years & much rarer to see on the street today.

I am not a car collector. I do not fret about the value. They are cars, & mean't to be driven & if somewhat valuable, carefully curated. The best I hope for is that they will not suffer deep depreciation. If I ever tire of them (not likely) If get what I paid for them or more. I'll call that a win.

post pics of your taycan when you get it lol..

porsche seems to be the only other manufacturer doing ev right outside of tesla and the ev super cars.
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      08-10-2019, 11:42 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by particulardude View Post
who


cares


buy the car and have fun driving it - do not attempt to preserve it for the next person - you will fail unless it's shrink-wrapped

you will drive yourself nuts

you are welcome
I agree with the post above, I would also say buy a used 1M if future value is important to you. I drive all kinds of cars and the 1M is simple and brilliant, the size/steering will never be replaced. When MSRP was announced for the M2C it was about even with good 1M’s in the market and the 1M has gone up, while used M2C’s will depreciate for many years. Some people have to have new and I get that, also the latest and greatest, but it is almost impossible to predict values....

Get the car that appeals to you, and if it happens to hold decent value, then that is an added bonus, IMO.

If, I had to guess— M2 CS will probably hold more value than other F87 variants, but if production is limited it will be expensive from the start and a possible CSL type of model for “NA only” seems possible. It is difficult to quantify how much values will hold, with so many variables. Long after your purchase, time will tell what F87 was the best value: OG, M2C, M2CS, M2CSL?
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      08-15-2019, 03:08 PM   #76
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Aren’t the reports saying that the CSL will not come to the USA? The safety regulations here seem to preclude many weight reduction measures. The Alfa Romeo 4C is a good example. The U.S. version was a good bit heavier.

This was on the homepage awhile back as info from an insider.

August 2019
One more F87 M2 model is possible. Just looking at timing, it should be something very special, with a very short production run. And it will be US only.

Here is the thread....
https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=901686
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      08-15-2019, 06:10 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
Aren’t the reports saying that the CSL will not come to the USA? The safety regulations here seem to preclude many weight reduction measures. The Alfa Romeo 4C is a good example. The U.S. version was a good bit heavier.
See this post.
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      08-15-2019, 10:44 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
Aren't the reports saying that the CSL will not come to the USA? The safety regulations here seem to preclude many weight reduction measures. The Alfa Romeo 4C is a good example. The U.S. version was a good bit heavier.

This was on the homepage awhile back as info from an insider.

August 2019
One more F87 M2 model is possible. Just looking at timing, it should be something very special, with a very short production run. And it will be US only.

Here is the thread....
https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=901686
This is also with the only official models being the OG M2 and the M2C. Since we know that there's a CS coming out, there's a very VERY good chance that he's talking about the CS since it's not announced yet.

If there were a CSL, there would be more than one more F87 model and we know the CS is a special, short production run model. Looks like the CS may be US only.
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      08-15-2019, 11:47 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by MDuckie View Post
This is also with the only official models being the OG M2 and the M2C. Since we know that there's a CS coming out, there's a very VERY good chance that he's talking about the CS since it's not announced yet.
If there were a CSL, there would be more than one more F87 model and we know the CS is a special, short production run model. Looks like the CS may be US only.
Sorry to say, but your assumptions are incorrect:
  • the M2 CS gets worldwide distribution (alike the original M2 and M2 Competition: EUR LHD - EUR RHD - USA LHD).
  • he is definitely referring to the possibility of yet another F87 model than the M2 CS, and apparently it's US only.
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