09-09-2019, 06:00 AM | #1 |
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Really Poor Traction (Continental Tyres)
Hi All,
I'm not enjoying my M2 as much as I would like as I've found that accelerating from stop can be a really frustrating and sometimes dangerous experience. In any of the following conditions, I experience problems with traction when I start moving from a total/complete stop:
The behaviour is that there will be rapid banging coming from the rear - I'm guessing that the differential is trying to control the slip on the tyres and the back will slide. I am not going WOT at all - I'm now incredibly ginger with the accelerator. I've also had trouble when the car is in motion - for example if I attempt an overtaking manoeuvre on a single lane (in either direction) road, the car will skid/slide on the white paint in the middle of the road in dry weather!! The one thing that comes to mind are the tyres - lost the tyre lottery and ended up with Conti's. I know Continental make great tyres, just not the ones BMW fits to the M2. I've been to a tyre shop to check the pressure and let air out of the wheels to try and improve traction, but it is still just awful and completely unacceptable on a performance car. I'm wondering whether other folks have had this experience, and whether it was solved by a tyre change? It is now to the point where I'm wondering whether as it is so awful that there is possibly some other problem? My car is a MY18 LCI, with DCT - it hasn't yet done 7,000Kms on the Conti's. It has also never been tracked and never done burnouts/slides (other than what has happened accidentally). What are the thoughts of fellow owners...? I am just completely amazed at how bad the M2 is at achieving traction on regular roads, particularly given how careful I now have to be with touching the accelerator. |
09-09-2019, 06:33 AM | #3 | |
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Hi mr_lab_rat
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Given how unstable the car is, I almost never drive the car by choice when it is raining. I do drive it on wet roads where it has been raining, but the rain has cleared and the surface is still moist from earlier. When I have no choice and I need to use the car when it is raining (maybe once a month) I use Comfort due to the dulled throttle response that it comes with ... my logic being I'm not so likely to have a skid |
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09-09-2019, 06:57 AM | #5 | |
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I have not experienced the second issue ever. In the dry my car is very hooked up. I have a 17 M2 with MPSS tires and I'm quite happy with them. 23k kilometers now and 3 track days on them. Better tires will help in this situation. I drive in DSC off most of the time, and the wet grip of the MPSS tire is actually quite good. I am very gentle and smooth with my throttle application. Rolling on and off. This helps a lot. If I'm more aggressive with the throttle in the wet I can break the rear wheels quite easily.
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09-09-2019, 11:03 AM | #6 |
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I was only able to get 10,000+ miles on the original Contis before uneven wear made them very noisy, so I replaced them with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires which are better in every category than the newest generation Contis.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...SortCode=57647 |
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09-09-2019, 11:14 AM | #7 | |
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Last edited by alavigne; 09-09-2019 at 11:18 AM.. Reason: enhancing explanation |
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09-10-2019, 06:02 AM | #8 | |||||
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Hi Folks,
Thank you all for your comments I've got to stress that I am already very sensitive to this, and the skidding and sliding happens anyway. Its difficult to describe as these things are always a matter of perspective, but I am giving very minor throttle inputs and it will still break loose. I've been driving for over 30 years, and I've never had a car that does this, including cars that are more powerful than the M2. Quote:
I'm kind of wondering whether there is some other mechanical issue at play here. The car has its 2 year service coming up and I'm going to complain to BMW about it and see whether they can find anything wrong as part of the scheduled service. I also have a specialist that I'll get to check the car over. Quote:
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The responses provided make me think about how the car used to be when I first got it, and I don't seem to recall that it was as lousy... and that breaking traction is a fairly recent thing (as in the past 3-6 months). Quote:
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Anyway, as I said, I'm going to resort to getting BMW to take a look at the problem. I have low expectations as the 3 BMW dealers that I have used in the past have really awful mechanics ... they are fine to change oil (although one struggled with that). Cheers, |
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09-10-2019, 09:48 AM | #9 |
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Probably a long shot, but are your tires inflated properly? 35psi (Sorry, I don’t speak KPA...) cold is what they put on the door sticker in the US. How is traction in corners? Do cornering limits seem abnormally low? If it is the tires, I’d expect traction to be low in corners, too.
While everyone here likes to hate on the Continentals that came on your car (mine too), they weren’t terrible. Just an older design with lower limits when cold, and a short life. In warm weather, and on track, they worked fine for me. Not well enough that I bought another set to replace, but I was content to burn them off and replace when worn out. In Seattle, we spend a fair bit of time on hills, and in rain, I didn’t find the tires, or the car, lacking in traction. Insist on a ride along at the dealer, so they can experience what you’re describing. Otherwise you’ll probably get the same dismissive assumptions about your driving. Hopefully they’re near a hill. Good luck! |
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09-10-2019, 09:49 AM | #10 | |
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09-10-2019, 10:20 AM | #11 |
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I used to literally drift around turns in the dry with the contis and they only had ~7000 miles on them. Admittedly that was super fun but it felt dangerous too. In the rain the back end of the car was all over the place. As soon as I switched to MPS4S It was a night and day difference. I haven't gotten any wheel slip during acceleration or turns in the dry or wet yet. The car feels glued to the road. If I were you I would definitely start with replacing the tires as they seem like the most probable culprit.
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09-10-2019, 12:34 PM | #13 |
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I live in a wet climate (raining today) but I have had zero issues with my Contis. I always drive in Sport.
I am not sure that the tires are the problem. |
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09-10-2019, 03:17 PM | #14 | |
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Even with the 5Ps, driving DSC off and FBO BM3 Stg2, I don't have traction issues. Though I do ease into the throttle when I accelerate, I've yet to push it hard enough to spin out. I did have problems when my previous set of rear 5Ps were almost wore out though. Once they hit the wear markers, I have to be more careful in the rain. |
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09-10-2019, 03:43 PM | #15 |
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I went from Michelin super sports to Conti extreme contacts - Michelin's on dry better grip but Conti are better every other condition. Understanding they are different use tires of course.
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09-11-2019, 10:06 AM | #16 |
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Couple more ideas:
1. tire pressure (someone mentioned that already) 2. wheel alignment, toe out in the rear could cause this 3. defective shocks, get the dealer to test them? Fellow local BMW enthusiast? It doesn't take very long to test swap wheels with another car (M2, M3, M4). That way you can get a feel what different tires would feel like. |
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09-12-2019, 03:12 AM | #17 | ||||||
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Hi andrewc89,
Quote:
Hi Anthony1s, Quote:
Quote:
Hi DanG, Quote:
Hi BostonM235xi, Quote:
Hi mr_lab_rat, Quote:
The only one I am confident doesn't apply is the first as I've had that recently checked by a tyre specialist (who had to remove a nail in the tyre that the BMW dealer didn't even notice). The others are all really useful - at least to the point where I can have a conversation with BMW (or an independent specialist) and get them to check what is going on. Cheers, |
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11-30-2019, 05:00 PM | #18 |
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Fixed - Replaced with Michelin Pilot Sport 4s Tyres
Hi Folks,
Thank you all for the advice you've provided. I took action to see what could be done by BMW - I couldn't believe that the car was so unstable and had a specialist (from BMW Melbourne) look at the car during the annual service. I ended up with their handling specialist in the car as I put it sideways with very little provocation (at less than 40kmh on a suburban street). Amongst other suggestions, the specialist advised me to turn off the traction control (a short press of the button, and not the longer press) as it was very aggressively intervening, and to decrease the pressure in the rear tyres to 32 PSI. The banging that I had reported above is actually the traction control attempting to correct the car slipping. He took the drivers seat and demonstrated that the car behaved better with the traction control off, but it wasn't great. He also suggested that I change to a newer tyre - which turned into a recommendation when he learnt that I had factory Continentals on the car. I've now replaced the (factory fitted) Continentals with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres, and the issues that I had experienced are gone. The difference is unbelievably massive:
I'm totally stunned at the difference. Continental make good tyres, but the ones that were on my M2 were totally unsuited to the car as they provided a defective driving experience. That BMW supplied them on a car of otherwise excellent quality is terribly disappointing: I nearly sold the car as I was done with the poor handling. I regret not changing tyres right at the start, but I am now looking forward to be able to enjoy the car a lot more. Sharing this experience as maybe others can benefit from the lesson that I've learned Cheers, |
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11-30-2019, 10:33 PM | #20 | |
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Hi M Fifty,
Quote:
I also had a handling expert from BMW come with me on a test drive, and I demonstrated to him what the car would do, even at low speed with minimal accelerator pressure. He thoroughly checked the car, including a test drive - according to him, everything was mechanically correct - the hop I was getting was from traction control intervening. Turning off the traction control diminished, but didn't eliminate, the wheel hop. Changing the tyres fixed the issue, and as a bonus, improved a whole bunch of other things into the bargain Like I said, Continental make some good tyres ... just not the ones that BMW used to fit to the M2 at the factory. Cheers, |
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