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      07-01-2019, 11:07 AM   #1
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M2 vs C8 Vette

There's a C7 Vette thread going, but i didnt see a C8 one.. Being the first mid engine Vette and a total shift in Vette paradigm, I thought its emergence deserved a thread. To have a mid engine sports car that approaches supercar performance numbers in some trim levels, and within a likely few $k of the M2C price, I would think there'd be some talk here about it, if one can get over the gold chain stereotypical demographic some associate with the brand. I for one am very interested.. Unveil date is 7/18/19. Anybody else?
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      07-01-2019, 11:11 AM   #2
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I thought the mid engine C8 was shooting for $90k plus which is not close the the M2C (but maybe the new CA?).

IMHO they are two completely different cars. So they are not really cross shopped cars unless you don't care about the basics (practicality, etc) or money. My concerns with a C8 is that (1) Chevy haven't made a mid-engine car before so I expect problems, (2) from a flashy car (cars and coffee) standpoint it's going to be seen as a poor man's supercar wanna be (but some people don't care about image, so it's a meh point), and (3) it's going to be much more impractical than any previous generation which makes it suck as a daily (IMO).
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      07-01-2019, 12:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I thought the mid engine C8 was shooting for $90k plus which is not close the the M2C (but maybe the new CA?).

IMHO they are two completely different cars. So they are not really cross shopped cars unless you don't care about the basics (practicality, etc) or money. My concerns with a C8 is that (1) Chevy haven't made a mid-engine car before so I expect problems, (2) from a flashy car (cars and coffee) standpoint it's going to be seen as a poor man's supercar wanna be (but some people don't care about image, so it's a meh point), and (3) it's going to be much more impractical than any previous generation which makes it suck as a daily (IMO).
Dude, been spending a fair amount of time on the Vette forums. Consensus is that the base C8 stingray comes in around $65 - $70k. That is supported by media. We'll find out in a couple of weeks. Wt should be around 3300 and HP between 460 and 500. Also, loads of happy vette owners DD their vettes.. Youre entitled to your opinions, but they seem to be colored more by stereotypical thinking than by the reality of the vehicle. As for practical considerations, there should be more storage with both a frunk and a hatch than an M2 ..

Listen, in all honesty, Ive been one of those to shun vettes over the years and have only owned BMW since 1999.. However, Ive come to realize that this was a product of fallacious thinking, and that in reality, the Vette is a performance car bargain that in its more expensive trim levels can hold its own on any race course with anybody in the world for many thousands less.

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      07-01-2019, 03:13 PM   #4
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GM can't build a decent interior and their designs are for the most part ugly (refreshed Camaro) or anonymous. That said they do performance/value better than automaker. If they can keep the price below $75k and deliver Corvette levels in a mid-engine car they could have a winner.
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      07-01-2019, 03:27 PM   #5
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GM can't build a decent interior and their designs are for the most part ugly (refreshed Camaro) or anonymous. That said they do performance/value better than automaker. If they can keep the price below $75k and deliver Corvette levels in a mid-engine car they could have a winner.
I think the interior of the current model, the C7 Vette is way better than you give it credit for! Theyve improved on the Vettes big time. Agree totally if they come in at a good price with mid engine performance, it will be special.
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      07-01-2019, 03:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I thought the mid engine C8 was shooting for $90k plus which is not close the the M2C (but maybe the new CA?).

IMHO they are two completely different cars. So they are not really cross shopped cars unless you don't care about the basics (practicality, etc) or money. My concerns with a C8 is that (1) Chevy haven't made a mid-engine car before so I expect problems, (2) from a flashy car (cars and coffee) standpoint it's going to be seen as a poor man's supercar wanna be (but some people don't care about image, so it's a meh point), and (3) it's going to be much more impractical than any previous generation which makes it suck as a daily (IMO).
Dude, been spending a fair amount of time on the Vette forums. Consensus is that the base C8 stingray comes in around $65 - $70k. That is supported by media. We'll find out in a couple of weeks. Wt should be around 3300 and HP between 460 and 500. Also, loads of happy vette owners DD their vettes.. Youre entitled to your opinions, but they seem to be colored more by stereotypical thinking than by the reality of the vehicle. As for practical considerations, there should be more storage with both a frunk and a hatch than an M2 ..

Listen, in all honesty, Ive been one of those to shun vettes over the years and have only owned BMW since 1999.. However, Ive come to realize that this was a product of fallacious thinking, and that in reality, the Vette is a performance car bargain that in its more expensive trim levels can hold its own on any race course with anybody in the world for many thousands less.
Woah.... calm down there pal. Was not shitting on the C8 at all. You asked for feedback and I was giving you some and qualified all of my statements with "I think" and "in my opinion" and "that's a meh point". Why did you ask the question on a BMW forum if you didn't want to hear people's opinions that may not line up with yours? If you wanted an echo chamber, go back to spending your amount of time on the Vette forums.

Also, I have owned both a 6th gen Camaro and a C7 vette, and believe me when I say I don't shun or undervalue the performance benefits of American cars. But stereotypes exist for a reasons. So let's not get too out of bounds here assuming I'm just some BMW fan boy. Just giving my initial impressions/comparisons.

Jesus..... sensitive bunch here.
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      07-01-2019, 06:28 PM   #7
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From the Corvette forums, I keep seeing $60-65k to start for the base and the trim levels will be the same as for the C7. I am waiting to see if I will trade my C7 in for a C8 but AFAIC, the C7, even in base form is a step above the M2 so would expect the base C8 to be a couple notches above that if you go by the base C7 performing about the same as the C6 Z06. If Chevrolet does the same thing again, your base C8 will perform around C7 Z06 levels.
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      07-01-2019, 07:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3 View Post
I think the interior of the current model, the C7 Vette is way better than you give it credit for! Theyve improved on the Vettes big time. Agree totally if they come in at a good price with mid engine performance, it will be special.
Have you sat in a Cadillac? The ATS-V is a great car let down by the worst interior by a luxury brand at that price range maybe ever. It looks like they lifted the instrument cluster straight from an old 90's Beretta and added a little LCD in the lower portion.
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      07-01-2019, 08:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostm3 View Post
I think the interior of the current model, the C7 Vette is way better than you give it credit for! Theyve improved on the Vettes big time. Agree totally if they come in at a good price with mid engine performance, it will be special.
Have you sat in a Cadillac? The ATS-V is a great car let down by the worst interior by a luxury brand at that price range maybe ever. It looks like they lifted the instrument cluster straight from an old 90's Beretta and added a little LCD in the lower portion.
This. I fell in love with the ATS-V for a few months before I got the then new 6th gen camaro a few years back. Was ready to go in and lease it but decided I wanted to test drive it first. Sat in the interior and saw the gauge cluster and the Vue system and just couldn't enjoy my test drive. Left without it. If you are going to spend time inside the car, it also has to be somewhere you actually like to sit in.
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      07-01-2019, 10:05 PM   #10
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Woah.... calm down there pal. Was not shitting on the C8 at all. You asked for feedback and I was giving you some and qualified all of my statements with "I think" and "in my opinion" and "that's a meh point". Why did you ask the question on a BMW forum if you didn't want to hear people's opinions that may not line up with yours? If you wanted an echo chamber, go back to spending your amount of time on the Vette forums.

Also, I have owned both a 6th gen Camaro and a C7 vette, and believe me when I say I don't shun or undervalue the performance benefits of American cars. But stereotypes exist for a reasons. So let's not get too out of bounds here assuming I'm just some BMW fan boy. Just giving my initial impressions/comparisons.

Jesus..... sensitive bunch here.
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      07-02-2019, 07:20 AM   #11
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Love the idea of a mid engine Vette. Will consider is when I get back to the States in 2021. As it sits the C7 Grand Sport is one of the best track ready vehicles you can buy today. Interior is ok. Much better than C6, but not world class. But you will not find a better performance bargain. A well driven Corvette at the track will put many super cars to shame. And the V8 sound!
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      07-02-2019, 08:55 AM   #12
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Let's see how it looks first. I have a bad feeling about the ass end based on the cammo cars and renderings and knowing it is the new GM/Chevy on design. Then there's the point raised about first time with a mid-engine, there's the reports of frames bending under heavy power, etc. It's going to be a paradigm shift and that might take a few generations to work out. Personally, I am on board with Jim Mero's concerns, I think the platform was very strong and mid-engine was not needed but GM execs will do what GM execs will do.

i have history with GM including being totally fucked by their bankrupcy (stock total loss), some shitty quality (2001 tahoe what a POS), and have owned many GM cars including the C6Z which I miss, in spite of its cheap interior. I root for corvette racing at IMSA (also pull for BMW too but they struggle) and I believe the corvette has for years been an icon of American auto manufacturing. I hope to one day own a 67 big block.

I would LOVE for the C8 to be a home run, but I'm skeptical. Vette has been a great performance bargain.

but vs a M2C? I don't see them as direct comp. more vs 911.
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      07-02-2019, 09:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Let's see how it looks first. I have a bad feeling about the ass end based on the cammo cars and renderings and knowing it is the new GM/Chevy on design. Then there's the point raised about first time with a mid-engine, there's the reports of frames bending under heavy power, etc. It's going to be a paradigm shift and that might take a few generations to work out. Personally, I am on board with Jim Mero's concerns, I think the platform was very strong and mid-engine was not needed but GM execs will do what GM execs will do.

i have history with GM including being totally fucked by their bankrupcy (stock total loss), some shitty quality (2001 tahoe what a POS), and have owned many GM cars including the C6Z which I miss, in spite of its cheap interior. I root for corvette racing at IMSA (also pull for BMW too but they struggle) and I believe the corvette has for years been an icon of American auto manufacturing. I hope to one day own a 67 big block.

I would LOVE for the C8 to be a home run, but I'm skeptical. Vette has been a great performance bargain.

but vs a M2C? I don't see them as direct comp. more vs 911.
I agree that they dont directly compete, however more than a few M2 shoppers have cross shopped Porshes. The 911 base will likely be at least be at least 10 grand more than the C8.. If vette afficianados are to be believed, starting prices for C8 will be between $64k and $70k, and if true, being within about $5k of the M2C, I think there will be more than few cross shoppers.

I think If it looks anything like this render I bet there will be a ton of cross shoppers

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F...2019-07-01.png
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      07-02-2019, 12:32 PM   #14
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i dont see the c8 being a 60k car even at the base. They mentioned it'll be closer to the current c7 pricing but they didn't mention which version. The c7 goes from 50k-120k so its a pretty wide range.

i can see GM taking the c7 platform give it the c8 styling and offer it as the 50-70k vette and use the mid engine version in the 80-140k Then offer maybe a higher trim level like a Le Mans edition to compete again the ford GT or just call it a different name using the c8 platform.

but yes if they can offer 60k v8 mid engine new...that would be a excellent deal long as the leases are decent on it.

as others said the c8 vette is more of a dedicated sports car..its not really a competitior for a sporty luxury car that can hold 4 ppl.
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      07-02-2019, 12:42 PM   #15
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If the base version is not a ME, there are going to be a load of stunned and unhappy Vette addicts. I've seen some talk of a v6 twin turbo offering but not even a mention of any offering not being ME. Hope you're wrong but I suppose nothing is out of the question at this point. If you look at the renderings and the camo testing videos, with that shortened front, it doesn't even look like they could package the current engine in there. That is a mid engine silhouette.
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      07-02-2019, 02:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
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If the base version is not a ME, there are going to be a load of stunned and unhappy Vette addicts. I've seen some talk of a v6 twin turbo offering but not even a mention of any offering not being ME. Hope you're wrong but I suppose nothing is out of the question at this point. If you look at the renderings and the camo testing videos, with that shortened front, it doesn't even look like they could package the current engine in there. That is a mid engine silhouette.
they can offer different lines...i find it tough their going be able to hit 55k on a mid engine car...unless there going to mass produce it like a mustang.

not every vette owner cares if the car is mid engine...some people just like the vette because of the looks and the v8.

if i were gm i would keep the c7 platform with its paid off tooling and platform and change the styling, improve the interior and have it start at 45k-75k front engine. Have a mid engine variant 80-500k

but if gm can find away to make a mid engine for 55-60k then i'll be impressed

From a business stand point...it makes more sense to amortize the cost of the c8 development over a wide range of models and a wider range of price points. Look at what BMW does with its various 3 /5/7 series platforms
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      07-02-2019, 02:08 PM   #17
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they can offer different lines...i find it tough their going be able to hit 55k on a mid engine car...unless there going to mass produce it like a mustang.

not every vette owner cares if the car is mid engine...some people just like the vette because of the looks and the v8.

if i were gm i would keep the c7 platform with its paid off tooling and platform and change the styling, improve the interior and have it start at 45k-75k front engine. Have a mid engine variant 80-500k

but if gm can find away to make a mid engine for 55-60k then i'll be impressed
LOL. I think 55k is a little optimistic.. Most sources Ive viewed position it between $65k and $70k... There is so much wild speculation going on we're going to just have to sit tight for another 2 weeks.

One thing that seems a certainty is that no stick shift will be offered.
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      07-02-2019, 02:11 PM   #18
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LOL. I think 55k is a little optimistic.. Most sources Ive viewed position it between $65k and $70k... There is so much wild speculation going on we're going to just have to sit tight for another 2 weeks.

One thing that seems a certainty is that no stick shift will be offered.
either way i think its success will really depend on how good its lease is. there's a lot of great cars in the 60k+ range of cars.
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      07-04-2019, 03:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
they can offer different lines...i find it tough their going be able to hit 55k on a mid engine car...unless there going to mass produce it like a mustang.

not every vette owner cares if the car is mid engine...some people just like the vette because of the looks and the v8.

if i were gm i would keep the c7 platform with its paid off tooling and platform and change the styling, improve the interior and have it start at 45k-75k front engine. Have a mid engine variant 80-500k

but if gm can find away to make a mid engine for 55-60k then i'll be impressed
LOL. I think 55k is a little optimistic.. Most sources Ive viewed position it between $65k and $70k... There is so much wild speculation going on we're going to just have to sit tight for another 2 weeks.

One thing that seems a certainty is that no stick shift will be offered.
Probably better deals though on this car than any new m2.
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      07-04-2019, 05:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
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LOL. I think 55k is a little optimistic.. Most sources Ive viewed position it between $65k and $70k... There is so much wild speculation going on we're going to just have to sit tight for another 2 weeks.

One thing that seems a certainty is that no stick shift will be offered.
If I had to guess this may run similar to the C7 where early model years GM eats the cost a bit to keep it a "small" price increase from the previous generation then increases it yearly to a more neutral level. If I remember correctly the C7 Base started out around 51K and now is around 56K. I could see mid to high-60's but ending up at low-mid 70's by the time the model is done with.
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      07-06-2019, 09:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
they can offer different lines...i find it tough their going be able to hit 55k on a mid engine car...unless there going to mass produce it like a mustang.

not every vette owner cares if the car is mid engine...some people just like the vette because of the looks and the v8.

if i were gm i would keep the c7 platform with its paid off tooling and platform and change the styling, improve the interior and have it start at 45k-75k front engine. Have a mid engine variant 80-500k

but if gm can find away to make a mid engine for 55-60k then i'll be impressed

From a business stand point...it makes more sense to amortize the cost of the c8 development over a wide range of models and a wider range of price points. Look at what BMW does with its various 3 /5/7 series platforms
Porsche sells the base 718 for $57k exported to the US. I think Chevrolet can get the pricing under $60k for the base if they want to. The Corvette has been providing 911 performance at Cayman prices for some time now.
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      07-08-2019, 05:45 AM   #22
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there is a rear-end leak thread going on at CF dot com.. ohhhh boy..

I'll say this..

it's a tough task for the Corvette designers. They are of course budget constrained, and they are of course, part of Chevrolet. It's tough trying to make something exotic looking with Chevy budget.. so it ends up looking.. well... Chevyish..

I think it will end up growing on people. C7 rear caused uproar and people got over it and it sold in pretty good numbers.

The proof will be in the puddin (how it performs/drives). We have to wait on that a bit more.

I want it to be a good car. It's better for all of us if it is.
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