[atruong247]

castrol 0w40. Switched from the bmw 0w30.

[n8dgr84]

Looks like Quaker State Euro 5W-40 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 are the exact same motor oil:

Quaker State Euro 5W-40: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...d17f3428b0.pdf
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40: https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...ca6b02d1a3.pdf

QS is often cheaper so maybe that is a good option to save a little $ for fuel

[doughboy]

No need to get hung up about using a bmw LL approved oil. That's not a particularly high spec and is aimed primarily at extended 2yr service intervals. (LL = long life) and low sulphur for emissions.

The LL certification is mainly a marketing excercise for the brand's that will pay BMW $$$ to use the LL cert.

Any quality full synthetic is more than good enough especially if you change oil more frequently as most of us probably do.

I use Fuchs (was silkolene) pro race r 5w30 full ester synthetic which is about as good as it gets but as its not LL approved its a good price.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by doughboy

No need to get hung up about using a bmw LL approved oil. That's not a particularly high spec and is aimed primarily at extended 2yr service intervals. (LL = long life) and low sulphur for emissions.

The LL certification is mainly a marketing excercise for the brand's that will pay BMW $$$ to use the LL cert.

Any quality full synthetic is more than good enough especially if you change oil more frequently as most of us probably do.

I use Fuchs (was silkolene) pro race r 5w30 full ester synthetic which is about as good as it gets but as its not LL approved its a good price.

Not true. Especially if you want them to honor your warranty if you have an issue and they happen to sample it or see that it looks obviously different.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by chris719

Not true. Especially if you want them to honor your warranty if you have an issue and they happen to sample it or see that it looks obviously different.

So they would not honour a warranty if I used a better oil than they specify?

Like to see that.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

So they would not honour a warranty if I used a better oil than they specify?

Like to see that.

Subaru does it all the time, wrong oil weight or no oil change reciepts. It's easy to win a case like that in court too because engine oil is the life blood of the car.


Also ll01 (stringent oxidation standards, timing chain test, hths requirement of 3.5 minimum, etc - mb 229m5 has a LSPI test and this certification generally is also present along side ll01 and Porsche a40 which is the crazy multiple hour nurburgring test for oil deg) isn't an obsolete money grab specification, I didn't want to comment on this because it's been discussed to death but look in the maintenance section I and edycol (oil expert who works in the industry, he is a real oil genius and knows alot about these specs) talk about it alot.



Also expensive oil =/= good oil, in many cases boutique oils are inferior to off the shelf oils like Castrol edge 0w40, Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40, and motul xcess gen 2 5w40.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

So they would not honour a warranty if I used a better oil than they specify?

Like to see that.

Ok I couldn't find the exact oil you stayed but this is the closest one:

https://www.fuchs.com/hu/en/product/...e-pro-s-5w-30/

1) I noticed zero disclosed specs even things like pour point, flash point, viscosity etc.

2) zero manufacturer approvals, so this leads me to believe it's a race oil not suitable for long duration street use this might be like motul's sport or 300v meant for track use and that's it. This means it could lack the proper additives, detergents, poor oxidation (likely due to its high Pao and ester content), etc. I also saw an old post on BITOG that's hths was 3.22 I'm not sure if this is true but if it is then it's even below bmw's spec. So yeah probably a bad idea to run this oil if it's the case, despite it's heavy ester and Pao base stock the sheer strength isn't up to par for some reason. The 5w40 was said to have a 4.07 hths which so really good.

So maybe the 30 weight version is supposed to be a low weight low viscosity oil to create as minimal drag as possible on the crank to prevent parasitic drag for the absolute most performance during racing conditions thus zero regards for engine wear. Hence low hths, this would be bad news for a street car where you want the protection and for the motor to last and why bmw and pretty much all euro car manufacturers like Porsche and MB in their performance certifications mandate a minimum hths of 3.5. so if you use any random oil that doesn't have ll01 and your motor blows and bmw asks for receipts and does an oil analysis they'll find out you have a non LL01 oil that has a low hths rating you can kiss your warranty good bye. If you bring them to court it'll be an easy win for them because it's an oil far out of their spec.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...-ester.202888/



I'm not too familiar with this oil and due to the lack of voa, tds etc it's hard for me to make a judgement. But based on what I see so far I really don't think it's suitable for your bmw and something like a Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 would be miles better (or in Europe shell helix ultra 5w40)... This is why certifications matter.

If you can't get LL01 get something with alteadt mb229.5 and Porsche A40. Castrol edge 0w40 has alot of pao as well + the mb229.5 and Porsche a40 certifications and a high hths. Mobil 1 0w40 has high Pao too but it's saps are too high for a di based bmw engine so it's best to steer clear. So imo get either: Castrol edge 0w30, 0w40, Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 (on Europe get shell helix ultra 5w40), or motul xcess gen 2 5w40.

[doughboy]

@F87source

I appreciate your points on this and I agree that boutique oils are usually not all that great, but Fuchs previously Silkolene are one of the the worlds leading lubricant specialists.

We have to use LL-04 in the EU which from what I understand the differences over LL-01 are to protect diesel particulate filters since 2004.

I did have the spec sheet for this oil but I can't find it. I used to use the 5w/40 until the 5w30 came out more recently..

I've requested a new spec sheet to have look...

EDIT they just emailed back in 15 minutes!, the 5w30 has a HTHS minimum of 3.5 and it meets API SN plus specs but not long life requirments of ACEA C3

As I change the oil every 6 months I'm not too fused about the 2 year oil service spec..

[chris719]

Originally Posted by doughboy

So they would not honour a warranty if I used a better oil than they specify?

Like to see that.

You're paying more for what is most likely a worse oil, but hey.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by chris719

You're paying more for what is most likely a worse oil, but hey.

Point taken, it seems to have gone up by about 50% in the last 6 months.

I just used my last stock from 2020 at a service last week, so I'll be reconsidering the choice for next service.

And I've learned plenty about oil today

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

@F87source

I appreciate your points on this and I agree that boutique oils are usually not all that great, but Fuchs previously Silkolene are one of the the worlds leading lubricant specialists.

We have to use LL-04 in the EU which from what I understand the differences over LL-01 are to protect diesel particulate filters since 2004.

I did have the spec sheet for this oil but I can't find it. I used to use the 5w/40 until the 5w30 came out more recently..

I've requested a new spec sheet to have look...

EDIT they just emailed back in 15 minutes!, the 5w30 has a HTHS minimum of 3.5 and it meets API SN plus specs but not long life requirments of ACEA C3

As I change the oil every 6 months I'm not too fused about the 2 year oil service spec..

Ok that's good, the BITOG data is from 2023 so it's out dated.

I still don't think you'll get warranty because the additive package might not be up to spec.


Either way if you don't care about bmws certifications I would rather run Castrol edge 0w40, alot of paos and it has MB 229.5 and Porsche a40 for a really cheap price. No need to spend alot for oil, most of the time it's not necessary.

[doughboy]

Thanks.

My warranty is up in 3 months and I'm mapped and modded and non BMW serviced throughout so an engine claim was never going to be good for me.

I'm interested in what you say about Mobil 1 0w40 being not good for DI?

I used that in my Merc E63 5.5TT as it was the right MB spec and that was a DI car?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Thanks.

My warranty is up in 3 months and I'm mapped and modded and non BMW serviced throughout so an engine claim was never going to be good for me.

I'm interested in what you say about Mobil 1 0w40 being not good for DI?

I used that in my Merc E63 5.5TT as it was the right MB spec and that was a DI car?

Because mobile 1 oil is a high saps oil, it is not optimal for a DI car due to the potential for creating carbon build up. That is the common logic I keep hearing from the more knowledgeable folks like edy.


You merc probably allowed for it due to it having the correct specs for the engine but not factoring in carbon build up. Not many people really factor in carbon build up so it's more of a precaution to make sure you minimize carbon build up as best as possible. Essentially you use top tier fuel vs. non top tier fuel to keep the fuel system as clean as possible, same with oil.



Since you're in Europe I really suggest shell helix ultra, it is really really really dang good stuff from what I hear (edges out PPE) and I would run it if I had the chance. But it is not cheap/easy to get in Canada.

[doughboy]

The Ultra 5w30 is LL04, with the diesel coverage.

The 5w40 seems a better oil but isn't LL04 because no diesel coverage, has LL01 though.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

The Ultra 5w30 is LL04, with the diesel coverage.

The 5w40 seems a better oil but isn't LL04 because no diesel coverage, has LL01 though.

LL01 and LL04 are mitually exclusive certifications they will never be present together.

Since you are in Europe your fuel is really good so LL04 alone is fine IIRC. Personally I would step up in weight to a 5w40 because it does offer a bit more protection in terms of sheer strength, however it isn't necessary.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by F87source

LL01 and LL04 are mitually exclusive certifications they will never be present together.

Since you are in Europe your fuel is really good so LL04 alone is fine IIRC. Personally I would step up in weight to a 5w40 because it does offer a bit more protection in terms of sheer strength, however it isn't necessary.

Yes i get that with LL01 and LL04.

What i mean is LL04 is EU spec for our cars but as we're a petrol engine we could use LL01 because LL04 is about additional diesel DPf protection not needed for S55.

LL01 as you use, is perfect for the S55 but just not BMWs EU decision. They want one oil for all rathet than different for petrol and diesel.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Yes i get that with LL01 and LL04.

What i mean is LL04 is EU spec for our cars but as we're a petrol engine we could use LL01 because LL04 is about additional diesel DPf protection not needed for S55.

LL01 as you use, is perfect for the S55 but just not BMWs EU decision. They want one oil for all rathet than different for petrol and diesel.

Yeah true, then get the 5w40 helix ultra it is ll01 and pretty much designed for the S55 and petrol motors only.

[doughboy]

Yep. And the LL01 5w40 helix ultra here is only £36/ 5litres with an extra 1litre top up bottle gift!

That's a better price / litre than the oil I put in the lawnmower!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Yep. And the LL01 5w40 helix ultra here is only £36/ 5litres with an extra 1litre top up bottle gift!

That's a better price / litre than the oil I put in the lawnmower!

Very nice!


For me PPE 5w40 is about $29-$32 CAD/5L, for Americans Quakerstate euro is $19USD/5L

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by F87source

Very nice!


For me PPE 5w40 is about $29-$32 CAD/5L, for Americans Quakerstate euro is $19USD/5L

Woh, that's really cheap. EU taxes to blame I'm sure.

Here Edge 5W30 LL04 is £46 / 4 litres = 80CAD/4L!
Edge LL01 is £54/4L!

Funny how the castrols are so expensive when BMW "reccommend" them...

Reading on BITOG folks saying the Helix Ultra 5W40 is a "full SAPS" oil? Is that meaning high ie not really ideal for DI engines?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Woh, that's really cheap. EU taxes to blame I'm sure.

Here Edge 5W30 LL04 is £46 / 4 litres = 80CAD/4L!
Edge LL01 is £54/4L!

Funny how the castrols are so expensive when BMW "reccommend" them...

Reading on BITOG folks saying the Helix Ultra 5W40 is a "full SAPS" oil? Is that meaning high ie not really ideal for DI engines?

Yeah it's pretty decently cheap here in Canada, it's even cheaper in the USA, and when we get the $10 - $20 off rebate per 5L jug then it's pretty much dirt cheap here.

Edycol would know more than me but:

I don't think their new formulation (oils change alot iirc 2020 was a new formulation) with LL01 is full saps anymore I believe it's all low saps now. Also It's very similar to Pennzoil which is a very clean oil and with shell's gas to liquid technology NOACK (oils volatility and evaporation which causes carbon build up so higher noack is worse) is very low so it shouldn't be a problem for DI engines. Only Mobil1 0w40 out of the oils we were talking about stuck with really high saps iirc, and that's why it's not really recommended. Even ams oil move their European FS 0w40 which uses to have full saps down to mid to low saps. Because I reckon carbon build up was becoming an issue on new di cars.


Trust me this is some solid oil and you will not have a worry using it, and it's LL01 so bmw put some thought into making sure it wouldn't be an issue with the engine.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah it's pretty decently cheap here in Canada, it's even cheaper in the USA, and when we get the $10 - $20 off rebate per 5L jug then it's pretty much dirt cheap here.

Edycol would know more than me but:

I don't think their new formulation (oils change alot iirc 2020 was a new formulation) with LL01 is full saps anymore I believe it's all low saps now. Also It's very similar to Pennzoil which is a very clean oil and with shell's gas to liquid technology NOACK (oils volatility and evaporation which causes carbon build up so higher noack is worse) is very low so it shouldn't be a problem for DI engines. Only Mobil1 0w40 out of the oils we were talking about stuck with really high saps iirc, and that's why it's not really recommended. Even ams oil move their European FS 0w40 which uses to have full saps down to mid to low saps. Because I reckon carbon build up was becoming an issue on new di cars.


Trust me this is some solid oil and you will not have a worry using it, and it's LL01 so bmw put some thought into making sure it wouldn't be an issue with the engine.

Thanks for info. I'll think ill buy up some of this while it's on the extra free litre offer.