04-06-2022, 08:07 PM | #23 | |||
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04-06-2022, 08:38 PM | #24 | |
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Oh yeah the water tank should be baffled too if you want to track the car, because high G forces can starve the pump when the water level is low. This means even if you still have water in the tank, it won't be able to spray because the water is being pushed by the G forces away from the pump pick up
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04-06-2022, 08:42 PM | #25 | |
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04-06-2022, 08:54 PM | #26 | |
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So yeah I'd recommend aquamist 100%, unless you have a really complex system like if you want dual fast acting valves so the second one will spray the intercooler or radiators, and if you want dual pumps then you'd have to go with torqbyte which will be able to controll all of that, otherwise for a simple multi nozzle single fast acting valve setup it's better to go aquamist imo.
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04-06-2022, 09:08 PM | #27 | |||
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Here is the thread on the Wagner Evo 3 - it requires the removal of the brace AND additional trimming. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1727351 I already gave my thoughts on the EVO 3 in another thread: Quote:
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04-06-2022, 09:32 PM | #28 | |
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The M235i brace is used, and the bottom portion of the M2 brace is reused. No lag, mounts solidly to the crash bumper, comes with all the pipes. It averaged 20-25F above ambient for me on the track during back to back laps over the weekend on a 490whp car. So far, I haven’t seen real on track data from anyone with as much whp that presents a better IC package. |
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04-06-2022, 09:44 PM | #29 | |
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Oops my bad, I didn't recall the evo 3 requiring the brace to be removed, I just remembered that they supplied a new crash beam. I am not sure what the CTS IC requires to be removed, but they listed m2 compatability, but if it does hit the brace then yeah it would need to be removed... But at some point, when running in extremely hot ambient temperatures even a race core intercooler and its low temperature delta will not be enough. Say a race core can keep the iat delta at 10C, then at 35C ambient temps your iats will be at 45C and that will still mean timing is pulled. So there is a point of diminishing returns between just packing a massive intercooler and the amount of iat supression you get not being worth it anymore. At some point it would be more effective to go with a smaller intercooler like a csf or D088 and pair it with water injection. This way you don't pack a bunch of weight and block air flow to the radiator for minisucle iat gains. When ambient temps get hot enough, the better solution would be water injection the m4 gts follows this trend. Even better would be to utilize E85 and its evaporative cooling effect, this way despite the higher iats you can still force the car to run full timing without issue.
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04-06-2022, 09:45 PM | #30 | |
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04-06-2022, 09:48 PM | #31 | ||
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How big is your sample size? I only know of you tracking your car with an upgraded turbo. But here is a 2 gear run (3rd and 4th) VRSF - ZERO IAT deviation. Quote:
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04-06-2022, 09:51 PM | #32 | |
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Should be able to figure out what’s up with the car next week so can get her back on track. |
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04-06-2022, 09:56 PM | #33 | ||
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04-06-2022, 09:56 PM | #34 | |
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I haven’t seen anyone with VRSF R track data on a high whp car, but with as hard I push the car I wouldn’t want that 33lb brick only held by the bottom bolts around the track. And, single pulls are one thing, track time temp stress is another. All this being said, I’m sure it’s good bang for the buck for a street IC. Last edited by ZM2; 04-06-2022 at 10:08 PM.. |
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04-06-2022, 09:58 PM | #35 | |
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Will find out what’s up tho! |
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04-06-2022, 10:11 PM | #36 | ||
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1) Despite self tapping screws that go into plastic (like what holds up the intercooler) being quite strong and capable of holding up to 80ish pounds per screw, I wouldn't like to trust that either. Because the more you remove and reinstall those screws the weaker those plastic threads get and that is sketchy. I am planning on extra supports on my bms intercooler just in case, even though it is not that heavy and I don't track anymore. 2) Exactly track stress is a different thing, the low speed scenarios where air flow is limited is a real killer as heat soak built up in those scenarios may not have enough time to disspate when you're on the straights - especially if it is a low speed track. This is why alot of track guys like tube and fin intercoolers with high surface area, sure it heats up quicker but it also cools down quicker too. Higher mass bar and plate coolers is not always the answer, it might do well for single pull drag racers, but it is a problem for track guys especially if the mass is extremely high. Quote:
Yeah hopefully you can figure it out! But defintely try filters next.
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04-06-2022, 10:28 PM | #37 | |
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It’s also silly - the CSF is 27lbs and comes with the worst mounting of all the cores here - that’s not taxing on the mounts, but 5lbs extra is? It’s overblown to the point of ridiculousness. To the second part - OpS logs in this thread show clear IAT movement https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1727351 - compared to the VRSF logs in similar conditions https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9 The Wagner is a nice product, but nothing I’ve seen shows it’s better than a Bar and Plate Core.
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04-06-2022, 10:44 PM | #38 | |
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In regards to the wagner, that's because there has been no data displayed about the ability to shed heat, and physics would back the fact that a lower mass object of the same material will lose heat faster. This is what makes the wagner intercooler so good, it is able to keep up with the larger high mass bar and plate intercoolers (which have very high mass make them heat up slower) over single pulls yet it still utilizes a tube and fin intercooler (which is known to heat up faster yet in these tests is still performs just as good as the VRSF) designed to shed heat fast and not retain a bunch of thermal energy like a bar and plate intercooler would. This makes it more ideal for track use.
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04-06-2022, 10:52 PM | #39 | |
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Until I see someone log a VRSF R on track with >475whp, still gonna say I haven’t seen anything perform better than my Evo3. Last edited by ZM2; 04-06-2022 at 11:32 PM.. |
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04-07-2022, 02:01 AM | #40 |
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If cost wasn't a concern or cutting/trimming the bumper, I would do the Wagner Evo III. Go big or go home.
I'm a believer in the quality of Wagner's products and R&D. The intercooler has the front brace which I like, it's absolutely massive, doesn't weigh too much from what I've heard & it comes with chargepipes.
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04-07-2022, 06:51 PM | #42 | |
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It defintely doesn't look fun and there is alot of stuff to remove... I'm glad I have a 6mt especially after looking at this job. This would probably be an optimal time to get a billet dct cover if you wanted one, it will expand the capacity of the dct which will help with prolonging the time it take to heat up and the aluminium covers have fins to disapate heat.
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04-07-2022, 10:38 PM | #43 | |
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04-07-2022, 10:48 PM | #44 |
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I'll pm you so we don't clog up the thread
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