07-13-2021, 11:59 PM | #45 |
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If you believe that I’ve got a bridge to sell you, lol. I’ve driven F80 with carbon roof and with moonroof and it’s the same steering feel.
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07-14-2021, 03:20 AM | #47 | |
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07-14-2021, 05:45 AM | #48 |
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F87 CS roof is structural and made of a different material. F80 is cosmetic. So yes, you wouldn't notice any difference on that model. I don't know how much difference each little bit makes but I'm sure it adds up in some way or another. The parts bin comments are amusing. Not sure which bin the one of a kind likely never to be repeated roof came from?
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07-14-2021, 08:01 AM | #49 |
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I am not a structural engineer, but the CF roof is stiffer than the metal roof? Either way, I've never heard of steering response being better by a stiffer roof. Perhaps, because the car is lighter higher up, yea that would make sense.
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07-14-2021, 08:15 AM | #50 | |
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Having said that, I don't know how any driver from a magazine could directly attribute a driving characteristic to that specifically.
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07-14-2021, 09:26 AM | #51 | |
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Seriously, EPS is a force feedback software controlled system. The roof has NOTHING to do with this. The steering feedback is artificially created by an electric motor. Or perhaps more accurately I should say that the assist is completely controlled by software, so your entire experience other than the behavior when assist is minimal (like when unwinding) is completely defined by software. Dramatic differences exist if you've tried flashing different EPS settings on an F8x from original software to ZCP or CS. Last edited by chris719; 07-14-2021 at 09:56 AM.. |
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07-14-2021, 09:28 AM | #52 | |
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Last edited by chris719; 07-14-2021 at 09:35 AM.. |
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07-14-2021, 09:37 AM | #53 | ||
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I believe you are wrong. There are metal support crossbars underneath the carbon fiber skin on a 92 and F series M3/4 that are not present on the M2cs. The carbon fiber for the CS provide all of the structure. The carbon fiber roof of earlier M cars does not.
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07-14-2021, 09:42 AM | #54 | |
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07-14-2021, 09:44 AM | #55 | |
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Actually, you can look here to see that the F8x does have a CFRP roof bow according to BMW marketing materials anyway: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=892746 CFRP roof for both M3 and M4 saves 11 pounds (5kg) on M3 saves more than 13.2 pounds (6kg) on M4 CFRP roof bow There may be other metal elements in there, however. Last edited by chris719; 07-14-2021 at 09:51 AM.. |
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07-14-2021, 10:01 AM | #56 |
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I think the biggest difference is that roof bows (whether metal or CF) provide rollover protection but because they are not triangulated they do not provide any torsional rigidity to prevent twisting of the passenger compartment. The solid structure of the F87CS carbon fiber roof, which is bonded along the entire roof rail on both sides, does provide torsional rigidity in addition to roll over protection.
As noted, there is no way someone could accurately detect the contribution this makes to overall handling performance relative to other factors (tires, alignment, EPS programming, adaptive dampers) but it is part of the overall package.
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07-14-2021, 01:35 PM | #57 |
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Why does cross bracing, strut tower bar, bushing changes, stiffer sidewall tires, roll cages, etc all change steering feel. It's due to the effective spring rate between the chassis and the road (not referencing the suspension springs). Stiffening the roof prevents twist in the body and translates more fidelity and overall stiffness.
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07-18-2021, 09:51 PM | #61 | |
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That said, I'll look forward to one last M manual with the G87 CS. Will then having a matching pair (last/best DCT and last/hopefully best manual) before the dawn of electric continuous drivetrain gear shifting. |
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07-19-2021, 11:50 PM | #62 | |
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07-20-2021, 11:24 AM | #63 |
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After 5k miles with the Pilot 4s (bought the car in NJ in the winter - so okay for the time) I made the swap to Cup 2's and... it's a totally different car! The grip from the tires makes the suspension feel softer (sport and sport plus are actually usable now), while the steering feels a touch heavier but far more precise (now a comfort setting makes sense). The nose feels sharper/lighter and turn-in is greatly improved along with confidence. A few canyon blasts (now back in Socal) and it's quite a bit more difficult to kick the back end around (in a good way). I thought the CS was good before. It's absolutely incredible with Cup 2's.
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07-20-2021, 12:50 PM | #64 | |
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But to the other quoted point, several owners of competitions that have had better wheels and tires have still said the CS on the PSS tire was still a marked improvement in steering feel etc over the comp.
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07-20-2021, 05:33 PM | #65 |
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I believe it also affects the tides in Newfoundland.
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07-20-2021, 06:21 PM | #66 |
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I believe it also affects the tides in Newfoundland.[/QUOTE]
I've had 6 bimmers now and y'all must be right - it's the cup 2's I don't have on my CS that makes it the better steering car than most others I've driven. |
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