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      04-17-2021, 07:35 PM   #1
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CFRP roof of my M2 CS features a deformity - Replacement proposed

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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some feedback and advice. I noticed today that the cfrp roof on my m2cs has a ripple/bulge deformity in it. It's hard to see in pictures but if you run your finger across the top of the roof you can definitely feel the bulge. Any other cs owners come across this? I park it in the garage at home and in a parking deck at work so it's not really exposed to any harsh conditions. I've made an appointment at my local bmw service center to get it checked out on Tuesday 04/20/21. I'll also try and call bmw USA customer support on Monday. I would think any repairs would be covered under warranty but it's scary to think that my whole roof might need to get replaced and I'm really bummed out about this. I'll follow up once I get more info from bmw.

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      04-18-2021, 01:49 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.lor View Post
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some feedback and advice. I noticed today that the cfrp roof on my m2cs has a ripple/bulge deformity in it. It's hard to see in pictures but if you run your finger across the top of the roof you can definitely feel the bulge. Any other cs owners come across this? I park it in the garage at home and in a parking deck at work so it's not really exposed to any harsh conditions. I've made an appointment at my local bmw service center to get it checked out on Tuesday 04/20/21. I'll also try and call bmw USA customer support on Monday. I would think any repairs would be covered under warranty but it's scary to think that my whole roof might need to get replaced and I'm really bummed out about this. I'll follow up once I get more info from bmw.
I would leave that alone (Unless structural, but not likely). Any repair wouldn't be worth it. Replacement is no small deal.
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      04-18-2021, 01:22 PM   #3
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Man thatís a little scary what happened to your roof this early? Hopefully just a factory defect issue Iíd really like to understand what caused it
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      04-18-2021, 01:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
I would leave that alone (Unless structural, but not likely). Any repair wouldn't be worth it. Replacement is no small deal.
Leave it alone? Thatís a significant issue- no way you leave it on your car.
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      04-18-2021, 01:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.lor View Post
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some feedback and advice. I noticed today that the cfrp roof on my m2cs has a ripple/bulge deformity in it. It's hard to see in pictures but if you run your finger across the top of the roof you can definitely feel the bulge. Any other cs owners come across this? I park it in the garage at home and in a parking deck at work so it's not really exposed to any harsh conditions. I've made an appointment at my local bmw service center to get it checked out on Tuesday 04/20/21. I'll also try and call bmw USA customer support on Monday. I would think any repairs would be covered under warranty but it's scary to think that my whole roof might need to get replaced and I'm really bummed out about this. I'll follow up once I get more info from bmw.
Peculiar that this managed to slip through BMW quality control.

As the CS roof on the M2 CS is a structural part of the car, I doubt that it will be replaced. You don't want that. My guess: you will be told that there is no adverse functional impact and that it is what it is.

Ask your dealer to check whether a "PuMA" exists about the M2 CS roof. A BMW "PuMA" = "Problem und MaŖnahmenmanagement Aftersales" = "Problem and Measures management Aftersales" = a worldwide BMW database of all reported problems and most with the their appropriate fixes. It's BMW's online technical hotline for dealers. Info is considered to be confidential. If an issue is not reported yet, the dealer fills out a form for submittal to BMW's technical gurus and subsequently they send back a response outlining what BMW wants the dealer to do to fix the car. Sometimes it's "replace such-and-such" and sometimes they ask for more diagnostic info.

Generally speaking, according to insider info, BMW is not amused about the outcome of the M2 CS roof, even to the point that it will never be used again on future BMW M cars. Let's see if BMW changes its mind over time.
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      04-18-2021, 04:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Peculiar that this managed to slip through BMW quality control.

As the CS roof on the M2 CS is a structural part of the car, I doubt that it will be replaced. You don't want that. My guess: you will be told that there is no adverse functional impact and that it is what it is.

Ask your dealer to check whether a "PuMA" exists about the M2 CS roof. A BMW "PuMA" = "Problem und MaŖnahmenmanagement Aftersales" = "Problem and Measures management Aftersales" = a worldwide BMW database of all reported problems and most with the their appropriate fixes. It's BMW's online technical hotline for dealers. Info is considered to be confidential. If an issue is not reported yet, the dealer fills out a form for submittal to BMW's technical gurus and subsequently they send back a response outlining what BMW wants the dealer to do to fix the car. Sometimes it's "replace such-and-such" and sometimes they ask for more diagnostic info.

Generally speaking, according to insider info, BMW is not amused about the outcome of the M2 CS roof, even to the point that it will never be used again on future BMW M cars. Let's see if BMW changes its mind over time.
You'd be surprised how often and how easy it is to replace a roof panel on certain vehicles.
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      04-18-2021, 04:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
it will never be used again on future BMW M cars.
I hope thatís true. The roof looks incredibly cool and really adds to the special feel of the car. It would be awesome if our cars are the only road-going ///M cars to ever get it.
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      04-18-2021, 05:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
Leave it alone? Thatís a significant issue- no way you leave it on your car.
I looked at the pictures again. I stand corrected. Totally missed the waves.
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      04-18-2021, 07:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
Leave it alone? Thatís a significant issue- no way you leave it on your car.
If it's not impacting the structure and the paint is fine, i'm not sure it's worth getting fixed as the only fix is replacing it. Replacing that roof, i'm not sure anyone knows right now if it's remotely possible without the car being declared totaled.
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      04-18-2021, 07:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchart View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
Leave it alone? That’s a significant issue- no way you leave it on your car.
If it's not impacting the structure and the paint is fine, i'm not sure it's worth getting fixed as the only fix is replacing it. Replacing that roof, i'm not sure anyone knows right now if it's remotely possible without the car being declared totaled.
Not your/our/his problem though. Let the BMWNA make it right, and if not, buy it back. No way I'd allow that big of an imperfection in a new car and will definitely hurt resale.
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      04-18-2021, 08:00 PM   #11
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CF roof repair of an F82 M4 - According to the repair shop:
"After 8 years in business, I think we've finally found the absolute worst possible failure related to sun damage we've ever seen. What started as a small spot of blistering grew into what we'd consider a "catastrophic failure" of biblical proportions. After several years of exposure to solar radiation (UV Ray's), the top layer of the epoxy completely, and effortlessly, delaminated from the actual carbon fiber. Folks, we've NEVER seen a layer peel off with our fingers like this before and it came off as if it were a bad nail polish job, which is absolutely nuts. Stay tuned for the post-production fix."

"We actually fixed it by adding an entirely new layer of carbon fiber. Long and tedious process, but totally worth it!"
Part 1 (00:55):


Part 2 (00:30):


Part 3 (01:06):


Part 4 (00:40):


Delaminating CF - Some more:





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      04-18-2021, 10:54 PM   #12
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Did this slip through quality control or did this happen after?
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      04-19-2021, 08:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Peculiar that this managed to slip through BMW quality control.

Generally speaking, according to insider info, BMW is not amused about the outcome of the M2 CS roof, even to the point that it will never be used again on future BMW M cars. Let's see if BMW changes its mind over time.
So they're aware. This is not good news. It means it happens a lot.
Uh oh.
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      04-19-2021, 08:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.lor View Post
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some feedback and advice. I noticed today that the cfrp roof on my m2cs has a ripple/bulge deformity in it. It's hard to see in pictures but if you run your finger across the top of the roof you can definitely feel the bulge. Any other cs owners come across this? I park it in the garage at home and in a parking deck at work so it's not really exposed to any harsh conditions. I've made an appointment at my local bmw service center to get it checked out on Tuesday 04/20/21. I'll also try and call bmw USA customer support on Monday. I would think any repairs would be covered under warranty but it's scary to think that my whole roof might need to get replaced and I'm really bummed out about this. I'll follow up once I get more info from bmw.
Yikes! Was this something that developed over time or do you think it was delivered this way, but you just didn't notice it?
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      04-19-2021, 09:03 AM   #15
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It would have to be that way from when the part was made. The piece would crack if that happened after the fact. I doubt there is anything wrong with the structure of it, or the car. It's just incredible the piece made it through QC
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      04-19-2021, 09:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robopp View Post
Not your/our/his problem though. Let the BMWNA make it right, and if not, buy it back. No way I'd allow that big of an imperfection in a new car and will definitely hurt resale.
If you want the car new and there are none left.. It's irrelevant. You either keep the car with it or you don't and you don't have a M2CS.
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      04-19-2021, 09:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
CF roof repair of an F82 M4 - According to the repair shop:
"After 8 years in business, I think we've finally found the absolute worst possible failure related to sun damage we've ever seen. What started as a small spot of blistering grew into what we'd consider a "catastrophic failure" of biblical proportions. After several years of exposure to solar radiation (UV Ray's), the top layer of the epoxy completely, and effortlessly, delaminated from the actual carbon fiber. Folks, we've NEVER seen a layer peel off with our fingers like this before and it came off as if it were a bad nail polish job, which is absolutely nuts. Stay tuned for the post-production fix."

"We actually fixed it by adding an entirely new layer of carbon fiber. Long and tedious process, but totally worth it!"
This is why it's critical to PPF the roof. It'll prevent the UV damage along with the damage from rock strikes.

The big issue with carbon is once you get a rock strike through the epoxy, it's only a matter of time before you have complete delamination due to the fact that moisture is now getting into the entire panel underneath the epoxy. The UV only accelerates the process.
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      04-19-2021, 10:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wah View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.lor View Post
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some feedback and advice. I noticed today that the cfrp roof on my m2cs has a ripple/bulge deformity in it. It's hard to see in pictures but if you run your finger across the top of the roof you can definitely feel the bulge. Any other cs owners come across this? I park it in the garage at home and in a parking deck at work so it's not really exposed to any harsh conditions. I've made an appointment at my local bmw service center to get it checked out on Tuesday 04/20/21. I'll also try and call bmw USA customer support on Monday. I would think any repairs would be covered under warranty but it's scary to think that my whole roof might need to get replaced and I'm really bummed out about this. I'll follow up once I get more info from bmw.
Yikes! Was this something that developed over time or do you think it was delivered this way, but you just didn't notice it?
It was fine when I took delivery. I noticed it after I had left it out in the sun for a few hours while I was visiting friends. The roof panel was very hot to the touch. I'm thinking the carbon warped because of the heat? I didn't think this could happen, how does bmw expect us to enjoy our cars if we can't even leave it outside for a few hours.
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      04-19-2021, 10:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.lor View Post
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some feedback and advice. I noticed today that the cfrp roof on my m2cs has a ripple/bulge deformity in it. It's hard to see in pictures but if you run your finger across the top of the roof you can definitely feel the bulge. Any other cs owners come across this? I park it in the garage at home and in a parking deck at work so it's not really exposed to any harsh conditions. I've made an appointment at my local bmw service center to get it checked out on Tuesday 04/20/21. I'll also try and call bmw USA customer support on Monday. I would think any repairs would be covered under warranty but it's scary to think that my whole roof might need to get replaced and I'm really bummed out about this. I'll follow up once I get more info from bmw.
Peculiar that this managed to slip through BMW quality control.

As the CS roof on the M2 CS is a structural part of the car, I doubt that it will be replaced. You don't want that. My guess: you will be told that there is no adverse functional impact and that it is what it is.

Ask your dealer to check whether a "PuMA" exists about the M2 CS roof. A BMW "PuMA" = "Problem und Maßnahmenmanagement Aftersales" = "Problem and Measures management Aftersales" = a worldwide BMW database of all reported problems and most with the their appropriate fixes. It's BMW's online technical hotline for dealers. Info is considered to be confidential. If an issue is not reported yet, the dealer fills out a form for submittal to BMW's technical gurus and subsequently they send back a response outlining what BMW wants the dealer to do to fix the car. Sometimes it's "replace such-and-such" and sometimes they ask for more diagnostic info.

Generally speaking, according to insider info, BMW is not amused about the outcome of the M2 CS roof, even to the point that it will never be used again on future BMW M cars. Let's see if BMW changes its mind over time.
Thank you for all the helpful info!
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      04-19-2021, 12:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevesteve View Post
I realize you think this is how carbon fiber works because in a way it makes common sense, but I assure you this is not accurate.

In the aerospace world we are mostly concerned with low velocity impacts and mandate a lot of inspections to monitor all forms of damage. Short of cutting into your roof and pouring brake fluid or power steering fluid into it on a regular basis, you are never going to see a delam issue on your automotive roof from simple rock chips encountered on the road.

The wavy fibers are another matter. In plane kinking can have a pretty significant impact on strength and if these were present in any batch of CF a reasonable person was responsible for, that batch of CF would have been rejected. The impact here on our roofs is insignificant except for the reality that they represent a lack of attention to detail and quality control that is concerning for what else we might not be seeing elsewhere for other things.

Boeing has published a lot of interesting and in depth long term data on their use of CF in the 787 and they had a lot of cause for concern with their 787 dreamliner CF usage, but then they are a shitty company run by accountants and not engineers with aircraft slapped together by disgruntled workers in a race to the bottom in terms of labor costs spread across hundreds of smaller shops all over the country and now world.
That's great, however, experience with prior BMW CF roofs tells us otherwise. Go jump around in the other model forums on this website, or do some google searches.
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      04-19-2021, 01:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.lor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wah View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.lor View Post
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to get some feedback and advice. I noticed today that the cfrp roof on my m2cs has a ripple/bulge deformity in it. It's hard to see in pictures but if you run your finger across the top of the roof you can definitely feel the bulge. Any other cs owners come across this? I park it in the garage at home and in a parking deck at work so it's not really exposed to any harsh conditions. I've made an appointment at my local bmw service center to get it checked out on Tuesday 04/20/21. I'll also try and call bmw USA customer support on Monday. I would think any repairs would be covered under warranty but it's scary to think that my whole roof might need to get replaced and I'm really bummed out about this. I'll follow up once I get more info from bmw.
Yikes! Was this something that developed over time or do you think it was delivered this way, but you just didn't notice it?
It was fine when I took delivery. I noticed it after I had left it out in the sun for a few hours while I was visiting friends. The roof panel was very hot to the touch. I'm thinking the carbon warped because of the heat? I didn't think this could happen, how does bmw expect us to enjoy our cars if we can't even leave it outside for a few hours.
wow that's gotta be concerning for CS owners, sorry to hear about that. If simply parking in the sun has caused this as you suspect then yours surely won't be the only one to suffer this fate.
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      04-19-2021, 03:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYNick View Post
So they're aware. This is not good news. It means it happens a lot.
Uh oh.
See post #1 of the thread "BMW M2 CS CFRP roof weave issues: "Garching, we have a problem" ?".
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