[paradocs98]

This evening in the NY metro area and suburbs we’re getting our first major snowfall in three years. I was looking forward to putting my performance winter tires to use on the M2C—Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4s in 245/265, mounted on the stock wheels. But coming home from work in 4 or so inches of fresh snow was much more of a challenge than it should have been. The car struggled for traction, getting sideways very easily with the slightest throttle, and nearly got stuck at a stoplight on a slight incline. I made it home to my driveway, where I promptly got stuck before making it into the garage.

I’ve had multiple BMWs over the years as daily drivers, all doing just fine in snow with winter tires—E46 330Ci, 545i, E60 M5, E90 M3. All rear wheel drive, all with a decent amount of power. And they did a solid job in winter conditions with performance winter tires from Dunlop (Winter Sport 3), Pirelli (Sottozero), and Bridgestone (Blizzak). But the M2C on the Michelin Pilot Alpins was a fail today. What’s been the experience of other forum members?

[M Fifty]

Do all of them say 'Outside' on them?

[Brokenbones]

Sorry to hear. Have vikingcontact7 drove to work this morning in NYC, lots of unplowed areas, drifts or deep ruts. Decent traction except when highsided over deep drift/rut but slowly powered out.

Definitely why I went with studless winters... don’t need the false confidence of performance snows.

[VisualEcho]

To be perfectly honest, I don't expect the M2 to be any good in the snow, regardless of the tires. But that's just me. If we had real Winter's here, I'd buy a car for that.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by PrinceCity

Lol. I think all tires are meant for outside. I mean, I guess there are some indoor tracks, but it's rare.

I think he's referring to a mounting issue

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

I think he's referring to a mounting issue

This. They aren't directional, but they are asymmetric. So it's important to make sure they are mounted to the wheels correctly.

[3t3p]

How new is new do they have release compound on still?

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Do all of them say 'Outside' on them?

Yep--mounted correctly.

Originally Posted by Brokenbones

Sorry to hear. Have vikingcontact7 drove to work this morning in NYC, lots of unplowed areas, drifts or deep ruts. Decent traction except when highsided over deep drift/rut but slowly powered out.

Definitely why I went with studless winters... don’t need the false confidence of performance snows.

Those Vikingcontact7s look like the business. What size did you use--based on the Continental website, they're not made in the stock M2 245/265 19" sizes.

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

To be perfectly honest, I don't expect the M2 to be any good in the snow, regardless of the tires. But that's just me. If we had real Winter's here, I'd buy a car for that.

It's definitely a tradeoff. I've been lulled into a sense of complacency because we haven't had serious snow here in 3 years. And when we do get snow, it's generally cleared away within a day or two. But if you have to be out driving when the snow is quickly accumulating, performance winter tires (at least these Michelins) are apparently not as good as I had hoped. Serious compound, studless winter tires would definitely be better, but at the expense of squishy driving dynamics when the roads are dry. Fortunately we have an Acura SUV that got me to work easily this morning, despite its all-season tires. Which goes against my argument that a well-balanced rear-wheel drive car with proper winter tires is better in the snow than an SUV on all-seasons. The BMW on good snow tires is probably still better with turning and braking in snow, but the AWD SUV sure does get itself going much better...

Originally Posted by 3t3p

How new is new do they have release compound on still?

Good thought, but no, they have a couple thousand miles on them from last season. My first pucker experience with release compound was with a brand-new set of Nitto NT01s on my M3 several years ago on track. The first few laps felt like an ice rink!

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by paradocs98

But if you have to be out driving when the snow is quickly accumulating, performance winter tires (at least these Michelins) are apparently not as good as I had hoped. Serious compound, studless winter tires would definitely be better, but at the expense of squishy driving dynamics when the roads are dry.

This is an important point. I've used both serious winter tires and performance winter tires in 25 years of driving BMWs in the Northeast. I've only gone exclusively with performance winters because I don't *have* to be on the roads (based on your username you probably do have to be on the roads). I can easily work at home and do so often (or I leave work early before the storm). So by the time I'm out again, the roads are mostly clear and I don't want to be stuck on squishy serious winter tires.

That said I have not tried the Pilot Alpin PA4 -- currently have the Sottozero 3, previously have run Winter Sport 3s, Blizzaks and Hakkas (and something else).

[detroitm2]

Sucks they aren't working out.

I run Blizzaks in traction mode. No really issues getting around in the snow.

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by Brokenbones

Sorry to hear. Have vikingcontact7 drove to work this morning in NYC, lots of unplowed areas, drifts or deep ruts. Decent traction except when highsided over deep drift/rut but slowly powered out.

Definitely why I went with studless winters... don’t need the false confidence of performance snows.

Oh, I see. Sorry to have messed up the marketing.

[Brokenbones]

Paradocs, running square 235/35 on 9x19 apex rims. Yes they’re stretched a bit. But don’t look horrible.

I have to drive in bad weather no matter what and I’ve depended on narrow real snow tires. RWD just needs appropriate driving precaution and comfort with sliding around and some devil may care attitude. My old WRX was a joy in snow but I gotta say found the m2 handing is reasonably predictable w traction control on, and doesn’t feel like cars overtly plotting a crash and openly trying to kill me-like my s2000 did during winters.

[Brokenbones]

Also Nokian Hakkaluggie or something. Heard they’re the tits in snow. Might come in 245/35 sizes.

[weglarz]

Hi everyone. I made an account as I just recently bought an M2c 2019 and stumbled upon your thread. I've been kind of dealing with the same issue. I really don't want to swap wheels, I want to keep OEM wheels on with some winter tires. I ordered the same tires as you, 245/35/19 in the front and 265 in the rear, PA4s, but I had rubbing on the front fender on the front. So... I'm considering getting 235s for the front as the tech at NTB said they'd fit. However, after reading this thread I'm considering Blizzak's. What sizes should I get for OEM wheels? Sorry if this constitutes thread jacking, but I can't make my own thread yet, have to reply to one first. Anyways, thanks for the help.

[M2guru]

I found the traction control not as good as without traction control on at least two situations back when I drove mine in the snow with winter tires. Did you try it with traction control off?

[CanadianComp]

Originally Posted by paradocs98

Yep--mounted correctly.


Those Vikingcontact7s look like the business. What size did you use--based on the Continental website, they're not made in the stock M2 245/265 19" sizes.

I went with 255/35 square Vikingcontact 7's on OEM rims... was a little worried about the stretch at the rear before I bought them. But its not as bad as I was expecting...

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by jkoral

This is an important point. I've used both serious winter tires and performance winter tires in 25 years of driving BMWs in the Northeast. I've only gone exclusively with performance winters because I don't *have* to be on the roads (based on your username you probably do have to be on the roads). I can easily work at home and do so often (or I leave work early before the storm). So by the time I'm out again, the roads are mostly clear and I don't want to be stuck on squishy serious winter tires.

That said I have not tried the Pilot Alpin PA4 -- currently have the Sottozero 3, previously have run Winter Sport 3s, Blizzaks and Hakkas (and something else).

Agreed. I've been pleased in the past with performance winter tires because I don't want to sacrifice decent dry-weather handling with serious snow tires for an entire third of the year (need winter tires from November through March here because it's consistently less than 45 degrees outside), during which time it's dry or just raining 90-95% of the time. I don't like the idea of compromising the car's dynamics and fun with true snow tires for four months of the year, just to provide traction during the two or three snows each winter. But on the other hand, it's miserable when the car gets stuck in the snow and you need to be somewhere. I think I was just caught off guard with how far the Michelin Pilot Alpins apparently lean toward the "performance" end of the spectrum, far away from the "winter" part of the spectrum. The Pirelli, Dunlop, and Blizzak performance winter tires I've had in the past were orders of magnitude better in the snow than these Michelins, and yet were still decent in dry weather.

Originally Posted by detroitm2

Sucks they aren't working out.

I run Blizzaks in traction mode. No really issues getting around in the snow.

Good to know--I suspect it's these Michelins and not the car itself.

Originally Posted by Brokenbones

Paradocs, running square 235/35 on 9x19 apex rims. Yes they’re stretched a bit. But don’t look horrible.

I have to drive in bad weather no matter what and I’ve depended on narrow real snow tires. RWD just needs appropriate driving precaution and comfort with sliding around and some devil may care attitude. My old WRX was a joy in snow but I gotta say found the m2 handing is reasonably predictable w traction control on, and doesn’t feel like cars overtly plotting a crash and openly trying to kill me-like my s2000 did during winters.

Thanks for the info. It's definitely not ideal that I'm running the stock 265 width in the rear when looking for some snow traction. Then again, I used stock-sized 295 rear Pirelli Sottozeros when I had my 991 Carrera S, and that did great in the snow. It did have the advantage of the weight of the engine over the rear tires, though. Good to know that you're finding the winter handling of the M2 predictable. I did have some concerns about the short wheelbase with regards to that. I'm definitely okay with a bit of sliding around--it's fun as long as it's controlled and you're not getting in anyone's path. But my experience the other day was just being dead in the water--not being able to accelerate away from a stop at all if on the slightest incline, traction control on or off. Stuck is no fun.

Originally Posted by weglarz

Hi everyone. I made an account as I just recently bought an M2c 2019 and stumbled upon your thread. I've been kind of dealing with the same issue. I really don't want to swap wheels, I want to keep OEM wheels on with some winter tires. I ordered the same tires as you, 245/35/19 in the front and 265 in the rear, PA4s, but I had rubbing on the front fender on the front. So... I'm considering getting 235s for the front as the tech at NTB said they'd fit. However, after reading this thread I'm considering Blizzak's. What sizes should I get for OEM wheels? Sorry if this constitutes thread jacking, but I can't make my own thread yet, have to reply to one first. Anyways, thanks for the help.

No problem. I've noticed a bit of rubbing with the 245 Pilot Alpins in front, too, but it's only with a lot of steering lock at slow speeds. The real concern is how poorly these tires handle real snow. It may be too late because most inventory is gone, but if you can return the Michelins and get something else, I would strongly recommend it, especially if you need to do real snow driving. See if you can find Bridgestone Blizzaks, Pirelli Sottozeros, Dunlop Wintersports, the Continentals, or even Goodyear performance snow tires in the correct sizes.

Originally Posted by M2guru

I found the traction control not as good as without traction control on at least two situations back when I drove mine in the snow with winter tires. Did you try it with traction control off?

Yep. Tried it on, tried MDM, tried it completely off. Nothing helped with getting underway from a stop if there was a slight incline.

Originally Posted by CanadianComp

I went with 255/35 square Vikingcontact 7's on OEM rims... was a little worried about the stretch at the rear before I bought them. But its not as bad as I was expecting...

Thanks for the info.

[grl.racr]

Heh, I said how the PA4 were absolute garbage a few years back and got flamed. They are pretty useless in anything more than an inch of snow. I opted for Nokian Hakkas this go around and hoping I have a better experience :P

[twboy1999]

a inch? that is not true

[MetalM2]

Originally Posted by mrs.boost

Heh, I said how the PA4 were absolute garbage a few years back and got flamed. They are pretty useless in anything more than an inch of snow. I opted for Nokian Hakkas this go around and hoping I have a better experience :P

Originally Posted by mrs.boost

Heh, I said how the PA4 were absolute garbage a few years back and got flamed. They are pretty useless in anything more than an inch of snow. I opted for Nokian Hakkas this go around and hoping I have a better experience :P

I have the Nokian Hakkas on my car, and used them last winter. The M2 is my daily driver, and Ottawa winters are no joke. You'll love the Nokians in true winter weather, they will get you through anything except for the ridiculously deep stuff that no 2-wheel drive, relatively low-riding car should be driving in, anyway.

[Kankles]

Alpins are made for parts of EU that require winter tires be mounted but rarely get any snow. So you can still drive 250kph on the autobahn when it's dry and above freezing.

[omasou]

I've never had a M car do well in the snow.

In 1996, I had an E36 328. It drove fantastic in the winter with snows.

In 1997, I traded the car for an E36M3. Same tires and it sucked in the snow. I think it has to do with the transmission programming and how the torque is applied.

But I'd be worried about the oil cooler and hitting a chunk of frozen snow.

Not sure how our friends up north manage but guessing they have way more winter driving experience than I ever will.