[sharpmoney]

Any info on when this switch will happen and will there be any difference in product or basically the same 0w-30 LL01-FE stuff just made by Castrol instead of Shell?

[F87source]

Wait what? Where did you get this information? Bmw originally was with castrol but switched to shell recently, I don't think they're going to switch back especially since shell's GTL base stock oils imo are so much better than castrol at the current moment, like HTHS is higher with shell and NOACK numbers are really low. Also the current shell made 0w30 tpt oil is very very stout and some good stuff, I see literally no reason for bmw to abandon shell now.

[neil_79]

Looks like it will remain Shell until at least 2022, but agree with F87source’s comments about Shell’s GTL base stock oils.

https://www.shell.com/business-custo...-supplier.html

[sharpmoney]

https://svmotori.com/blogs/news/cast...ovider-in-2021

saw it here as well as a post on boboilguy

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sharpmoney

https://svmotori.com/blogs/news/cast...ovider-in-2021

saw it here as well as a post on boboilguy

Yeah I saw it here now: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...astrol.333410/

Interesting, I will keep looking at this topic. It is going to be hard to find current to date LL01 spec oils because newtis is gone.

[F87source]

Ok I looked more on this and so far castrol's product line now offers a 5w40 euro variant that is bmw LL01 approved, no info on HTHS etc.

I still think the new PPE 5w40 is better with a super low noack and a 3.8 HTHS, equal to this will be the motul excess gen 2 5w40. Then castrols offerings.

If LL01 doesnt matter there are oils with even higher HTHS ratings.

[sharpmoney]

i ask because currrently using the "shell bmw tpt" FE stuff for warranty, so stock up a few extra liters of shell or wait for castrol because there will be no difference in end product? thanks.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sharpmoney

i ask because currrently using the "shell bmw tpt" FE stuff for warranty, so stock up a few extra liters of shell or wait for castrol because there will be no difference in end product? thanks.

Well there is many facets to your question let me break it down.

1) Yes there will be changes to the end product when castrol takes over, the end product will be LL01 FE as it meets bmw's minimum requirements, but the end product will have a different formulation and thus TBN, HTHS, NOACK, KV100 etc will be different - whether these differences will be better or worse than what shell offers is yet to be determined. I think it will be hard to beat what shell offers because the GTL formulations that shell has results in really low NOACK ratings, and HTHS is solid with shell products as of late.

2) If you are only using bmw TPT for warranty (because there are indeed cheaper and better oils out there such as pennzoil platinum euro 5w40) then there is no point of stocking TPT unless you really like it, or only want to use 30 weight LL01 FE oils in the future. Because when you inevitably go for a dealer performed oil change you will have no choice but to get the castrol stuff put in your car essentially defeating the whole stocking up on TPT oil.

3) The only exception to 1&2 is if you track your car, because it is unknown if the castrol stuff will be as stout as the current shell made TPT oil. So if you want to always use the bmw oil (which I recommend incase of warranty claims) then yeah stock up on some TPT.

Overall imo just use whatever bmw is using on your car while under warranty, then swap out to better oils when warranty is over.

[sharpmoney]

Originally Posted by F87source

Well there is many facets to your question let me break it down.

1) Yes there will be changes to the end product when castrol takes over, the end product will be LL01 FE as it meets bmw's minimum requirements, but the end product will have a different formulation and thus TBN, HTHS, NOACK, KV100 etc will be different - whether these differences will be better or worse than what shell offers is yet to be determined. I think it will be hard to beat what shell offers because the GTL formulations that shell has results in really low NOACK ratings, and HTHS is solid with shell products as of late.

2) If you are only using bmw TPT for warranty (because there are indeed cheaper and better oils out there such as pennzoil platinum euro 5w40) then there is no point of stocking TPT unless you really like it, or only want to use 30 weight LL01 FE oils in the future. Because when you inevitably go for a dealer performed oil change you will have no choice but to get the castrol stuff put in your car essentially defeating the whole stocking up on TPT oil.

3) The only exception to 1&2 is if you track your car, because it is unknown if the castrol stuff will be as stout as the current shell made TPT oil. So if you want to always use the bmw oil (which I recommend incase of warranty claims) then yeah stock up on some TPT.

Overall imo just use whatever bmw is using on your car while under warranty, then swap out to better oils when warranty is over.

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united...-supplier.html

official now.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sharpmoney

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united...-supplier.html

official now.

Good to know, but iirc the only good 40 weight castrol oil is the 0w40 and irrc it's not LL01. Hopefully this changes and they make some reformulated 40 weights that meets bmws new certifications.

[sharpmoney]

Originally Posted by F87source

Good to know, but iirc the only good 40 weight castrol oil is the 0w40 and irrc it's not LL01. Hopefully this changes and they make some reformulated 40 weights that meets bmws new certifications.

WHAT ARE THE AVAILABLE VISCOSITY GRADES OF BMW GROUP ENGINE OIL?
The four available viscosities for the BMW Group Engine Oil are: 10W-60, 0W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-30.

don't think we are going to get a 40w.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sharpmoney

WHAT ARE THE AVAILABLE VISCOSITY GRADES OF BMW GROUP ENGINE OIL?
The four available viscosities for the BMW Group Engine Oil are: 10W-60, 0W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-30.

don't think we are going to get a 40w.

I'm talking about castrols own line up of oils, I hope now that they are making oil for bmw they will update their own 40 weight oils to include bmws new certifications. I also hope that makes their 0w40 bmw approved again, and potentially make it even better than it was before.

[windnsea00]

I will be curious how Castrol's oils stack up against Shell's, the natural gas to liquid methodology by Shell seems to be one of the best offerings out there.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

I will be curious how Castrol's oils stack up against Shell's, the natural gas to liquid methodology by Shell seems to be one of the best offerings out there.

Yes it is, the GTL formulation of shell's base stock is what makes it so clean, and such a good robust oil.

I too wonder how castrol will stack up.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yes it is, the GTL formulation of shell's base stock is what makes it so clean, and such a good robust oil.

I too wonder how castrol will stack up.

Castrol relies on PAO for high-end products (not their 5W40 Edge in stores). Their 0W40 and 0W30 are almost 50% PAO based on pour point.
The problem with Pennzoil is a very low ZDDP level and for whatever reason bad flash point retention that is consistent in UOA. BMW required from SOPUS different products than what SOPUS offers on sale. Generally, TPT has much higher PAO content and lower GTL content.
What will Castrol offer, who knows. BMW made LL specifications more stringent when it comes to oxidation in 2018. Owners of N55 and S55 should not worry about this as it is aimed to B generation of engines, but a lot of very good oils cannot get approved bcs. oxidation requirements (All 0W oils with HTHS above 3.5 etc).

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

Castrol relies on PAO for high-end products (not their 5W40 Edge in stores). Their 0W40 and 0W30 are almost 50% PAO based on pour point.
The problem with Pennzoil is a very low ZDDP level and for whatever reason bad flash point retention that is consistent in UOA. BMW required from SOPUS different products than what SOPUS offers on sale. Generally, TPT has much higher PAO content and lower GTL content.
What will Castrol offer, who knows. BMW made LL specifications more stringent when it comes to oxidation in 2018. Owners of N55 and S55 should not worry about this as it is aimed to B generation of engines, but a lot of very good oils cannot get approved bcs. oxidation requirements (All 0W oils with HTHS above 3.5 etc).

Thanks for the info!

That's why I also look for the MB approvals too. The problem is castrols 5w40 (the lesser one) is the common variant here and 0w40 is never around and if it is only available in a 1L bottle for not a really good price. Same goes for mobil 1 0w40 esp which also has a high pao content, never available in stores.

But I generally want to keep that LL01 raring so yeah, pennzoil it is till the new castrol oils debut and then I'll see if it's worth making a switch.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

Thanks for the info!

That's why I also look for the MB approvals too. The problem is castrols 5w40 (the lesser one) is the common variant here and 0w40 is never around and if it is only available in a 1L bottle for not a really good price. Same goes for mobil 1 0w40 esp which also has a high pao content, never available in stores.

But I generally want to keep that LL01 raring so yeah, pennzoil it is till the new castrol oils debut and then I'll see if it's worth making a switch.

Yeah, I know in Canada things are different. Pennzoil 5W40 is definitely good oil. I get pissed off at them bcs. they are all over the place with their PDS info. mixing data sheets etc. which leads me to think about whether they mess up their actual product too.
Motul is another "heavy hitter" here, especially their Gen2 stuff which looks phenomenal.
Most of these oils will do good, but one oil I would stay away in N/S55 engines is Mobil1 0W40 FS due to very high SAPS levels.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

Yeah, I know in Canada things are different. Pennzoil 5W40 is definitely good oil. I get pissed off at them bcs. they are all over the place with their PDS info. mixing data sheets etc. which leads me to think about whether they mess up their actual product too.
Motul is another "heavy hitter" here, especially their Gen2 stuff which looks phenomenal.
Most of these oils will do good, but one oil I would stay away in N/S55 engines is Mobil1 0W40 FS due to very high SAPS levels.

Lol their data sheets are always weird. I actually got in contact with pennzoil and they told me they updated their ppe 5w40 so new hths is 3.8 which is really nice. They copied and pasted the data from their internal document but wouldn't send me a copy.

Yeah I like the motul xcess gen 2 5w40 too, and we have easy access to it here with lordcos. But price makes it not very appealing especially with how close all these oils are together, so imo with my lower oci I went with pennzoil.


Yeah I agree with the mobil 1 statement, same reason why I stay away from the ams oil full saps stuff.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

Lol their data sheets are always weird. I actually got in contact with pennzoil and they told me they updated their ppe 5w40 so new hths is 3.8 which is really nice. They copied and pasted the data from their internal document but wouldn't send me a copy.

Yeah I like the motul xcess gen 2 5w40 too, and we have easy access to it here with lordcos. But price makes it not very appealing especially with how close all these oils are together, so imo with my lower oci I went with pennzoil.


Yeah I agree with the mobil 1 statement, same reason why I stay away from the ams oil full saps stuff.

I got a new PPE API SP, will use it on track in my N52. Will do UOA to see how it compares to Motul 5W40 300V I have and will also use on track.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

I got a new PPE API SP, will use it on track in my N52. Will do UOA to see how it compares to Motul 5W40 300V I have and will also use on track.

5w40 for the pennzoil platinum euro?

Also don't forget to tag me in the UOA.

But I can't wait to see the results. I know an m2 guy did a UOA after track use (2-3 events) with the older lower hths ppe 5w40 and results looked good. I will try to find that thread and post the link here.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

I got a new PPE API SP, will use it on track in my N52. Will do UOA to see how it compares to Motul 5W40 300V I have and will also use on track.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1681993

Flash point did drop 17ºC but still well above any peak oil temps these cars will see before limp mode kicks in.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1681993

Flash point did drop 17ºC but still well above any peak oil temps these cars will see before limp mode kicks in.

Yes, I have seen that UOA when I was researching some UOA of that oil as I have seen some with drop in the flashpoint.
Problem is that temperatures around journal bearings etc. are higher than that. But, besides that, why drop if no fuel? There is something with base stock stability that is an issue. I saw a similar drop in UOA on N52 that does not see track time. M2 should be much tougher, yet it seems flash point drop is consistent. That means that the Noack value later is much, much higher (the higher flash point is one of the indicators of low-Noack. For example, the previous version of Mobil1 ESP 5W30 had the flash point of 254c and Noack 5.6%). It is still track-capable oil as it is Porsche A40 oil, but IMO, for street/track in M2 I would always go Motul 5W40 Sport or 300V.