[flybigjet]

A little help and guidance from The Collective and all of its experts? Yes, this is long, but it's a complicated thing, so THANKS IN ADVANCE for taking the time to read through it.......

I'm about 5000 miles from needing to replace tires-- and that opens up Pandora's box with regard to wheels, tires and suspension. My car is a 2020 SOM M2C MT with Carbahn tune (~550hp/560tq), larger intercooler and M3/M4 intake snorkels. At the moment, at full-throttle in 1st-4th gear and over 4000 rpm, the rear wheels will try to slip and will trigger the DSC to activate, which makes for an..... unpleasant situation at high rpm's

The car is a "sportily" driven daily driver/weekend/date night toy. It won't see the track other than an occasional "How to drive your car better" HPDE, and the goal is as good or better ride compliance than stock on Colorado roads, NO rubbing of the wheels *and* better rear grip for power-- I want it to be a fun road toy, but not to compromise the ride as much as you would on a dedicated track car.

I should mention that cost and aesthetics are an issue as well as I'm married and my wife does the finances (i.e. I can't hide the bills).

I think I'm sold on the M-Performance suspension as from what I've read, it's a better ride than stock and will help eliminate some of the "jitteriness" of the car under full throttle and over road imperfections. I believe I'll also need camber plates as well (Vorshlag's?) I'm only interested in a very subtle drop to close up the wheel/fender gap a bit as I'm not a fan of the slammed/negative camber look.

I've decided on the the Michelin PS4S's as the best choice for me in a tire.

If I stay with stock wheels (788M, 19x9 ET29f @ 24.7 lbs, 19x10 ET40r, @ 26.24 lbs) I'm limited to a maximum of +1 (255/35/19 and 275/35/19) on the tires due to the extremely tight M2C front wheel clearances-- but other than a difference in tire compound and sidewall "feel", my understanding is that I'm putting very little additional rubber down to the ground-- which won't help me with the additional Carbahn power?

I *think* I can do a 265/30/19 & 295/30/19 on the stock rims *if* I don't lower the car, but that opens up the wheel arch (smaller tire diameter) and is non-optimal on 9 & 10" wide rims. And if I put the MP suspension on, I have no idea if they would fit. It also changes the ratio between front and rear tires (30 instead of 20)-- my understanding is that this will increase understeer.

Finally, a 30-series tire scares me from a "daily driver" aspect. I've read both that it significantly increases ride harshness and is prone to pinch flats, but also that with the MP4S's, the better sidewall makes the ride very similar to stock. Not sure what the truth is there.

If I go with wheels, I'm looking at two different manufacturers (both are pretty close in price):

- Apex EC-7 (19x9.5" ET28f @ 22.65 lbs. w/ PS4S 265/30/19 tires and 19x10.5" ET45r @ 23.4 lbs. w/ PS4S 295/30-19's) in either Anthracite or Race Silver.

- Titan7 T-S5 forged split 5 spoke (19x9.5 ET27f @ 20.6 lbs. w/ PS4S 265/30-19 tires and 19x10.5 ET44r @ 21.1 lbs. w/ PS4S 295/30-19 tires) in Satin Titanium (although I think I can upcharge and get them in any color I like?)

I *think* that either the Apex's or the Titan's will fit without modification with the stock suspension, but as soon as I put on the MP suspension, I'll have to add approx 1.5 degrees of negative camber and 5mm front spacers to clear everything. Aesthetically, I just don't know if I like either of these wheels since it's *very* hard to tell from looking at pictures on a laptop, and I can't find either of them on a SOM M2C. I really love the more angular look of the 763 spokes, but am unsure of the more organically curved spokes of the Apex or Titan.

I've eliminated the 763M's (black only, expensive, and other than weight, identical to the stock 788's), the BBS CI-R (very expensive and non-optimal rear offsets) and the Richland Forged RF-GT4's (non-optimal rear offsets (but gorgeous and closest in look to the 763M's).

So. Questions:

1. Did I miss anything obvious? Can these combinations be run without rubbing? I've done a lot of research, but I'm almost at the point of my head exploding.

2. Will 255/275 MP4S's on stock rims make any difference in my power delivery issues? This is the easiest solution, but maybe not the best?

3. Is a 265/30 & 295/30 combination too much tire for stock 9 & 10" wheels? Is it doable? Would the ride be very negatively affected? Would it help with power delivery?

4. Is a 265/30 & 295/30 MP4S setup (on the wider Apex or Titan's) a better choice for the higher horsepower?

5. What are the ride implications with the Mp4S in a 30 sidewall? Will the ride be noticeably harsher, or is the slightly lower sidewall (0.25" shorter than stock) compensated by the better MP4S tires? In other words, will my wife complain when we go out on a date?

6. Since a 275f isn't easily doable it seem that 265f/295r is recommended. Can I use camber plates to dial out excessive understeer that the 30 f/r ratio causes? In other words, make it streetable like the 20 f/r ratio? Or am I worrying about nothing?

7. Any better recommended choices for coilovers for aggressive street driving than the MP? I've read about various other systems causing noise and hitting things-- the MP are a "sure thing" and I don't need a "full-track" setup.

8. For the MP suspension, w/ Vorshlag camber plates, would you have them installed at the dealer (warranty), or at another shop? I have a very, very good BMW-specific shop that's worked on both my old e46 M3 and my current f87 M2C. They're racers and BMW's are *all* they work on, so I'm inclined to go with them from an expertise standpoint, but I am a bit concerned about warranty.

9. Any reason (other than aesthetics) to go with the Apex over the Titan's or vice versa? The offsets are almost identical, although the Titan's are a bit lighter. I'm not sure which manufacturing process is stronger/better.

10. How noticeable is -1.5 of camber in the front? Will the wheel look "slanty" when the wheels are straight?

11. Any other suggestions on wheels that are "M2C friendly" that look similar and won't break the bank?

12. If it was *YOUR* Sunset Orange Metallic M2C, would you go with the Apex EC-7 in Anthracite or Race Silver, or the Titan7 T-S5 in Satin Titanium? I'm not great at visualizing, so I have no idea. I just know I don't want black.

13. Does anyone have pictures of these wheels on a SOM M2C? Anybody?

Again, THANK YOU for your input-- I'm at the "paralysis by analysis" point and am about to melt my brain.

R.

[Karmic Man]

Get the Titan T-S5 in Satin Titanium couple with a 265/295 30 19 setup...Apex flow form wheels are heavier but cheaper

The T-S5 set looks awesome (sleeker than the EC-7) in real life and weights around the same as the 763M but 0.5 inch wider front and rear...you get more tyre performance and response by running wider wheels and you can even do 275/305 on the Titan vs 763M which 265/295 is max

You don't need additional camber or spacer to run 265/30 front on the TS-5

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Get the Titan T-S5 in Satin Titanium couple with a 265/295 30 19 setup...Apex flow form wheels are heavier but cheaper

The T-S5 set looks awesome (sleeker than the EC-7) in real life and weights around the same as the 763M but 0.5 inch wider front and rear...you get more tyre performance and response by running wider wheels and you can even do 275/305 on the Titan vs 763M which 265/295 is max

You don't need additional camber or spacer to run 265/30 front on the TS-5

Heh. I sent the pics I attached here to the Minister of War and Finance (i.e. my wife) and her response to the Titan's (which I'd been leaning towards exactly for the reasons that you posted) was.... "The spokes look like a bunch of stick men."

Well. THAT took the wind out of my sails. She by far likes the Apex's better.

I wish I could find a wheel that looks like the 763M but in 9.5/10.5 with the proper offsets.

Or, maybe Apex will make an EC-8 in M2C fitments?

Sigh.

[VisualEcho]

Everyone thinks more acceleration grip is about a wider tire.

It's not, and never has been.

And it damn sure isn't about a wider/heavier wheel.

All grip is about tire compound and pressure.

If you want more acceleration grip then choose that kind of tire (not a handling tire like the PSS/PS4S), and lower the pressure to 29 psi.

[dmf]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

2. Will 255/275 MP4S's on stock rims make any difference in my power delivery issues? This is the easiest solution, but maybe not the best?

My street tires are currently 255/275 RE-71Rs on the stock rims and imo are fine - if anything I prefer the wider tires since OEM sizes feel a little under spec'd. They are left overs from before I had my Titan7 set of track wheels so I'm running them down before switching back to something more normal for street use.

I feel more comfortable putting power down with those tires than I did with my stock tires, but I can't say for sure with your extra power via the tune whether they would be enough.

Originally Posted by flybigjet

3. Is a 265/30 & 295/30 combination too much tire for stock 9 & 10" wheels? Is it doable? Would the ride be very negatively affected? Would it help with power delivery?

I use 265/30 and 295/30 Toyo R888R tires on my Titan7 track set and there are no issues with rubbing, but I've got -3.3 camber in the front.

Originally Posted by flybigjet

8. For the MP suspension, w/ Vorshlag camber plates, would you have them installed at the dealer (warranty), or at another shop?

I'm not sure the dealer would be interested in installing the camber plates, so your options are either split the work between the two or just go with the preferred shop. When I got my MPS installed I had my preferred race shop do the work instead of the dealer because I valued safety/install quality over warranty.

I would explore the dealer option for the MPS install and then perhaps take the car to the race shop to have them do camber plates and also check over the MPS install? Probably not the cheapest arrangement.

Originally Posted by flybigjet

9. Any reason (other than aesthetics) to go with the Apex over the Titan's or vice versa? The offsets are almost identical, although the Titan's are a bit lighter. I'm not sure which manufacturing process is stronger/better.

As a mostly irrelevant data point, I've had my Titan7's since June and I've already managed to introduce a slight bend to one side. It isn't aesthetically noticeable and its not affecting performance/behavior but was slightly surprising.

Now that I've swapped to AP Racing calipers I'm waiting on a set of APEX EC-7R Forged 18" to arrive in March.

Originally Posted by flybigjet

10. How noticeable is -1.5 of camber in the front? Will the wheel look "slanty" when the wheels are straight?

With -3.3 in the front and it is only noticeable if you look straight on to the car.

[flybigjet]

Talked to the Minister of War and Finance today and got cleared to pull the trigger on Apex's M2C-specific 19" EC-7's in Anthracite w/ MP4S's in 265/295-30.

Happy Christmas (and New Years, Birthday, Anniversary, etc.) to me.

I even brought up the MPS suspension "down the road", and I'm still breathing, so that's a plus.

[Rundskop]

There are Richland Forged wheels that were designed to look like the 763M wheels. They offer similar fitment as Titan and Apex for M2C, price like Titan and offer decent colors.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1715781

EDIT: Just saw your other post regarding Richland Forged rear offset sizing being an issue which is a good call out if you plan to run 295's. EC7 are dope. I had ARC8 on my E82.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Talked to the Minister of War and Finance today and got cleared to pull the trigger on Apex's M2C-specific 10" EC-7's in Anthracite w/ MP4S's in 265/295-30.

Happy Christmas (and New Years, Birthday, Anniversary, etc.) to me.

I even brought up the MPS suspension "down the road", and I'm still breathing, so that's a plus.

Best post I've seen in quite a while. lol