[DrChase]

I fitted the Apex 19" square setup (9.5" width all four corners). Mounted Falken Azenis RT660s in 275/30/19. I absolutely love this setup on track. It's pure magic and has made me pretty much retire my heavily track-prepped ND2 Miata.

I am addicted to the square setup, but don't necessarily want to be running 200TW all the time on the road. I'm wanting to get a second set of Apex wheels in the same size, dedicated as a street square setup. However, I'm torn about tire choice. There are limited options in 19" due to my running the OEM 2NH brake calipers. Looks like Conti Extreme Contact Sport or Michelin Pilot Sport 4S are the best street-oriented options. Conti ECS are only in 275/30/19 and PS4S are in 265/30/19 or 275/30/19. I'm leaning toward the 265 for better comfort and noise levels and due to my wanting to keep the limits and low-speed hoonability very attainable in [low-traffic, relatively safe] road conditions. The stock PSS are great for the controlled oversteer on [empty] roads, but I want the square magic on the street. Anyone running a square stance on the street, with truly street-specific tires (greater than 200TW). If so, what have you learned? What worked for you? Thanks!

[Track/S]

After having tried cup2 (front and rear) and toyo r888r (front) I decided to try the goodride sport RS and I fell in love with them, first I tried 275/30/19 in the front, the result was very good, then i bought 285/35/19 for the rear, i went to the mountain to test them and i'm still excited, my car with 550hp (stage2h ron95) never had so much grip, i realized that the cup2 are literally rubbish compared to the rs sport, and they are worth 4 times less. They don't make ANY noise, I run with a 2.8 front camber, with the r888r it was unbearable to drive on the street, so for the moment I found the ideal configuration and I'm not going to change, I'm even going to order a set of 4 rims et40 for my M4 to use 285/35 around and be able to rotate them.

[DrChase]

Thanks for the Rival S recommendation. I might go this route for my next 200TW set. I’m also eager to get a higher-tread, lower-grip street tire for fun with the lower and more progressive limits at low speeds.

[Maynard]

You may want to consider narrower tires for those wheels (265, or even 255 if you can find a 35-profile in that) - it will give a more taut and responsive feel. It is debatable if it loses some absolute grip to a wider tire, but if you aren't looking for max grip it is a definite advantage. And if you are buying a dedicated set of wheels, you could go with 9" and run 245's - now you are saving probably 4-5#/wheel - you'll certainly feel the benefits of that as well.

[rllamarca]

This fall I had 265/35/18 Cup 2s (220TW I believe) all around on my M2C and it handled wonderfully, although it was a touch twitchy, even after adjusting camber from -3.5 (set by the previous owner) to -2. The suspension shop who made the adjustments mentioned that having all that tire up front can do that.

This spring I'll be running PS4S (needed better wet performance) in the same size and can't wait.

[DrChase]

Originally Posted by Maynard

You may want to consider narrower tires for those wheels (265, or even 255 if you can find a 35-profile in that) - it will give a more taut and responsive feel. It is debatable if it loses some absolute grip to a wider tire, but if you aren't looking for max grip it is a definite advantage. And if you are buying a dedicated set of wheels, you could go with 9" and run 245's - now you are saving probably 4-5#/wheel - you'll certainly feel the benefits of that as well.

Thanks for this! I am going for max contact patch with the 200TW set (thus will run the widest 30-series possible in front and rear), but for a street-oriented (and rainy track day) set, going >200TW in a 265/30/19 on 9.5” width wheels sounds appealing for the slightly greater tossability and the tighter responsiveness/feel. I think I’ll get another Apex set and wrap them with square 265/30/19. I want to avoid going narrower than the OEM rear (265).

[jdubm2c]

Originally Posted by DrChase

Thanks for the Rival S recommendation. I might go this route for my next 200TW set. I’m also eager to get a higher-tread, lower-grip street tire for fun with the lower and more progressive limits at low speeds.

I have been running 275/35/18 square with 200tw for my summer/track setup. I run 265 square in PS4S for the other three seasons. I actually think the PS4S setup is the best version of the car for quieter comfort and handling crispness. I am running Titan7 9.5”. I was able to move to 18’s installing AP brakes on the front.

[DrChase]

Originally Posted by jdubm2c

I have been running 275/35/18 square with 200tw for my summer/track setup. I run 265 square in PS4S for the other three seasons. I actually think the PS4S setup is the best version of the car for quieter comfort and handling crispness. I am running Titan7 9.5”. I was able to move to 18’s installing AP brakes on the front.

Awesome feedback. Thanks! Is the difference between 200TW and the PS4S pretty noticeable on the street in terms of tossability? The 200TW is just a bit too high-limit for oversteer fun at relatively low speeds once there's any warmth in the tires. I really want the playful street character of the stock Michelin PSS, but with a square stance in 19" (to keep the 2NH brakes for awhile). Thanks again!

[bitcore]

I switched to a square set up on 9" rims:
19x9" ET30 APEX VS-5RS
Wrapped it in Michelin PS4S, 255/35/19 all around.

Yes, I made the rear wheels a full inch smaller. I went down a stock width in tire in the back, moved up in the front.

Reminder,
Stock front: 245/35/19
Stock rear: 265/35/19

Fits great (I don't like a stretched look, also more protection for the rim), looks great, loads of fun on the street. I like to be tail happy and this setup suits the car and what I want from it. I just rotated back to front a couple of days ago. It's nice to be able to even out your tire wear! Interestingly, my wear patterns front to back were quite similar, and I slide around a lot, so that was surprising! No issues with traction control and the tire diameter difference. Revolutions per mile changes from stock were all within 5%, I've read the TC system will self adapt and not have any problems with a difference of up to 10%.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

I'm going to try 9.5's with 275/30 Falken RT660's square.

I'm back to being square again after my experiments with 265/295 staggered.

[DrChase]

Originally Posted by bitcore

I switched to a square set up on 9" rims:
19x9" ET30 APEX VS-5RS
Wrapped it in Michelin PS4S, 255/35/19 all around.

Yes, I made the rear wheels a full inch smaller. I went down a stock width in tire in the back, moved up in the front.

Reminder,
Stock front: 245/35/19
Stock rear: 265/35/19

Fits great (I don't like a stretched look, also more protection for the rim), looks great, loads of fun on the street. I like to be tail happy and this setup suits the car and what I want from it. I just rotated back to front a couple of days ago. It's nice to be able to even out your tire wear! Interestingly, my wear patterns front to back were quite similar, and I slide around a lot, so that was surprising! No issues with traction control and the tire diameter difference. Revolutions per mile changes from stock were all within 5%, I've read the TC system will self adapt and not have any problems with a difference of up to 10%.

This is good to hear. I’ve toyed with the idea of retaining the OEM aspect ratio but going square with 255 width (thus not having to roll fenders or modify liners). Still leaning 265/30/19, but a thicker sidewall is well suited for sideways fun on the street.

[DrChase]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

I'm going to try 9.5's with 275/30 Falken RT660's square.

I'm back to being square again after my experiments with 265/295 staggered.

Nice. The square 275/30 RT660 on 9.5” wheels is phenomenal on track. Just a bit too soft and grippy for ultimate fun on the street where speeds and lateral Gs are necessarily limited. I don’t think you’ll be switching from it anytime soon, unless of course you go AP front brakes or some other good tire choices start hitting the market in 275/30. I was hoping the Yoko Advan AD09, Goodyear SC3, or the RE-71RS would come out with 275/30, but nothing yet. Slim pickings, but the RT660 is doing a fine job at every event I’ve done with the setup (including a tight, flat lower-speed technical course, a moderate speed and technical but very cambered course and some elevation changes, and a roval course).

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by DrChase

This is good to hear. I’ve toyed with the idea of retaining the OEM aspect ratio but going square with 255 width (thus not having to roll fenders or modify liners). Still leaning 265/30/19, but a thicker sidewall is well suited for sideways fun on the street.

Agreed. 255/35 all around is sounding like a good solution for a fun, usable street car that won't get driven on the track. I enjoy small moments of oversteer.

[MadM2C]

Can anybody post pics of their 19" square setups please!

[DrChase]

Not the best pictures, but here you go. I tend to care very little about appearances. Hahahah

Stock suspension, but with camber plates. Apex EC-7 9.5" by 19" wrapped with 275/30/19 Falken Azenis RT660.

[MadM2C]

Originally Posted by DrChase

Not the best pictures, but here you go. I tend to care very little about appearances. Hahahah

Stock suspension, but with camber plates. Apex EC-7 9.5" by 19" wrapped with 275/30/19 Falken Azenis RT660.

Looks great!

[DrChase]

I've ordered a second square setup, with the intent being this second set will be almost exclusively for street use. I've ordered 9.5" by 19" ET28 SM-10 flow-formed Apex wheels in silver. Ordered 265/30/19 Michelin PS4S to mount. I'll use the PS4S every now and then in wet track conditions, but otherwise I'll keep using my 275/30/19 RT660 setup with the EC-7s for track. I went 265 width for the Michelins instead of 255 because I know I'll still occasionally want the wider contact patch for track days, even though I prefer street tossability. I'll update soon with impressions!

[DrChase]

Okay, 265/30/19 PS4S are much quieter, have good fitment, are more comfortable, and are road friendly. However, grip (even cold) is pretty substantial on the street. Even when overinflated in the rear, with the square stance, it’s much tougher to get low-speed throttle oversteer on the street. They lack turn-in feel and quickness of response as well, compared to PSS. I’ll need to scrub them a bit in the rear to get the street magic back. Hoping I can get the low-speed drifty fun back into the car with these 4S!

[bitcore]

Originally Posted by bitcore

I switched to a square set up on 9" rims:
19x9" ET30 APEX VS-5RS
Wrapped it in Michelin PS4S, 255/35/19 all around.

Yes, I made the rear wheels a full inch smaller. I went down a stock width in tire in the back, moved up in the front.

Reminder,
Stock front: 245/35/19
Stock rear: 265/35/19

Update: Had a nail in one of my square rears, and it happened to be one of my wheels that was damaged. Pulled it off to get both rim and tire repaired, and decided to put my old fronts on the rear for fun while it was getting repaired since my stock fronts had plenty of tread and my stock rears were rather bald. So, my apex rim PS4S 255 in front, stock BMW OEM PSS 245 in back. The front wheel ET works perfectly fine for the rear.

Whoooo hooo this setup is FUN! Stock power levels, 6mt. This thing is a riot to drive with the slimmer tires in the back. I love squirming around, and it's so much more fun this way since you don't have to be going at very high speeds or being really hard on the car to drift around a corner.

Wheel hop is a bit less. I'm hoping a diff bracket will eliminate that entirely, but that's an expensive upgrade (labor) to find out if it even helps with that or not.

Looks pretty stupid, but I don't care since I'm laughing the whole time and grinning from ear to ear inside. If you have a spare set, give this a try and slap a skinny width tire on the back. It's an absolute hoot.
My rim and wheel are back and I'm not bothering to switch the setup back, it's just too much fun.

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by DrChase

Okay, 265/30/19 PS4S are much quieter, have good fitment, are more comfortable, and are road friendly. However, grip (even cold) is pretty substantial on the street. Even when overinflated in the rear, with the square stance, it’s much tougher to get low-speed throttle oversteer on the street. They lack turn-in feel and quickness of response as well, compared to PSS. I’ll need to scrub them a bit in the rear to get the street magic back. Hoping I can get the low-speed drifty fun back into the car with these 4S!

PSS* are much better than PS4S in that regard. Keep telling people that!

[DrChase]

Originally Posted by bitcore

Update: Had a nail in one of my square rears, and it happened to be one of my wheels that was damaged. Pulled it off to get both rim and tire repaired, and decided to put my old fronts on the rear for fun while it was getting repaired since my stock fronts had plenty of tread and my stock rears were rather bald. So, my apex rim PS4S 255 in front, stock BMW OEM PSS 245 in back. The front wheel ET works perfectly fine for the rear.

Whoooo hooo this setup is FUN! Stock power levels, 6mt. This thing is a riot to drive with the slimmer tires in the back. I love squirming around, and it's so much more fun this way since you don't have to be going at very high speeds or being really hard on the car to drift around a corner.

Wheel hop is a bit less. I'm hoping a diff bracket will eliminate that entirely, but that's an expensive upgrade (labor) to find out if it even helps with that or not.

Looks pretty stupid, but I don't care since I'm laughing the whole time and grinning from ear to ear inside. If you have a spare set, give this a try and slap a skinny width tire on the back. It's an absolute hoot.
My rim and wheel are back and I'm not bothering to switch the setup back, it's just too much fun.

Sounds like a riot! I didn't know there was a diff brace mod available that could be streetable. I had a beefed up diff brace on my track-only ND2 Miata, which transmitted a fair amount of NVH (including gear whine) to the cabin. I love the diff behavior on my M2C, but would appreciate a reduction in the interruptions that surface changes can introduce. Who makes the diff bracket reinforcement?

[DrChase]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

PSS* are much better than PS4S in that regard. Keep telling people that!

Tradeoffs. I think I prefer the MPSS overall, but they were unavailable in the square sizes (aspect ratio in particular) that I needed. I would've purchased them over the PS4S for sure. PS4S are getting a little more friendly and willing to play as I give them some wear.