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      03-07-2022, 04:41 PM   #1
JCLG19
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Should I upgrade My PSS to PS4S?

Hi all,

I've been considering upgrading my Pilot Super Sport's to 4S's and wanted a sanity check here to see if there is reason to my madness.

1. In about 2 weeks time I am getting a set of Bilstein B16's and will be running a basic Stage 1 Tune. I'm slightly concerned that the Super Sports may not cut it, especially with the UK wet weather we have.

2. I track this car a lot and am really interested in their performance. I had a set on my old M4 and they were incredible.

The Negatives -

1. I currently have about 6mm on the fronts and 4/5mm on the rears. I've done about 4 trackdays in them this year and I can't seem to get them to wear down at the rate I would like. To me it seems like a bit of a waste to get rid but I am always keen to improve the car.

Cost aside, does it make sense to get a set or should I just run these Pilot Sports into the ground before making the transition? In the dry I think the PSS are great, it's mainly the wet and the extra BHP I am worried about.

Thanks for all your thoughts!
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      03-07-2022, 05:56 PM   #2
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Best is to finish your tires and then upgrade directly to sport cup 2 tires. That is where you will really feel the difference on the track. I woudnt throw tires away if they still have thread, that would just be a waste.
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      03-07-2022, 07:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by shahano View Post
Best is to finish your tires and then upgrade directly to sport cup 2 tires. That is where you will really feel the difference on the track. I woudnt throw tires away if they still have thread, that would just be a waste.
I definitely wouldn’t get Cup 2s. They suck in the rain.

I traded my Contis in early for PS4Ss and couldn’t be happier.
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      03-07-2022, 09:28 PM   #4
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Yeah, Cup 2's in the wet is a dumb move.

If you're in the UK, see if you can get the new Conti SportContact 7. It's beating the now 4-y/o PS4S (what I have on my car), especially in the wet:

https://www.tire-reviews.com/Article...-Tire-Test.htm
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      03-08-2022, 11:06 AM   #5
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To make you wonder more... heh heh

There was a fairly recent youtube video out there from that TyreReviews channel. This guy is great & gives a ton of information. Really showcased the strengths in a lot of tires, surprising results. The new Continental Sport Contact 7 beat the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s.



#4: Goodyear F1-SuperSport (fast road tire, not the most balanced, not best in the wet)
#3: Bridgestone Potenza Sport (high wear/rolling resistance, lowest comfort)
#2: Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (consistent performer, comfortable tire, does everything well, not as much fun compared to #1)
#1: Continental Sport Contact 7 (best in dry & wet, most fun to drive)
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      03-08-2022, 11:34 AM   #6
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My only experience of PS4S was moving to these after MPSS on an F10 M5 an I hated them, zero feel and awful turn in.
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      03-08-2022, 12:13 PM   #7
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You lost me at "I track this car a lot."

Daily - PS4S destroys the PSS
Track - both are inadequate

You really should have 2 sets; PS4S for the daily drive, and your choice for the track. PSC2 would be my choice.
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      03-08-2022, 02:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
You lost me at "I track this car a lot."

Daily - PS4S destroys the PSS
Track - both are inadequate

You really should have 2 sets; PS4S for the daily drive, and your choice for the track. PSC2 would be my choice.
Sorry I should have mentioned that I picked the car up in January and it already had the PSS's on them at 8mm. Completely agree with this as a regular set-up. Ideally would run a set of forged alloys with the PSC2 for summer - never ran the PSC2 so would be interested in the grip level during summer months.
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      03-08-2022, 02:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCLG19 View Post
Sorry I should have mentioned that I picked the car up in January and it already had the PSS's on them at 8mm. Completely agree with this as a regular set-up. Ideally would run a set of forged alloys with the PSC2 for summer - never ran the PSC2 so would be interested in the grip level during summer months.
Unfortunately, used tires are pretty much worthless, so if you can run them out that'd be preferable, just be ultra careful in the rain.

Also, a lot of guys don't realize that if you use a Summer tire in temps under 45°F (7.2°C) you'll cause micro cracking, making them unsafe for further use, especially on track.

Regardless of what anyone on here tells you, the PSC2 is NOT a good choice for a Summer tire that may see rain, it will literally try to kill you. And not only that, they heat cycle so quickly that even with massive tread left they will be hard as a rock on track.

To do this right you'll need 3 sets of wheels/tires IMO.

1. Summer daily (PS4S)
2. Winter daily (your choice there, depends on how much snow you get)
3. Track tires (PSC2 is a pussycat, and lasts a long time)

Yes, the new CS7 seems to have knocked the PS4S off its perch, but we don't yet know the longevity of that tire. And the Goodyear Supercar tires are really nice as well, so if you could get a deal on those they would certainly work.

Just don't use a Summer tire in the wrong temp, and don't use a PSC2 as a daily.
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      03-09-2022, 04:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MASHCT View Post
To make you wonder more... heh heh

There was a fairly recent youtube video out there from that TyreReviews channel. This guy is great & gives a ton of information. Really showcased the strengths in a lot of tires, surprising results. The new Continental Sport Contact 7 beat the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s.



#4: Goodyear F1-SuperSport (fast road tire, not the most balanced, not best in the wet)
#3: Bridgestone Potenza Sport (high wear/rolling resistance, lowest comfort)
#2: Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (consistent performer, comfortable tire, does everything well, not as much fun compared to #1)
#1: Continental Sport Contact 7 (best in dry & wet, most fun to drive)
It's worth noting since we're talking BMW tires:



He likes the OE BMW compound way more than the regular PS4S
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      03-09-2022, 07:47 PM   #11
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You can do a decent amount of tracking on PS4S and be fine. Can set fast laps on them, they just don't handle heat the best.

If you're planning on tracking a lot, why not look into something like a 200tw endurance tire? Like the Hankook RS4. They last forever (plenty of road KMs + track days) and will give you decent rain performance, good track performance and many KMs on the daily commute.

For reference, I daily'd my RE71Rs last year, through plenty of sketchy rainy days on highway and some cold days (Canada RIP). I did around 10,000kms and 3 or 4 track days on them and they're at 6/32nds front 4/32nds rear, enough for another couple track days, would be sketchy on road though. RS4 will last much longer than these too.
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      03-10-2022, 02:39 AM   #12
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F1 supersport by Goodyear

Or hold out for contact 7 endurance reviews. But if you're low the Goodyear's, wet braking not the best is all.

Ps4s less sharp turn in and just slightly less granular on the edge of traction but wet grip is other worldly, ride quality a big step up from PSS think poor man's cpilovers, they are quieter at all speeds and look nice too the side profile that is
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      03-10-2022, 02:52 AM   #13
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Tyre choice

I had Michelin Super Sport fitted on my M2 Comp from new which I removed with only 1000 miles and replaced with the Michelin 4S hoping to see a big improvement. There's a difference in favour of the 4S but not worth swapping out tread remaining Super Sports. I'll refit and wear up the Super Sports at some point. Michelin Cup 2 tyres are not the wet weather nightmare they used to be, however they are quite harsh for a daily drive.
Although the Conti 7 did perform well in the Tyre review video consider the fact the test was held at the Continental testing facility which will play in favour of the Conti 7
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      03-10-2022, 03:43 AM   #14
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Finish the original set & make the upgrade.

For me it lasts longer, grips better & rides a bit smoother as well.

Basically what the entire world is saying but yeah. They're the upgrade they're said to be
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      03-10-2022, 02:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
Unfortunately, used tires are pretty much worthless, so if you can run them out that'd be preferable, just be ultra careful in the rain.

Also, a lot of guys don't realize that if you use a Summer tire in temps under 45°F (7.2°C) you'll cause micro cracking, making them unsafe for further use, especially on track.

Regardless of what anyone on here tells you, the PSC2 is NOT a good choice for a Summer tire that may see rain, it will literally try to kill you. And not only that, they heat cycle so quickly that even with massive tread left they will be hard as a rock on track.

To do this right you'll need 3 sets of wheels/tires IMO.

1. Summer daily (PS4S)
2. Winter daily (your choice there, depends on how much snow you get)
3. Track tires (PSC2 is a pussycat, and lasts a long time)

Yes, the new CS7 seems to have knocked the PS4S off its perch, but we don't yet know the longevity of that tire. And the Goodyear Supercar tires are really nice as well, so if you could get a deal on those they would certainly work.

Just don't use a Summer tire in the wrong temp, and don't use a PSC2 as a daily.
YES! I've been super paranoid about running my PS4S this winter as Seattle has been hovering around the low 40s since I bought them in November. I'm literally checking the weather report every day to see if it cracks 45F before I leave the garage.

I don't plan on tracking, but I've been very impressed with PS4S in the very few times I've been caught in heavy rain. I'm hoping to get a second set of wheels to run Conti DWS 06+ for colder temps. If I need snow tires, I'll take the STI out.
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      03-10-2022, 03:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spammysammich View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
Unfortunately, used tires are pretty much worthless, so if you can run them out that'd be preferable, just be ultra careful in the rain.

Also, a lot of guys don't realize that if you use a Summer tire in temps under 45°F (7.2°C) you'll cause micro cracking, making them unsafe for further use, especially on track.

Regardless of what anyone on here tells you, the PSC2 is NOT a good choice for a Summer tire that may see rain, it will literally try to kill you. And not only that, they heat cycle so quickly that even with massive tread left they will be hard as a rock on track.

To do this right you'll need 3 sets of wheels/tires IMO.

1. Summer daily (PS4S)
2. Winter daily (your choice there, depends on how much snow you get)
3. Track tires (PSC2 is a pussycat, and lasts a long time)

Yes, the new CS7 seems to have knocked the PS4S off its perch, but we don't yet know the longevity of that tire. And the Goodyear Supercar tires are really nice as well, so if you could get a deal on those they would certainly work.

Just don't use a Summer tire in the wrong temp, and don't use a PSC2 as a daily.
YES! I've been super paranoid about running my PS4S this winter as Seattle has been hovering around the low 40s since I bought them in November. I'm literally checking the weather report every day to see if it cracks 45F before I leave the garage.

I don't plan on tracking, but I've been very impressed with PS4S in the very few times I've been caught in heavy rain. I'm hoping to get a second set of wheels to run Conti DWS 06+ for colder temps. If I need snow tires, I'll take the STI out.
I have never seen cracking on Michelin tires from the cold. I also live in Seattle. I keep my PS4Ss on all year long.
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      03-11-2022, 12:08 PM   #17
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Use the opportunity to replace the tires and align the car with new rubber. The alignment will be more accurate and the handling balance of the car will not be altered by tire wear.

If you have already done four track days with the PSS, then the tires have already been heat cycled to a significant degree.

With my OEM PSS, the grip declined significantly from new even though the tread wore slowly. I replaced them at half tread.
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      03-15-2022, 04:33 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
You lost me at "I track this car a lot."

Daily - PS4S destroys the PSS
Track - both are inadequate

You really should have 2 sets; PS4S for the daily drive, and your choice for the track. PSC2 would be my choice.
That's what I thought before I had them on an M5, I sold the car shortly afterwards as all the feel, precision and turn in was lost. It might have gripped more I had no real confidence to try

I assume your quote is based on A_B experience ?
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      03-15-2022, 11:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrera2RS View Post
That's what I thought before I had them on an M5, I sold the car shortly afterwards as all the feel, precision and turn in was lost. It might have gripped more I had no real confidence to try

I assume your quote is based on A_B experience ?
Of course there is a difference in feel between the PSS and PS4S, the PS4S is really a completely different tire, and vastly more competent in the areas of rain and longevity. You pick your poison. The PSS is a loud, sticky 200 TW tire disguised in a 300 TW body, not at all meant for rain, and doesn't last.

Yes, I have personal experience with both tires
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      03-15-2022, 04:46 PM   #20
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Im happy with Cup2's, PSS's but wouldn't buy a PS4S again without a trial beforehand. Possible it was specific to an F10 m5, but the car changed from a sports car to a numb sedan
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      03-15-2022, 05:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrera2RS View Post
Im happy with Cup2's, PSS's but wouldn't buy a PS4S again without a trial beforehand. Possible it was specific to an F10 m5, but the car changed from a sports car to a numb sedan
That's not surprising. The cornering force vs slip angle graph for the PS4S has a lower slope vs the PSS although the PS4S goes on to exceed the peak tractive force of the PSS at the top of the graph. In other words, the PS4S feels "less responsive" to steering inputs compared to the PSS even though if you fully exploit the tire on track, it's faster than a PSS. The trade offs are that for that reduced response, the PS4S is more comfortable and quieter than the PSS. The other thing the PS4S has going for it is noticeably improved longitudinal traction/grip along with better grip in colder temperatures versus the PSS.
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      03-16-2022, 08:01 AM   #22
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Where do they pubish the force vs slip angle info, this takes me back to my automotive engineering degree days !
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