[nearwater4me]

You’ll be perfectly fine within a month of daily driving.
Just keep driving.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by Jyyuen17

At a stop and starting in first gear, everything I've read and watched recommend that for a stickshift car, the driver should rev the car to 1k-2k RPM and then slowly release the clutch.When I try to do this in the M2, it bucks violently. I don't know if this is because this is too much power?

Instead what I've been doing from a stop is not rev'ing the engine at all and then letting go of the clutch pedal until I hit the engagement point, which then starts moving the car. From here I start adding rev's to the engine and fully let go of the clutch pedal afterwards.

The problem with what I'm doing now is that I take off from a stop rather slowly. I'm trying to improve upon the take off time in event I need to start fast, but haven't been able to nail it.

Any advice?

It is likely everything you've read and heard is based on a linear clutch action. This car has a Clutch Delay Valve, which is basically a pinhole restriction in the hydraulic clutch mechanism that makes the clutch action NON-linear. It essentially functions to make the car nearly impossible to stall because it engages the clutch so slowly it allows you time to give the car gas. It's for complete beginners. However, it makes getting the feel of the engagement point, and thus learning how to drive the car properly, much more difficult. I had mine removed, and my shifts are much smoother.

Originally Posted by Moflow

The M2C has an anti-stall feature, you don't really have to rev it at all. Just releasing the clutch with no gas should not stall it and is acceptable in everyday driving. You might be able to release the clutch faster than you think with this method, as it feels like youre going to stall, but then the ECU automatically adds more gas. I still do traditional "rev it up to 1K-1.5K" sometimes out of habit, but really its all about timing. IF its jerky, you're releasing the clutch too quickly.

I believe this "anti-stall" feature is called the CDV . I seriously doubt the ECU automatically adds more gas. The reason you can release the clutch as fast as you want, and not stall the car, is because the clutch doesn't fully engage the engine due to the huge restriction from the CDV. It is possible to stall this car; you just have to do it slowly and not accidentally.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

I believe this "anti-stall" feature is called the CDV . I seriously doubt the ECU automatically adds more gas. The reason you can release the clutch as fast as you want, and not stall the car, is because the clutch doesn't fully engage the engine due to the huge restriction from the CDV. It is possible to stall this car; you just have to do it slowly and not accidentally.

While I agree that the CDV sucks, and I plan on removing it, the car does actually rev itself. It can easily be seen by very very slowly approaching the friction point, and you can watch the revs climb a couple hundred RPM.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by Conissah

While I agree that the CDV sucks, and I plan on removing it, the car does actually rev itself. It can easily be seen by very very slowly approaching the friction point, and you can watch the revs climb a couple hundred RPM.

You're right; that's in the ballpark of the auto rev-matching in my mind. I was thinking more along the lines of if you just release the clutch, and don't give it any gas at all, the car will eventually stall.

[doughboy]

OP - i think you're over analysing it.

I couldn't tell you what rpm i use, i certainly never look to see.

Try stop looking at revs and just do it by feel. Raising revs to 2k is really only for more aggressive start.

If you don't touch the gas then the anti stall raises the revs as you release the clutch so should be super easy.

Really 10 starts you should have it sussed unless there's a problem..

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by Jyyuen17

Thanks. Do you rev it to 1k-1.5k and let it fall while releasing the clutch?

I found it difficult to keep the rev constant around 1k-1.5k, for the whole duration of time as I release the clutch pedal. When I try to rev it, it's not consistent.

But is sounds like the general consensus is to rev the engine a little bit, just not sure if it need to be constantly at 1k-1.5k or rev it there then let it fall.

Don't drop revs while raising clutch, worst thing for bucking. But really clutch should be up at bite in a fraction of a second, just a quick foot movement.

And throttle applied accordingly.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by absessive

I must be doing it wrong then. I've almost always started from a complete stop in 2nd gear. 1st gear is pretty much for pulling into garage.

That's interesting. Sometimes i forget / choose not to select first at a stop or near stop and then try to pull away in 2nd. This requires an awfully long painfull clutch ride to avoid bogging down, not sure I'd call it pleasant...

[ROASTM]

Originally Posted by doughboy

That's interesting. Sometimes i forget / choose not to select first at a stop or near stop and then try to pull away in 2nd. This requires an awfully long painfull clutch ride to avoid bogging down, not sure I'd call it pleasant...

I'd second this - only times I'm starting in second is if likely going downhill and pulling away from a stop sign where I'm not fully stopping... oops.

I will say, driving the M2C compared to my e46 M - the clutch is drastically different. While neither car is hard to drive whatsoever, the M2C couldn't be easier with all the torque it has and the hill assist. That being said... I hate to admit, I somehow managed to stall the thing pulling out of the Welt garage on ED-pickup day - I think it was a combination of emotions, unfamiliarity with the car, and the hill assist activating when I wasn't expecting it (the hill coming out of the Welt is pretty steep). Needless to say I was incredibly embarrassed, and it hasn't happened since.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by ROASTM

I hate to admit, I somehow managed to stall the thing pulling out of the Welt garage on ED-pickup day - I think it was a combination of emotions, unfamiliarity with the car, and the hill assist activating when I wasn't expecting it (the hill coming out of the Welt is pretty steep). Needless to say I was incredibly embarrassed, and it hasn't happened since.

Haha. Always the way.

Stalls always happen at the worst moment. Like trying to look cool for the girls in years gone by..

Doh

M2 is pretty easy to pull away as it has a lot of torque at idle / low rpm due to large cc / rotating mass relative to car weight.

A smaller motor needs more gas, like golf gti even though golf is lighter.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by ROASTM

I'd second this - only times I'm starting in second is if likely going downhill and pulling away from a stop sign where I'm not fully stopping... oops.

I will say, driving the M2C compared to my e46 M - the clutch is drastically different. While neither car is hard to drive whatsoever, the M2C couldn't be easier with all the torque it has and the hill assist. That being said... I hate to admit, I somehow managed to stall the thing pulling out of the Welt garage on ED-pickup day - I think it was a combination of emotions, unfamiliarity with the car, and the hill assist activating when I wasn't expecting it (the hill coming out of the Welt is pretty steep). Needless to say I was incredibly embarrassed, and it hasn't happened since.

I'm 37 years old and i've never owned an automatic.

But probably once every few years, i'll stall my car when i'm not paying attention or something. It happens (though it hasn't happened with the M2)

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

I believe this "anti-stall" feature is called the CDV . I seriously doubt the ECU automatically adds more gas.

You'd be wrong then

Here's how i tested it: I park in an underground garage with a pretty steep ramp. I went halfway up that ramp, stopped, put the car in first and then slowly let out the clutch with my right foot nowhere near any of the pedals. Sure enough, car pulled away smoothly (albeit slightly slower than i would've liked.) I'm pretty sure you can't do zero-throttle hill starts in most other vehicles no matter how slowly you let the clutch out.

I believe the Carrera GT was one of the first cars to feature this technology. It apparently had such a light flywheel that trying to pull away from a stop any other way would cause the revs to zing up way higher than the driver would want from just the tiniest tap of the gas pedal.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by Moflow

But probably once every few years, i'll stall my car when i'm not paying attention or something.

You're my hero

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

I believe this "anti-stall" feature is called the CDV . I seriously doubt the ECU automatically adds more gas. The reason you can release the clutch as fast as you want, and not stall the car, is because the clutch doesn't fully engage the engine due to the huge restriction from the CDV. It is possible to stall this car; you just have to do it slowly and not accidentally.

With respect, do you have an M2C manual?

The anti stall is a DME controlled auto rev-raising feature. As you lift the clutch, just before bite (if you don't touch the gas) the idle goes up to about 1000, it's something I play with when bored / lazy in traffic, just using left foot clutch control to raise revs and move forward gently, works in second too.

You can't just drop the clutch it will stall, it simply raises the idle a little to give a smoother pull away if you are a bit lazy. Idles are so low these days with Dual mass flywheels to reduce idle fuel comsumption and allow super-low rpm running, if you loaded the flywheel at normal low idle it would probably stall or buck or just vibrate like hell.

Lots of manual cars do it these days it's not just a BMW "gone soft" idea. AFAIK Porsche and Mini use the auto start/stop to fire the started and prevent stalling no matter how ham fisted you are...

[MMMBRAP]

This sounds ridiculous, but when I drive, I have to take my left shoe off and operate the clutch with just socks on.

I'm only 5'7", and have the seat nearly all the way to the forward position to have optimum driving position. I've tried literally every combination of shoe I own and none is as good as just not wearing any shoes on my left foot, so I just keep my left shoe in the passenger seat footwell, lol.

When I first got my car I noticed having my shoe on made operating the clutch far more difficult. Back when I had my E34 540i 6MT I also had to this, lol.

Driving with my left shoe off surprisingly improves clutch feel/operation.

Also, when I shift, I never just release the clutch fully; the car tends to hate this, and I discovered it's best in a strange "two stage" release where I let it go halfway, pause, then let it all go in one swift motion. Keep in mind when I say "pause" I don't mean hold. Hard to explain with words.

[TrentMeister]

Interestingly enough after recently hacking the exhaust valves open, removing charcoal filter, as well as decoding ASD driving in efficient has become the smoothest and most natural, might I even say almost n/a feeling experience.

I do think adding MDM to the efficient setting makes a difference and I would suggest it.

Coming from an e36 m3 with a perfect driveline short shift kit with CDV and UCP it took me 15k miles before I really started to feel like I could hustle this car around smoothly. You'll get it but I will say it's been the most and probably only frustrating part of the ownership thus far.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by Moflow

I'm 37 years old and i've never owned an automatic.

But probably once every few years, i'll stall my car when i'm not paying attention or something. It happens (though it hasn't happened with the M2)



You'd be wrong then

Here's how i tested it: I park in an underground garage with a pretty steep ramp. I went halfway up that ramp, stopped, put the car in first and then slowly let out the clutch with my right foot nowhere near any of the pedals. Sure enough, car pulled away smoothly (albeit slightly slower than i would've liked.) I'm pretty sure you can't do zero-throttle hill starts in most other vehicles no matter how slowly you let the clutch out.

I believe the Carrera GT was one of the first cars to feature this technology. It apparently had such a light flywheel that trying to pull away from a stop any other way would cause the revs to zing up way higher than the driver would want from just the tiniest tap of the gas pedal.

Originally Posted by doughboy

With respect, do you have an M2C manual?

The anti stall is a DME controlled auto rev-raising feature. As you lift the clutch, just before bite (if you don't touch the gas) the idle goes up to about 1000, it's something I play with when bored / lazy in traffic, just using left foot clutch control to raise revs and move forward gently, works in second too.

You can't just drop the clutch it will stall, it simply raises the idle a little to give a smoother pull away if you are a bit lazy. Idles are so low these days with Dual mass flywheels to reduce idle fuel comsumption and allow super-low rpm running, if you loaded the flywheel at normal low idle it would probably stall or buck or just vibrate like hell.

Lots of manual cars do it these days it's not just a BMW "gone soft" idea. AFAIK Porsche and Mini use the auto start/stop to fire the started and prevent stalling no matter how ham fisted you are...

I do have a 6MT M2C, and stand corrected about the DME. Although, as I mentioned, i was referring more to the fact that if you dump the clutch, the car will stall; the DME will not give it enough gas to have the car in cruise control.

Yes, all the MT cars have gone soft; there are so many nannies that it's hard to stall and so easy to drive. I tried to make mine a little less soft: I did the CDV delete, the UCP, and a short shift kit. Feels much better

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

I do have a 6MT M2C, and stand corrected about the DME. Although, as I mentioned, i was referring more to the fact that if you dump the clutch, the car will stall; the DME will not give it enough gas to have the car in cruise control.

Yes, all the MT cars have gone soft; there are so many nannies that it's hard to stall and so easy to drive. I tried to make mine a little less soft: I did the CDV delete, the UCP, and a short shift kit. Feels much better

Yes it only gives it a tickle to help you out, it won't save you completely.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by MMMBRAP

This sounds ridiculous, but when I drive, I have to take my left shoe off and operate the clutch with just socks on.

I'm only 5'7", and have the seat nearly all the way to the forward position to have optimum driving position. I've tried literally every combination of shoe I own and none is as good as just not wearing any shoes on my left foot, so I just keep my left shoe in the passenger seat footwell, lol.

When I first got my car I noticed having my shoe on made operating the clutch far more difficult. Back when I had my E34 540i 6MT I also had to this, lol.

Driving with my left shoe off surprisingly improves clutch feel/operation.

Also, when I shift, I never just release the clutch fully; the car tends to hate this, and I discovered it's best in a strange "two stage" release where I let it go halfway, pause, then let it all go in one swift motion. Keep in mind when I say "pause" I don't mean hold. Hard to explain with words.

I don't do this with shoes on, but if I'm wearing flip flops I do remove them as well. The ones that I buy are really foamy (super comfy) but also makes it really hard to feel what the clutch is doing. A long time back I fractured my ankle and had to drive with a boot on. Even though the action is the same that lack of feel made it look like this was my first day driving a manual. So definitely know where you are coming from.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by MMMBRAP

This sounds ridiculous, but when I drive, I have to take my left shoe off and operate the clutch with just socks on.

That does sound ridiculous, but i see where you're coming from. The first time I drove in my racing boots, i couldn't believe how much better feel I got under my foot vs normal shoes. My race car has a spring operated rather than hydraulic clutch and I always have a little difficulty moving it around smoothly in street clothes when i'm not racing. Once i have my gear and shoes on, it becomes much easier to operate smoothly.

[Karmic Man]

Sometimes after a dip in the water at the beach I drive bare feet.

The amount of ride signal I got from the clutch vs with shoe on was like day and night.

I still remember those S2000s I drove 20 years ago...no low end torque + low engagement point = easy stall

Those Exedy single plate metal clutches on JDMs were also not as easy to modulate. Twin plates and triples were much better. Those brass buttons dinosaurs were the worst, either on or off...fortunately they got phased out by the multi-plates eventually

[243Racing]

Originally Posted by Kankles

Rev to redline, release clutch quickly, avoid trees. (AKA "spray and pray")

Just kidding, that was from the mustang manual, which some BMW owners erroneously use from time to time.

go to an empty parking lot and practice a bit, you'll get it.

Basically came to say this, haha.

Redline.
Dump.
#Sendit

[kpham]

I don't mean to thread jack but if I'm chirping my tires in second gear, does that mean I'm holding on to first gear too long?

[xxyion]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

I still remember those S2000s I drove 20 years ago...no low end torque + low engagement point = easy stall

Now i'm really curious to see how it will be when i get my M2C. I currently drive an S2000 and the M2 will become my new daily while the S2k is designated to track duty. However this will also be the first car i've ever owned with more than 4 cylinders and also the first car i've ever owned that has more than 250 hp. Its a lot of firsts for me. I find the S2k very easy to drive and i've never stalled it once. But i'm curious how that will change once i start driving my M2C