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      03-16-2020, 11:51 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911sanantone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I've been running the stock plastic charge pipe for going in 4 years with a JB4 & Dinan Stage 1, at different times, seasons and temperatures, including a lot of 3am, "spirited" driving, in Mexico, of course - yet, never had a single issue..

I don't want to say that the OEM pipe on BMWs are flawless because there have been some notable examples of them cracking and it would not be fair to the folks that experienced unwarranted failure but I would venture to say this is mostly an issue to be addressed, if pushing a higher mileage vehicle or above-average boost levels.

After all the fear-mongering that was disperse here, throughout the years, regarding this potential failure, I was expecting it pop, at any given moment. I even had backup duct tape, replacement clamps and couplers, ready to go but ultimately I never needed it.

I still have warranty left, so I'm going to ride out the risk of it failing over replacing it with an aluminum pipe because of a few reasons.

One, being that a metal pipe would severely heat-soak over plastic and I believe it's kind of asinine that aftermarket aluminum pipes are claiming ultimate durability, when some utilizes silicone couplers and elbows, which is a form of rubber, vulnerable to expansion or ballooning.. It's almost seems like they're trading one potential design flaw for another and disguising this glaring fact.

Also, the end connect of an aluminum pipe retaining the OEM C-clip doesn't make a flexible mating hold to TB/housing, as the plastic pipe contours and does. Metal to metal would never flex and could potentially slip out, when vibrated.

Ultimately, the plastic pipe has been good to me and if it ever pops, I'm just going to chuck it up to wear and tear and replace it with an OEM piece..

Physics arguments aside, I suspect nominal performance differences between plastic and aluminium in real world use. The idea of the stock charge pipe cracking and possibly leaving one stranded is reason enough to upgrade. I am strongly considering the purchase of a charge pipe and this thread raises (again?) an interesting question. Does changing a charge pipe put a warranty at risk?. Poochie seems to suggest it does but he runs JB4/Dinan Stage I. I would think that a tune would be far riskier for voiding a warranty compared to changing a charge pipe or IC. Thoughts?
Since this subject popped up, I've done some research and found that plastic charge pipes are used by all auto manufactures with turbo-charged motors (Subaru, Mercedes, Ford, ect), which might be susceptible to cracking, over time.. Yet, that doesn't faze them from using it.

Just like a condom, sometimes it's going to break..

When the time comes, change it and move on..

However, I don't trust any of the aftermarket companies that currently manufacture aluminum pipe and silicone coupler, so I'll stick to OEM.. If it crack, it cracks, like whatever..
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      03-16-2020, 06:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Only N55, the S55 uses a different system..
Thanks for the info Poochie. My little flag for New Notifications doesn't work half the time
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      03-16-2020, 08:42 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Since this subject popped up, I've done some research and found that plastic charge pipes are used by all auto manufactures with turbo-charged motors (Subaru, Mercedes, Ford, ect), which might be susceptible to cracking, over time.. Yet, that doesn't faze them from using it.

Just like a condom, sometimes it's going to break..

When the time comes, change it and move on..

However, I don't trust any of the aftermarket companies that currently manufacture aluminum pipe and silicone coupler, so I'll stick to OEM.. If it crack, it cracks, like whatever..
For high volume plastic injection mold is going to be much cheaper than aluminum and silicone couplers.
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      03-17-2020, 10:56 AM   #48
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Do people feel masata gear is any good? Evolve did a recent quick product over view on YT of N55 chargepipe, looked ok but the finish to me always looks odd like it's slippery lol.

Imran mentioned CNC machined end adaptor points but don't really know what is standard anyway?
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      03-17-2020, 03:15 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Do people feel masata gear is any good? Evolve did a recent quick product over view on YT of N55 chargepipe, looked ok but the finish to me always looks odd like it's slippery lol.

Imran mentioned CNC machined end adaptor points but don't really know what is standard anyway?
Based on the YouTube video, the Masata type looks to me to almost certainly be either be an exact copy, or a re-branding (more likely) of the FTP pipe. The finish is identical, and so are the fittings for TMAP etc. Interestingly, even the meth bung plugs are identical to the FTP, and they're awful. They don't seal properly, and should be replaced with inexpensive 1/8 NPT plugs rather than those stupid bolts with O-rings that they provide.

The FTP pipe is fine, and a good compromise between cost and functionality. I replaced the meth bung plugs that I mentioned above, and the terrible cheap jubilee clamps with upgraded parts (and sold them with it), which made it much better.

What I didn't like about it, and the only reason I sold it, is that the upper meth bung is pointing directly at the TMAP sensor. This makes it totally unusable, and is simply not well thought out. As soon as the water / meth injection starts, it sprays onto the TMAP sensor and gives an artificially low temperature reading. In extreme cases, like flooring it from a standstill, this would put the engine in limp mode because of an unfeasible change in IAT over such a short duration.

I swapped mine for an ER product, and I think theirs is the best charge pipe available for the N55. A little more expensive, but the quality is top notch, and the meth bungs are in a much better location.

Yes, all the end adaptors on charge pipes that I've ever seen are CNC machined... nothing new there.
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      03-17-2020, 03:44 PM   #50
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Thanks for that info, sort of confirms my gut feeling that masata is a lower rate part.

The evolution is well regarded but overpriced for what it is.

I'm probably between ftp, forge and do88
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      03-17-2020, 03:46 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Thanks for that info, sort of confirms my gut feeling that masata is a lower rate part.

The evolution is well regarded but overpriced for what it is.

I'm probably between ftp, forge and do88
I'm not sure I'd say it's lower rate, but less well thought out.

FTP = Masata... If you're thinking FTP, make sure to budget for the screws and clamps to make it better. Also don't buy if you're ever going to do WMI (which I strongly recommend by the way - don't know why it seems to have a stigma).
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      03-17-2020, 06:00 PM   #52
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I'm not doing wmi seems mad to me the whole extra tank complication and stuff. I love my car sure and modding it but it's my daily!

NVM in the UK have a stage three M2 N55 at 600+bhp. In one of their videos they installed a forge charge pipe, I asked why and they said they only use products they trust.

I've used a forge intake before and it was well made tbf

So between them and do88 now!
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      03-17-2020, 06:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
I'm not doing wmi seems mad to me the whole extra tank complication and stuff. I love my car sure and modding it but it's my daily!

NVM in the UK have a stage three M2 N55 at 600+bhp. In one of their videos they installed a forge charge pipe, I asked why and they said they only use products they trust.

I've used a forge intake before and it was well made tbf

So between them and do88 now!
Fair enough, I didn't intend to go off topic, but btw... I use WMI with the washer fluid reservoir (no extra tank), and it's my daily. You have UK fuel though so you probably don't need to worry about WMI. The fuel in the US is woeful and I need it to get peak performance even out of the stock M2 map.

I've seen the NVM post and I'm thinking of getting in touch with them. I'm not expecting to get anywhere near the 600 bhp that they get, but the big turbo kit looks really interesting.

My biggest concern right now is the lag between shifts with 6MT... that will likely have a bigger impact that the extra power anyway!
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      03-17-2020, 06:38 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Based on the YouTube video, the Masata type looks to me to almost certainly be either be an exact copy, or a re-branding (more likely) of the FTP pipe. The finish is identical, and so are the fittings for TMAP etc. Interestingly, even the meth bung plugs are identical to the FTP, and they're awful. They don't seal properly, and should be replaced with inexpensive 1/8 NPT plugs rather than those stupid bolts with O-rings that they provide.

The FTP pipe is fine, and a good compromise between cost and functionality. I replaced the meth bung plugs that I mentioned above, and the terrible cheap jubilee clamps with upgraded parts (and sold them with it), which made it much better.

What I didn't like about it, and the only reason I sold it, is that the upper meth bung is pointing directly at the TMAP sensor. This makes it totally unusable, and is simply not well thought out. As soon as the water / meth injection starts, it sprays onto the TMAP sensor and gives an artificially low temperature reading. In extreme cases, like flooring it from a standstill, this would put the engine in limp mode because of an unfeasible change in IAT over such a short duration.

I swapped mine for an ER product, and I think theirs is the best charge pipe available for the N55. A little more expensive, but the quality is top notch, and the meth bungs are in a much better location.

Yes, all the end adaptors on charge pipes that I've ever seen are CNC machined... nothing new there.
If the meth bung plugs on the FTP are leaking a little, does that impact performance?
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      03-17-2020, 07:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
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If the meth bung plugs on the FTP are leaking a little, does that impact performance?
It makes the turbo work harder to maintain the target boost. As long as it's only a little, and you're not running a tune that targets a high boost value, maybe not.

I wouldn't think it would be something you'd want to 'let slide' though.
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      03-18-2020, 04:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911sanantone View Post
Physics arguments aside, I suspect nominal performance differences between plastic and aluminium in real world use. The idea of the stock charge pipe cracking and possibly leaving one stranded is reason enough to upgrade. I am strongly considering the purchase of a charge pipe and this thread raises (again?) an interesting question. Does changing a charge pipe put a warranty at risk?. Poochie seems to suggest it does but he runs JB4/Dinan Stage I. I would think that a tune would be far riskier for voiding a warranty compared to changing a charge pipe or IC. Thoughts?
To my surprise, I got a call today from the dealer and they replaced the charge pipe under warranty. And serviced the car at the same time. I really was expecting a bit of push back from them seeing as it has a bolt-on part they'd have noticed when doing the service and the charge pipe replacement.
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      03-18-2020, 05:10 PM   #57
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Don't get why you guys in US have crap fuel as a military and economic super power nation?!
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      03-18-2020, 05:13 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Don't get why you guys in US have crap fuel as a military and economic super power nation?!
I think it's due to several factors:
  • Government sponsors corn growers which results in lots of corn ethanol
  • Many states have smog limits which reduce the number of lighter hydrocarbons that are often used to raise octane
  • Price
  • Older american cars had huge, low compression engines, which don't need high octane
Just my thoughts... I'm British by the way, and miss the fuel... and the country lanes!
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      03-19-2020, 01:52 PM   #59
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ah but I see these smoking tyre videos in 'the canyons' with great tarmac, views, weather and no caravans.
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      03-21-2020, 07:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
To my surprise, I got a call today from the dealer and they replaced the charge pipe under warranty. And serviced the car at the same time. I really was expecting a bit of push back from them seeing as it has a bolt-on part they'd have noticed when doing the service and the charge pipe replacement.
Good news. Glad that your dealer did the right thing. Has anyone had a dealer refuse to cover repairs under warranty because of the discovery of a replaced charge pipe, IC and/or tune ?
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