BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > Charge pipe cracked

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-06-2020, 12:05 PM   #23
detroitm2
Lieutenant Colonel
detroitm2's Avatar
United_States
1429
Rep
1,517
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
What if you covered your metal pipe with heat resistant cover, wouldnt that fix the heatsoak issue?
Lets not start calling it an "issue". Its not based on any kind of actual testing.

But, if it was an issue, a heat-resistant cover would certainly "fix" it.
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2020, 12:13 PM   #24
3t3p
Lieutenant
85
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Sorry yours cracked I really should sort mine out but want to do FBO when I do and that's 's! Need to decorate the house first!
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2020, 11:30 AM   #25
XutvJet
Brigadier General
2846
Rep
3,621
Posts

Drives: 2016 M235 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kansas City

iTrader: (-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post

your also over exaggerating the aluminum pipe heating the air. The air thats going to the charge pipe is already cooled by the intercooler and is traveling at a very high speed at a very short distance. i doubt the fact the charge pipe is metal will have much of a effect on intake temps...the intercooler would have most the influence on that.

I have vrsf aluminum charge pipe and csf intercooler and my intake temps are already 20 degrees cooler then stock and at a higher boost level.
During normal driving and with little throttle, there is hardly any air moving through the intake and intercooler piping. Thus piping heat soaking is a very real thing. Not until you're actually using moderate to heavy throttle do the IAT start dropping significantly and closer to ambient temp. Most guys only data log under full throttle and if they actually datalogged during normal driving, they'd see a very different picture, regardless if they had an upgraded charge pipe and/or IC. A metal charge pipe will most definitely retain more heat during normal stop and go traffic.

I wish some vendor would just make a hinged plastic clamp that fits completley around the OEM charge pipe neck at the throttle body. It would support and strengthen the failure points and would be cheaper and easier to install plus it would be far better at dealing with heat soak and sealing for boost leaks.
Appreciate 1
Poochie4561.50

      03-07-2020, 12:20 PM   #26
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
4562
Rep
5,010
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post

your also over exaggerating the aluminum pipe heating the air. The air thats going to the charge pipe is already cooled by the intercooler and is traveling at a very high speed at a very short distance. i doubt the fact the charge pipe is metal will have much of a effect on intake temps...the intercooler would have most the influence on that.

I have vrsf aluminum charge pipe and csf intercooler and my intake temps are already 20 degrees cooler then stock and at a higher boost level.

I wish some vendor would just make a hinged plastic clamp that fits completley around the OEM charge pipe neck at the throttle body. It would support and strengthen the failure points and would be cheaper and easier to install plus it would be far better at dealing with heat soak and sealing for boost leaks.
Same here, I was waiting for the day a reputable company like maybe Dinan engineered a replacement pipe, that doesn't heat soak and also retains factory style O-ring throttle body lock flange, possibly, without the use of a silicone coupler.

However, when I inquired, I was informed they had no plans to design a replacement pipe and seeing that the N55 was discontinued with the 2018 M2, at this juncture, that's wishful thinking.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2020, 02:39 PM   #27
Anthony1s
Lieutenant Colonel
1244
Rep
1,830
Posts

Drives: 2018 Mineral Grey M2
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Pennsylvania

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
During normal driving and with little throttle, there is hardly any air moving through the intake and intercooler piping. Thus piping heat soaking is a very real thing. Not until you're actually using moderate to heavy throttle do the IAT start dropping significantly and closer to ambient temp. Most guys only data log under full throttle and if they actually datalogged during normal driving, they'd see a very different picture, regardless if they had an upgraded charge pipe and/or IC. A metal charge pipe will most definitely retain more heat during normal stop and go traffic.

I wish some vendor would just make a hinged plastic clamp that fits completley around the OEM charge pipe neck at the throttle body. It would support and strengthen the failure points and would be cheaper and easier to install plus it would be far better at dealing with heat soak and sealing for boost leaks.
During normal driving with little throttle in stop and go traffic, you are not stressing the engine limits enough for heat soak to matter. The timing tables and boost aren't being pushed at such low rpm. Idle heat soak has no effect.
__________________
Click "Appreciate" on my post if I was helpful. Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2020, 12:11 AM   #28
TemjinX2
Major
491
Rep
1,422
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M2
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Las Vegas,NV

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
During normal driving and with little throttle, there is hardly any air moving through the intake and intercooler piping. Thus piping heat soaking is a very real thing. Not until you're actually using moderate to heavy throttle do the IAT start dropping significantly and closer to ambient temp. Most guys only data log under full throttle and if they actually datalogged during normal driving, they'd see a very different picture, regardless if they had an upgraded charge pipe and/or IC. A metal charge pipe will most definitely retain more heat during normal stop and go traffic.

I wish some vendor would just make a hinged plastic clamp that fits completley around the OEM charge pipe neck at the throttle body. It would support and strengthen the failure points and would be cheaper and easier to install plus it would be far better at dealing with heat soak and sealing for boost leaks.
even completely stock the iat will be 20-30 degrees higher then ambient temp...that the general short comings of air to air system.


Your basing your statements on elementary physics and looking at the whole system. BMW uses a combination of mechanical, electrical and software for the cars propulsion.

until you do the research on how the bmw dme works, air to air systems and the n55, your not going to get it.

This will be my last post about the issue.
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2020, 09:12 PM   #29
Mark2016MG
New Member
United_States
17
Rep
8
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2, 6 speed, Mineral Grey
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: St. Petersburg, FL

iTrader: (0)

Mine broke at the throttle body at 35,000 miles. It's a manual with a JB4 box. Replaced under warranty last week (took out the JB4 box and reverted all the Bimmer code changes before bringing it in). Supposedly it's a new design, but I haven't looked at it closely. I have a BMS aluminum ready to install once the warranty is up in June.
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2020, 10:01 PM   #30
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
4562
Rep
5,010
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark2016MG View Post
Mine broke at the throttle body at 35,000 miles. It's a manual with a JB4 box. Replaced under warranty last week (took out the JB4 box and reverted all the Bimmer code changes before bringing it in). Supposedly it's a new design, but I haven't looked at it closely. I have a BMS aluminum ready to install once the warranty is up in June.
Your dealer is telling tales, the OEM charge pipe has not been revised since it was release in 2010.



.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2020, 10:26 AM   #31
MZWIE
Lieutenant Colonel
316
Rep
1,652
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: GEORGIA

iTrader: (0)

Any aftermarket charge pipe will only be as good as the soft couplings. So why bother.
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2020, 03:56 PM   #32
PackPride85
Major
United_States
768
Rep
1,223
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MZWIE View Post
Any aftermarket charge pipe will only be as good as the soft couplings. So why bother.
Because those silicone couplings don't crack.
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2020, 04:44 PM   #33
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
4562
Rep
5,010
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MZWIE View Post
Any aftermarket charge pipe will only be as good as the soft couplings. So why bother.
Because those silicone couplings don't crack.
Really? So you're saying that silicone is stronger and less heat-resistant than hard plastic..

Good luck with all that because it might not fail right away but over many heat cycles, it's susceptible to ballooning and expanding over time.. I know this from experience (radiator silicone pipe)..
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2020, 08:52 PM   #34
PackPride85
Major
United_States
768
Rep
1,223
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Really? So you're saying that silicone is stronger and less heat-resistant than hard plastic..

Good luck with all that because it might not fail right away but over many heat cycles, it's susceptible to ballooning and expanding over time.. I know this from experience (radiator silicone pipe)..
It's stronger, more heat resistant, and has a lower coefficient of expansion.

Using silicone hoses for radiators on non-race cars is pointless and actually can cause issues since silicone is permeable to water vapor.
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2020, 10:42 PM   #35
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
4562
Rep
5,010
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Really? So you're saying that silicone is stronger and less heat-resistant than hard plastic..

Good luck with all that because it might not fail right away but over many heat cycles, it's susceptible to ballooning and expanding over time.. I know this from experience (radiator silicone pipe)..
It's stronger, more heat resistant, and has a lower coefficient of expansion.

Using silicone hoses for radiators on non-race cars is pointless and actually can cause issues since silicone is permeable to water vapor.
Fair enough.. I still have my doubts about silicone coupling and elbow being used for the charge pipe..
Appreciate 0
      03-12-2020, 11:29 PM   #36
Wattens
Private
35
Rep
53
Posts

Drives: OG M2, 4C, Bentley GT
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Sydney, Aus/London UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I've been running the stock plastic charge pipe for going in 4 years with a JB4 & Dinan Stage 1, at different times, seasons and temperatures, including a lot of 3am, "spirited" driving, in Mexico, of course - yet, never had a single issue..

I don't want to say that the OEM pipe on BMWs are flawless because there have been some notable examples of them cracking and it would not be fair to the folks that experienced unwarranted failure but I would venture to say this is mostly an issue to be addressed, if pushing a higher mileage vehicle or above-average boost levels.

After all the fear-mongering that was disperse here, throughout the years, regarding this potential failure, I was expecting it pop, at any given moment. I even had backup duct tape, replacement clamps and couplers, ready to go but ultimately I never needed it.


I still have warranty left, so I'm going to ride out the risk of it failing over replacing it with an aluminum pipe because of a few reasons.

One, being that a metal pipe would severely heat-soak over plastic and I believe it's kind of asinine that aftermarket aluminum pipes are claiming ultimate durability, when some utilizes silicone couplers and elbows, which is a form of rubber, vulnerable to expansion or ballooning.. It's almost seems like they're trading one potential design flaw for another and disguising this glaring fact.

Also, the end connect of an aluminum pipe retaining the OEM C-clip doesn't make a flexible mating hold to TB/housing, as the plastic pipe contours and does. Metal to metal would never flex and could potentially slip out, when vibrated.

Ultimately, the plastic pipe has been good to me and if it ever pops, I'm just going to chuck it up to wear and tear and replace it with an OEM piece..
Mine just popped an hour ago. Stock tune with DV and pod filter. 40,000km 2016 OG. I was in moderate traffic not giving it much at all but in no traction control mode.

I'm about to gaff it up, and I bought metal charge pipes in December when I was in the States last because I knew it would happen. Should still be covered by the warranty (expires in June) so will get BMW to replace it as it's due a service anyway, and then put the metal on so it doesn't pop again...
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2020, 12:21 PM   #37
MZWIE
Lieutenant Colonel
316
Rep
1,652
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: GEORGIA

iTrader: (0)

I seriously doubt they are providing the high quality silicone. I work for a chemical company that specializes in silicon based materials. I can tell you that the really good stuff is very expensive.
Appreciate 1
      03-14-2020, 06:49 PM   #38
akkando
Brigadier General
3358
Rep
4,458
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

I really only hear about problems with the OEM one. Aftermarket metal ones have popped off from a bad install though. Never heard anyone complain that they notice the car is slower after install, so same throttle response is better.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2020, 08:32 PM   #39
3t3p
Lieutenant
85
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Aftermarket silicone charge pipes ok or metal preferable?
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2020, 10:41 PM   #40
detroitm2
Lieutenant Colonel
detroitm2's Avatar
United_States
1429
Rep
1,517
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Aftermarket silicone charge pipes ok or metal preferable?
Aftermarket chargepipes are metal. But there's a silicon connector that goes with it.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2020, 10:37 AM   #41
3t3p
Lieutenant
85
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Was looking at do88 half is metal and half silicone..no coupler
Appreciate 1
JTO242531.50

      03-15-2020, 05:47 PM   #42
911sanantone
Registered
0
Rep
4
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M2, 2001 330
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: San Antonio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I've been running the stock plastic charge pipe for going in 4 years with a JB4 & Dinan Stage 1, at different times, seasons and temperatures, including a lot of 3am, "spirited" driving, in Mexico, of course - yet, never had a single issue..

I don't want to say that the OEM pipe on BMWs are flawless because there have been some notable examples of them cracking and it would not be fair to the folks that experienced unwarranted failure but I would venture to say this is mostly an issue to be addressed, if pushing a higher mileage vehicle or above-average boost levels.

After all the fear-mongering that was disperse here, throughout the years, regarding this potential failure, I was expecting it pop, at any given moment. I even had backup duct tape, replacement clamps and couplers, ready to go but ultimately I never needed it.

I still have warranty left, so I'm going to ride out the risk of it failing over replacing it with an aluminum pipe because of a few reasons.

One, being that a metal pipe would severely heat-soak over plastic and I believe it's kind of asinine that aftermarket aluminum pipes are claiming ultimate durability, when some utilizes silicone couplers and elbows, which is a form of rubber, vulnerable to expansion or ballooning.. It's almost seems like they're trading one potential design flaw for another and disguising this glaring fact.

Also, the end connect of an aluminum pipe retaining the OEM C-clip doesn't make a flexible mating hold to TB/housing, as the plastic pipe contours and does. Metal to metal would never flex and could potentially slip out, when vibrated.

Ultimately, the plastic pipe has been good to me and if it ever pops, I'm just going to chuck it up to wear and tear and replace it with an OEM piece..

Physics arguments aside, I suspect nominal performance differences between plastic and aluminium in real world use. The idea of the stock charge pipe cracking and possibly leaving one stranded is reason enough to upgrade. I am strongly considering the purchase of a charge pipe and this thread raises (again?) an interesting question. Does changing a charge pipe put a warranty at risk?. Poochie seems to suggest it does but he runs JB4/Dinan Stage I. I would think that a tune would be far riskier for voiding a warranty compared to changing a charge pipe or IC. Thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2020, 06:34 PM   #43
Killed by Death
HMFIC
Killed by Death's Avatar
United_States
356
Rep
484
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

is this just a n55 thing? or S55 too?
__________________
2020 M2C, HS, Black 788M, Exec.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2020, 11:47 AM   #44
Poochie
Luxury at the redline :)
Poochie's Avatar
United_States
4562
Rep
5,010
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
is this just a n55 thing? or S55 too?
Only N55, the S55 uses a different system..
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST