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      02-18-2020, 02:58 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
Thanks all. Can someone school me what the GFB DV+ actually does? How hard is it to install? Also, does it put much stress on the turbo or any other downsides?
Standard DV has a rubber diaphragm which will age with time/use/heat cycles. GFB DV+ uses OEM DV body but replaces the rubber component and can be configured with or wo main spring.

I run it with spring and had whilst stock and also with BM3 stg293 Oct OTS.

What I noticed from my logs was that at high boost levels, oem DV would "flutter" and DME would see this and reign in timing/boost etc to minimise the "flutter" effect. With GFB DV+ there is zero flutter, no CEL [stock or BM3'd], boost remains stable for longer and throttle response is better throughout the rev range.

Yes its a PITA to install but did mine whilst upgrading FMIC/boost pipes and Pure hi flo inlet so access was easier. Minor point but GFB DV+ is ~ 50% of the cost of TS dual DV/BOV.

OP - in terms of keeping lag in check, ER boost pipes [smooth ID and larger bore] + Pure hi flo inlet + dry drop in air filter will help esp offsetting any inherent lag caused by bigger I/cooler - in my case CSF.
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      02-18-2020, 05:42 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by David.m View Post
Just wondering if you're car is DCT or manual? Manual's have a software caused delay with WOT shifts, feels like turbo lag but isn't. Fix is to hold wot to 6K+ rpm then shift.
Is that really a software thing? I thought it was because the diverter valve dumps the boost as soon as you let off, which is necessary for shifting, and that then requires boost to re-build once you're WOT again.

I can't explain the 6K+ shift thing, because that is definitely a partial solution.

If it truly is a software thing, I'm surprise that tuners haven't solved this issue. I'll be completely honest about this... it's absolutely the worst thing about this car. I absolutely hate the lag when up shifting... If a software fix was all that was necessary, I'd pay good money to have it!
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      02-18-2020, 09:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I don't understand why people talk these up. Aren't they pneumatic, meaning they vent slower than the OEM and DV+ options. Also aren't they binary open/close, meaning they won't decrease lag as the progressive DV+ would? Also they have one single port option, which vents entirely to atmostphere, leading to increased lag. The other dual port option vents partially to atmosphere, which still leads to more lag over the OEM and DV+ option which don't vent to atmosphere at all. I may be wrong, but the turbosmart options seem catered more towards turbo sounds than actual improved performance.

Considering they are electronic and use signals from the ECU to open and close a solenoid, then no they aren't pneumatic lol

The Turbosmart one replaces the stock unit entirely. Bolts and plugs straight in to the existing OEM wiring and bolt patern.

I put this one in and even without a tune i'm getting close to 10kw more peak power and boost coming on slightly earlier (due to making a complete seal unlike the OEM part). It bleeds off pressure rather than dumping it like the OEM does.

And when it comes time to sell the car, i'll put the OEM DV back on and put the Turbosmart part on ebay and get at least half or more of my money back.

I keep forgetting about the responce and lack of lag as I had this installed soon after I bought the car, but there was a very noticeable improvement in turbo lag and responsiveness as well.

https://www.turbosmart.com/product/k...vr2-dual-port/

Last edited by Wattens; 02-18-2020 at 09:59 PM..
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      02-18-2020, 10:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
Considering they are electronic and use signals from the ECU to open and close a solenoid, then no they aren't pneumatic lol

The Turbosmart one replaces the stock unit entirely. Bolts and plugs straight in to the existing OEM wiring and bolt patern.

I put this one in and even without a tune i'm getting close to 10kw more peak power and boost coming on slightly earlier (due to making a complete seal unlike the OEM part). It bleeds off pressure rather than dumping it like the OEM does.

And when it comes time to sell the car, i'll put the OEM DV back on and put the Turbosmart part on ebay and get at least half or more of my money back.

I keep forgetting about the responce and lack of lag as I had this installed soon after I bought the car, but there was a very noticeable improvement in turbo lag and responsiveness as well.

https://www.turbosmart.com/product/k...vr2-dual-port/
Thanks. TS never responded to my questions so I never got a confirmation if it was pneumatic or not.

The OEM diverter valve doesn't leak lol. If they did, people would know. You'd see higher WGDC, you won't reach target boost, you'll get an underboost CEL, etc. TS saying it leaks from the factory is marketing nonsense. And even Pure dynos their turbos with the OEM valve...

By design, the dual port introduces more lag than the OEM unit because it vents to atmosphere. This isn't even questionable. The boost that was built up is vented off, then needs to be rebuilt after throttle is reapplied. It is not physically possible for the dual port to reduce lag.

How does this BOV handle the CEL it may cause?
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      02-18-2020, 11:11 PM   #27
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Iím not sure youíll get a CEL from venting to atmosphere, youíll just be running rich by the amount of air thatís vented. This probably isnít a big problem, but you will be increasing lag, as you said.

Boost pressure is measured way downstream from the DV, so any leaks / better sealing would only be noticed if you werenít meeting or are now better meeting boost target. Youíd be able to tell that from logs, but not from dyno or butt dyno.
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      02-18-2020, 11:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I’m not sure you’ll get a CEL from venting to atmosphere, you’ll just be running rich by the amount of air that’s vented. This probably isn’t a big problem, but you will be increasing lag, as you said.

Boost pressure is measured way downstream from the DV, so any leaks / better sealing would only be noticed if you weren’t meeting or are now better meeting boost target. You’d be able to tell that from logs, but not from dyno or butt dyno.
I'm not saying you'll get a CEL from venting to atmosphere. I'm saying the DME will recognize different diverter valve function and interpret it as a malfunction and issuing a CEL. It is possible a CEL can happen due to venting too much boost off at once, but that wasn't what I was implying. The DFB DV+ does this and offers a different configuration to prevent the CEL. Turbosmart is only available in one configuration and doesn't mention anything about the CEL.
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      02-18-2020, 11:20 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I'm not saying you'll get a CEL from venting to atmosphere. I'm saying the DME will recognize different diverter valve function and interpret it as a malfunction and issuing a CEL. The DFB DV+ does this and offers a different configuration to prevent the CEL.
I think in theory that is possible, but I have the DV+ with spring fitted and never had a CEL.

The DV+ with spring holds some boost, and that may cause a CEL but it never has for me. Without the spring itís only a better seal / sturdy construction. No performance benefit unless the stock valve is old and worn out.
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      02-19-2020, 02:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
I think in theory that is possible, but I have the DV+ with spring fitted and never had a CEL.
Ditto for me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
The DV+ with spring holds some boost, and that may cause a CEL but it never has for me.
Ditto for me too.
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      02-19-2020, 07:05 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I'm not saying you'll get a CEL from venting to atmosphere. I'm saying the DME will recognize different diverter valve function and interpret it as a malfunction and issuing a CEL. It is possible a CEL can happen due to venting too much boost off at once, but that wasn't what I was implying. The DFB DV+ does this and offers a different configuration to prevent the CEL. Turbosmart is only available in one configuration and doesn't mention anything about the CEL.
They do offer a plumb back version that I think would alleviate your additional lag concern? But Iím not an expert on these things.
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      02-19-2020, 05:34 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Is that really a software thing? I thought it was because the diverter valve dumps the boost as soon as you let off, which is necessary for shifting, and that then requires boost to re-build once you're WOT again.

I can't explain the 6K+ shift thing, because that is definitely a partial solution.

If it truly is a software thing, I'm surprise that tuners haven't solved this issue. I'll be completely honest about this... it's absolutely the worst thing about this car. I absolutely hate the lag when up shifting... If a software fix was all that was necessary, I'd pay good money to have it!
Confess the software explanation is only what I've read elsewhere in the forum and where I learnt of the 6K+ shifting which does work. As you say it's very frustrating especially in situations when you would like to shift earlier. I think I've read the same issue affects the M2C?
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      02-19-2020, 10:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I'm not saying you'll get a CEL from venting to atmosphere. I'm saying the DME will recognize different diverter valve function and interpret it as a malfunction and issuing a CEL. It is possible a CEL can happen due to venting too much boost off at once, but that wasn't what I was implying. The DFB DV+ does this and offers a different configuration to prevent the CEL. Turbosmart is only available in one configuration and doesn't mention anything about the CEL.

No CEL for me and I've been running the Turbosmart Dual Port since last September with BMS Air Intake. Coming up to 6 months.

Turbosmart has two options, a full recirculating option, and a dual-port option which releases SOME of the air to atmosphere, I doubt it's releasing much, it makes a hard sound but that's probably due to the design to make the sound, rather than dumping heaps of air out of the system.

And of course there is turbo leak, have you played around with the stock Pierburg valve? The end of it that seals is a rigid floating plastic seal, the turbosmart product seals completely with billet and a rubber O-ring at the end to make a complete seal, and the metal piston sits recessed inside.

To me the evidence is clear that my stock DV was leaking boost even though I originally bought this for the noise. Turbosmart never sold this to me under the pretense of extra power, but the before and after dyno run showed increased max power and the turbo kicking in harder from 4,000rpm according to multiple dyno runs. The boost difference at 4,750 rpm was 12.7psi fairly costantly over and over on stock DV versus 13.5psi at the same RPM's over and over with the Turbosmart unit installed.

The lag is definitely 100% improved, the stock DV in my case was definitely leaking boost and I had no idea until the part was replaced with something better.
As I mentioned in my previous post, to me the after install throttle response is improved. I get what your saying about the dual-port losing some air and in theory, should be less responsive, but you do know in different driving modes the DV opens and closes at different times. What I've noticed is the valve opens and vents to atmosphere the most in MDM or comfort mode. In Sports+ the valves (stock or aftermarket) hardly open and when they do, it's closed quickly. I'm driving a DCT, maybe this is why I'm not noticing reduced throttle response and in fact seemingly improved throttle response probably because my boost curve has been brought forward?
I'd expect there to be a bigger difference with manual cars simply because of it taking longer to shift gears giving the BOV more time to vent. In DCT going up the gears and not releasing your foot for gear changes means the valve isn't having to open at all anyway. Maybe? I guess? I'm not an expert, I'm just applying some logic and actual first-hand experience to this thread.

The other thing is how much air is being lost from the system? Is it enough to cause a NOTICEABLE effect in turbo responsiveness? Maybe on a test rig it can be measured, maybe at F1 level where 1:100ths of a second count, but in reality how many people have actually noticed a drop in responsiveness from vent to atmosphere versus full recirculation? I never have and I've been playing with turbo cars since the mid-1990s, my first car was an R33 GTR. I've been through a lot of turbo cars and never once felt the difference between vent to atmosphere versus recirculation.

Theory is one thing, but it's what actually happens in real life that counts.
In theory, a 911 isn't meant to work very well, drive a GT3 and tell me the theory of an engine hanging out behind the rear axle is meant to be a bad thing?

I've written a lot, someone is going to find a flaw in what I've written. But the reality is, however it does it, and whatever the theory says about it, it works great in reality. With increased power, earlier boost, great vent to atmosphere sound, in my case improved (or worst case the same) throttle response, and when I'm done with it I can put it on eBay and get most of my money back. I'm just grinning ear to ear.

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      02-20-2020, 10:00 AM   #34
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No CEL for me and I've been running the Turbosmart Dual Port since last September with BMS Air Intake. Coming up to 6 months.

Turbosmart has two options, a full recirculating option, and a dual-port option which releases SOME of the air to atmosphere, I doubt it's releasing much, it makes a hard sound but that's probably due to the design to make the sound, rather than dumping heaps of air out of the system.

And of course there is turbo leak, have you played around with the stock Pierburg valve? The end of it that seals is a rigid floating plastic seal, the turbosmart product seals completely with billet and a rubber O-ring at the end to make a complete seal, and the metal piston sits recessed inside.

To me the evidence is clear that my stock DV was leaking boost even though I originally bought this for the noise. Turbosmart never sold this to me under the pretense of extra power, but the before and after dyno run showed increased max power and the turbo kicking in harder from 4,000rpm according to multiple dyno runs. The boost difference at 4,750 rpm was 12.7psi fairly costantly over and over on stock DV versus 13.5psi at the same RPM's over and over with the Turbosmart unit installed.

The lag is definitely 100% improved, the stock DV in my case was definitely leaking boost and I had no idea until the part was replaced with something better.
As I mentioned in my previous post, to me the after install throttle response is improved. I get what your saying about the dual-port losing some air and in theory, should be less responsive, but you do know in different driving modes the DV opens and closes at different times. What I've noticed is the valve opens and vents to atmosphere the most in MDM or comfort mode. In Sports+ the valves (stock or aftermarket) hardly open and when they do, it's closed quickly. I'm driving a DCT, maybe this is why I'm not noticing reduced throttle response and in fact seemingly improved throttle response probably because my boost curve has been brought forward?
I'd expect there to be a bigger difference with manual cars simply because of it taking longer to shift gears giving the BOV more time to vent. In DCT going up the gears and not releasing your foot for gear changes means the valve isn't having to open at all anyway. Maybe? I guess? I'm not an expert, I'm just applying some logic and actual first-hand experience to this thread.

The other thing is how much air is being lost from the system? Is it enough to cause a NOTICEABLE effect in turbo responsiveness? Maybe on a test rig it can be measured, maybe at F1 level where 1:100ths of a second count, but in reality how many people have actually noticed a drop in responsiveness from vent to atmosphere versus full recirculation? I never have and I've been playing with turbo cars since the mid-1990s, my first car was an R33 GTR. I've been through a lot of turbo cars and never once felt the difference between vent to atmosphere versus recirculation.

Theory is one thing, but it's what actually happens in real life that counts.
In theory, a 911 isn't meant to work very well, drive a GT3 and tell me the theory of an engine hanging out behind the rear axle is meant to be a bad thing?

I've written a lot, someone is going to find a flaw in what I've written. But the reality is, however it does it, and whatever the theory says about it, it works great in reality. With increased power, earlier boost, great vent to atmosphere sound, in my case improved (or worst case the same) throttle response, and when I'm done with it I can put it on eBay and get most of my money back. I'm just grinning ear to ear.
"To me the evidence is clear that my stock DV was leaking boost"

Do you mind sharing the evidence? There are tons of people running 18psi on the stock diverter valve with no issue.

"The boost difference at 4,750 rpm was 12.7psi fairly costantly over and over on stock DV versus 13.5psi at the same RPM's over and over with the Turbosmart unit installed."

I'm sorry, but this is impossible. The valve is controlled by the DME to release boost when the car is above target. A different valve will not make more boost. And if there was a leak, you would not see more boost either by swapping, as the DME will close the valve more to reach the target boost. If you do see more boost than the target, you will get an overboost CEL. The only way you'll see higher boost is with a tune to change the target.

"but you do know in different driving modes the DV opens and closes at different times. What I've noticed is the valve opens and vents to atmosphere the most in MDM or comfort mode. In Sports+ the valves (stock or aftermarket) hardly open and when they do, it's closed quickly"

So let's say different driving modes open and close the valve different. I agree it does that, less boost in comfort mode for less power. However, changing your valve is going to change how and when the DME open/closes the valve. Like I said above, there is a boost target the DME adheres to. Also, not sure if you were implying it or not, but with the dual port model, the DME does not decide how much gets vented to atmosphere and how much gets diverter back into the intake. It is a static rate at which both ports are open. I think it's 50/50 between them. Unless you wire in a separate control for each, but that isn't what is happening here.

"but in reality how many people have actually noticed a drop in responsiveness from vent to atmosphere versus full recirculation?"

Everyone?
https://www.google.com/search?q=vent...hrome&ie=UTF-8

"and when I'm done with it I can put it on eBay and get most of my money back. I'm just grinning ear to ear."

This point is moot because you're gonna spend more on labor swapping the part to sell on ebay than you will get for it.

"Theory is one thing, but it's what actually happens in real life that counts."

That's kind've a weird belief. It's the theory that makes people believe something will work before they attempt it. No one built an electric car without a theory it will work first.

Overall, seems like a bunch of snake oil you're pushing. Which is what I get every time I ask question about the TS product.

But really, the most important question is... What is the advantage to the TS valve over the cheaper GFB DV+? Let's say the plumb back works just as well as the GFB DV+, I'm not saying it doesn't, why should someone purchase it over the DV+?
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      02-20-2020, 07:40 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
"To me the evidence is clear that my stock DV was leaking boost"

Do you mind sharing the evidence? There are tons of people running 18psi on the stock diverter valve with no issue.
I do mind sharing the evidence actually, you are arguing that the sky isn't blue so why should I bother?

"The boost difference at 4,750 rpm was 12.7psi fairly costantly over and over on stock DV versus 13.5psi at the same RPM's over and over with the Turbosmart unit installed."

I'm sorry, but this is impossible. The valve is controlled by the DME to release boost when the car is above target. A different valve will not make more boost. And if there was a leak, you would not see more boost either by swapping, as the DME will close the valve more to reach the target boost. If you do see more boost than the target, you will get an overboost CEL. The only way you'll see higher boost is with a tune to change the target.
Cool story

"but you do know in different driving modes the DV opens and closes at different times. What I've noticed is the valve opens and vents to atmosphere the most in MDM or comfort mode. In Sports+ the valves (stock or aftermarket) hardly open and when they do, it's closed quickly"

So let's say different driving modes open and close the valve different. I agree it does that, less boost in comfort mode for less power. However, changing your valve is going to change how and when the DME open/closes the valve. Like I said above, there is a boost target the DME adheres to. Also, not sure if you were implying it or not, but with the dual port model, the DME does not decide how much gets vented to atmosphere and how much gets diverter back into the intake. It is a static rate at which both ports are open. I think it's 50/50 between them. Unless you wire in a separate control for each, but that isn't what is happening here.
I've read further about the dual ports and they are meant to be staged, meaning, when you are driving around town the valve opens but as it's not opening as much it recirculates, when there is more pressure it vents to both recirculation and atmosphere biassed to recirc

"but in reality how many people have actually noticed a drop in responsiveness from vent to atmosphere versus full recirculation?"

Everyone?
https://www.google.com/search?q=vent...hrome&ie=UTF-8
cool story, a few internet warriors say so, so it must be true the internet also mostly says cold air intakes ad 25hp

"and when I'm done with it I can put it on eBay and get most of my money back. I'm just grinning ear to ear."

This point is moot because you're gonna spend more on labor swapping the part to sell on ebay than you will get for it.

Or I can spend a couple of hours on a weekend taking the DV and the charge pipes and intercooler and dump pipe off putting it back to stock and selling them online, definitely well worth doing, and taking them off and going back to stock is so much easier and quicker to do then putting aftermarket stuff on

"Theory is one thing, but it's what actually happens in real life that counts."

That's kind've a weird belief. It's the theory that makes people believe something will work before they attempt it. No one built an electric car without a theory it will work first.

Is it? Again all the theory about car design goes against what Porsche actually proves to work, what about wing theory? Wing theory tries to explain how the wing of a plane works, we know a wing design works but don't actually know for sure how it really works, it's still a theory and not proven. There are more factors going on in the background of turbo systems than what you have simply put, I do wish my knowledge on the subject was better to really get into it, but I'll leave it here as I don't like making things up for the sake of a discussion at the risk of creating another automotive rumor

Overall, seems like a bunch of snake oil you're pushing. Which is what I get every time I ask question about the TS product.
I'm not pushing anything and never have, I simply stated my experience to which you had an issue with I get it, you don;t like BOV's, good for you, others do and if it gives me the sound I want and extra power with an earlier boost, then where is the issue? It's my money, I can spend it how I like

But really, the most important question is... What is the advantage to the TS valve over the cheaper GFB DV+? Let's say the plumb back works just as well as the GFB DV+, I'm not saying it doesn't, why should someone purchase it over the DV+?
Oh, you're one of "those" forum users?

How dare I speak of my own first-hand experience with this product in my car?

What do you want me to say? The increased power, torque, boost and boost curve moving forward even though it's been recorded by dyno and logs (dyno OBD logs) and my feeling of the before and after are all just in my head?

I'll not share my personal experiences with new products for our cars going forward. Clearly you already know it all

Yet another forum bully who hasn't any first-hand experience with a particular product telling those who have used the product that their results are wrong lol

Why do I care if other people are running 18psi on the stock DV? Good for them? I didn't originally know I was only getting 12.7psi when it looks like I should have been getting 13.5psi? Maybe they are running 18psi when they should be getting more if they didn't have the leak?
Again I ask if you have actually seen how these things seal? It's two hard surfaces trying to seal, it's like having a plastic cup of water, you turn it upside down and try and seal it closed to the metal surface of a sink, sure it will seal enough, but you will be losing water slowly, just like how the OEM valve "seals".
As I originally mentioned I bought it for the sound, I did before and after dyno originally for the BMS air intake as the internet says very mixed things about air intakes, according to some "internet experts" I would see a drop in power, other "internet experts" said no change in power and other "internet experts" said I would see an increase in power.
I've got access to a fully enclosed atmospherically sealed and fully controlled hub dyno (I've got dozens and dozens of engine bay testing rigs at my disposal, but that's a lot harder to do having to pull the engine out of the car and get a hold of when OEM's are paying a lot of money to use them) and actual real-world automotive engineering experts (not just grease monkeys) at work as I work for Exxon Mobil Lubricants so it doesn't cost me anything other than my time to do it.

On stock tune (car is currently still stock) the BMS air intake made no difference to power, torque, boost, anything really. Other than a louder induction sound $450AUD for sound.

The Turbosmart unit made a difference worth mentioning and I wasn't expecting it to happen. I share my experience and then I get ridiculed by someone on the internet telling me it's impossible?

I'm not too worried though, I literally know EVERYTHING there is to know about lubricants, and I still get "internet experts" trying to school me on the basics of what oil to put in a particular car

Mate I've got metal charge pipes, a decat and an intercooler ready to put on the car and will have it tuned at the same time. I'd like to share my first-hand experience and findings on the parts with other forum users, but now I'm worried I'll offend an internet expert?

Didn't you originally think this product was a pneumatic product rather than an electronic product and that it was 100% vent to atmosphere? You didn't even know what the product was originally, yet you still had an opinion on it

[QUOTE=Anthony1s;25830366]" Aren't they pneumatic, meaning they vent slower than the OEM and DV+ options. Also aren't they binary open/close, meaning they won't decrease lag as the progressive DV+ would? Also, they have one single port option, which vents entirely to atmostphere, leading to increased lag."

Anthony, you and people like you are the reason people like me who could be providing useful first-hand information about our vehicles and modifications to them don't bother posting anymore. I'm literally here giving my first hand experience and you're now out to get me? Or GFB? or Turbosmart? I'm not even sure you know who you are after anymore?

As for GFB vs Turbosmart, they are usually the same thing, I haven't spent much time on the GFB option in a while, months ago I decided to try Turbosmart and thus far no issues and i'm happy with the sound I get and bonus extra power

As for one over another, in this case it's not for me to say, I haven't used the DV+ in this car.

Both will probably do a similar job, one is a plug and play and you can revert to stock easily, and the other you need to fiddle with the OEM part for it to work and if you want to go back to stock you'll need to buy a new OEM part and I guess could mean a potential warranty claim issues if it's the wrong OEM version maybe? just a thought?

Basically I like the product, it does what it's meant to do, plus I got more out of it than expected which makes me feel good about my purchase.

Have fun replying, I've had enough of Mr know it all and I'm grown up enough to now move on until the next forum troll has a go at me for simply stating my valid experience.
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      02-20-2020, 11:28 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
Oh, you're one of "those" forum users?

How dare I speak of my own first-hand experience with this product in my car?

What do you want me to say? The increased power, torque, boost and boost curve moving forward even though it's been recorded by dyno and logs (dyno OBD logs) and my feeling of the before and after are all just in my head?

I'll not share my personal experiences with new products for our cars going forward. Clearly you already know it all

Yet another forum bully who hasn't any first-hand experience with a particular product telling those who have used the product that their results are wrong lol

Why do I care if other people are running 18psi on the stock DV? Good for them? I didn't originally know I was only getting 12.7psi when it looks like I should have been getting 13.5psi? Maybe they are running 18psi when they should be getting more if they didn't have the leak?
Again I ask if you have actually seen how these things seal? It's two hard surfaces trying to seal, it's like having a plastic cup of water, you turn it upside down and try and seal it closed to the metal surface of a sink, sure it will seal enough, but you will be losing water slowly, just like how the OEM valve "seals".
As I originally mentioned I bought it for the sound, I did before and after dyno originally for the BMS air intake as the internet says very mixed things about air intakes, according to some "internet experts" I would see a drop in power, other "internet experts" said no change in power and other "internet experts" said I would see an increase in power.
I've got access to a fully enclosed atmospherically sealed and fully controlled hub dyno (I've got dozens and dozens of engine bay testing rigs at my disposal, but that's a lot harder to do having to pull the engine out of the car and get a hold of when OEM's are paying a lot of money to use them) and actual real-world automotive engineering experts (not just grease monkeys) at work as I work for Exxon Mobil Lubricants so it doesn't cost me anything other than my time to do it.

On stock tune (car is currently still stock) the BMS air intake made no difference to power, torque, boost, anything really. Other than a louder induction sound $450AUD for sound.

The Turbosmart unit made a difference worth mentioning and I wasn't expecting it to happen. I share my experience and then I get ridiculed by someone on the internet telling me it's impossible?

I'm not too worried though, I literally know EVERYTHING there is to know about lubricants, and I still get "internet experts" trying to school me on the basics of what oil to put in a particular car

Mate I've got metal charge pipes, a decat and an intercooler ready to put on the car and will have it tuned at the same time. I'd like to share my first-hand experience and findings on the parts with other forum users, but now I'm worried I'll offend an internet expert?

Didn't you originally think this product was a pneumatic product rather than an electronic product and that it was 100% vent to atmosphere? You didn't even know what the product was originally, yet you still had an opinion on it

Aren't they pneumatic, meaning they vent slower than the OEM and DV+ options. Also aren't they binary open/close, meaning they won't decrease lag as the progressive DV+ would? Also, they have one single port option, which vents entirely to atmostphere, leading to increased lag."[/B]

Anthony, you and people like you are the reason people like me who could be providing useful first-hand information about our vehicles and modifications to them don't bother posting anymore. I'm literally here giving my first hand experience and you're now out to get me? Or GFB? or Turbosmart? I'm not even sure you know who you are after anymore?

As for GFB vs Turbosmart, they are usually the same thing, I haven't spent much time on the GFB option in a while, months ago I decided to try Turbosmart and thus far no issues and i'm happy with the sound I get and bonus extra power

As for one over another, in this case it's not for me to say, I haven't used the DV+ in this car.

Both will probably do a similar job, one is a plug and play and you can revert to stock easily, and the other you need to fiddle with the OEM part for it to work and if you want to go back to stock you'll need to buy a new OEM part and I guess could mean a potential warranty claim issues if it's the wrong OEM version maybe? just a thought?

Basically I like the product, it does what it's meant to do, plus I got more out of it than expected which makes me feel good about my purchase.

Have fun replying, I've had enough of Mr know it all and I'm grown up enough to now move on until the next forum troll has a go at me for simply stating my valid experience.
This isn't about denying personal experiences. It's about me trying to figure out if I should buy this over the DV+ but whenever I asked questions about it and bring up concerns I have or things I'm trying to understand so I can make an informed decision, I get told I'm being unreasonable and the people I ask the questions to (the ones who have the experience and write about it here) get combative with me.

And come on now. You can't accuse me of denying your personal experiences (which I haven't. I asked for clarification of them. You just twist it around into me somehow denying them) then deny they tons of forum posts I've shown of other people's personal experiences saying otherwise and tons of technical articles explaining what you're describing as psychically impossible. That's hypocritical.

There is seriously 11 years of use of the OEM diverter valve our cars come with. I'm going to take experience of 11 years of forums posts and documentation and evidence of it's operation over your anecdotal evidence of "I just know they all leak".

If you have such easy access to these dynos and research facilities you claim to have, you would post your evidence of your claims. Not hard.

And did I think the TS was originally pneumatic?... no, I asked you if it was because another forum member pushing the product was telling me it was and telling me it vented 100% to atmosphere. Which is partly why I started questioning everything and trying to find the right answers... Again, only to be met with responses like yours telling me I shouldn't question things and just trust you and buy the product and see for myself.

I don't really see why you're ridiculing me for asking questions to decide which I should buy, other than the questions I'm asking are too much and might expose the snake oil selling from people pushing the product.

You do realize 95% of your post history is you bashing the DV+ and talking up the TS product, right?

It's weird too, because just above you claim you've never used the DV+ plus so you can't give a recommendation on which is better. However in this post here, you claim how the DV+ wrecked your car... hmm.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...25&postcount=4

So, I'll just drop the mic like that.
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      03-01-2020, 10:15 AM   #37
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So, where’d we end up as the best option—DV+ with spring, or the Turbosmart with full plumb back?
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      03-01-2020, 11:26 AM   #38
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Sometimes at low speed in first I try to apply throttle smoothly and the car feathers/see-saws with power forward. Anything to do with the stock valve?

This is at low to no boost however.
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      03-01-2020, 02:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
So, where'd we end up as the best option—DV+ with spring, or the Turbosmart with full plumb back?
I'm still wrestling with the difficulty or cost of install and whether it's worth it without already upgrading the turbo.
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      03-01-2020, 10:20 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
I'm still wrestling with the difficulty or cost of install and whether it's worth it without already upgrading the turbo.
I posted a while back about this... The answer is complex. Where I found it to offer an advantage was not so much between shifts (6MT), but on and off the gas in the same gear.

What I mean is if you're waiting to overtake, for example, and you're already in the appropriate gear, when you floor it, the boost pressure will already be built and held and you'll surge forward.

I'm still investigating it, and will post a new thread about it soon, but I think what we all feel is turbo lag between shifts (6MT) is actually the DME not allowing boost to build for some reason. The DV+ (and alternatives) don't help with this as all because boost is lowered by the waste gate and not the diverter valve.
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      03-01-2020, 10:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Sometimes at low speed in first I try to apply throttle smoothly and the car feathers/see-saws with power forward. Anything to do with the stock valve?

This is at low to no boost however.
Yes, I'd agree that the torque curve isn't totally smooth through the revs, and this is most apparent in lower gears because you feel it more. The tune you have will affect this though. The stock valve shouldn't affect this at all.

The M2 has a stock valve which is already an upgrade over other N55 engines - it's the DV from the N20 I believe. It is made of plastic, but it's not hard material against hard material. There is rubber in there too, and I'm confident that it seals just as well as the upgraded parts, and the manufacturers of those parts will I'm sure agree.

The DV+ has an optional spring which allows it to hold some of the boost where the stock valve would release it all. Without the spring, it's an upgrade in as much as it's less likely to fail being made of machined metal rather than plastic, it's not an upgrade because it seals better.

I know less about the Turbosmart product, but again, I don't believe it will seal any better than stock, but is almost certainly an upgrade in terms of reliability.
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      03-02-2020, 03:00 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Sometimes at low speed in first I try to apply throttle smoothly and the car feathers/see-saws with power forward. Anything to do with the stock valve?

This is at low to no boost however.
As per our PM 2-way on M3cutters forum - do TBA reset and you will find throttle responses smoother/more progressive
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      03-02-2020, 03:11 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecitizen View Post
I'm still wrestling with the difficulty or cost of install and whether it's worth it without already upgrading the turbo.
I run GFB DV+, on stock (turbo and HPFP) hardware both std and BM3 stg 2 93 OTS maps, and support what Nezil says above re building/holding boost.

Nezil's car is MT mine is DCT. IMHO DCT seems to benefit from DV+ more than MT, based Nezil's comments about DME delay/swapping gears etc and my 1st hand exp of my DCT car.

My car's DME and TCU seems to tweak less parameters when swapping cogs wrt boost control - ie less spikes/dips in boost/timing/fuel trims with GFB DV+ vs stock DV.
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      03-02-2020, 06:37 AM   #44
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A couple of the F30 guys and Kies are saying the Turbosmart is giving them better throttle response than DV+, but I don’t know—I haven’t had either one:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1692603
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