BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > MY 2018+ s55 crank hub issue

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-10-2019, 08:55 AM   #1
armiii
New Member
2
Rep
21
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: republic

iTrader: (0)

MY 2018+ s55 crank hub issue

Hello,

This is the question everyone has in mind, i have read all topics of course technical discussions how much i don't understand;

About s55 crank hub, what is common opinion? Did bmw make an update on my2018+ s55 engines?

For example, does it progress like this;

possibility stock %0,1
possibility stage1+ %5
possibility stage2+ %25
Appreciate 0
      10-10-2019, 09:44 AM   #2
Megator
First Lieutenant
Megator's Avatar
149
Rep
342
Posts

Drives: M2 Competition
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NL

iTrader: (0)

No one has that info, not even BMW.

A part was updated but I think previous to 2018, in any case post 2018 engines can also suffer from this issue.

In theory the forces on the crank hub should not change with a tune (they are dependent on the valvetrain).

Want to be safe till your warranty runs out? Then don't tune the car under warranty!
Appreciate 0
      10-11-2019, 09:09 PM   #3
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by armiii View Post

For example, does it progress like this;

possibility stock %0,1
possibility stage1+ %5
possibility stage2+ %25
I heard the M2C is far more susceptible to SCH due to their low hanging udder.
Appreciate 4
M2 Alex51.00
5.M0NSTER878.00
Robin_NL5069.50

      10-12-2019, 12:07 AM   #4
F87source
Major
F87source's Avatar
Canada
482
Rep
1,165
Posts

Drives: 2017 Bmw M2 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mm2 View Post
I heard the M2C is far more susceptible to SCH due to their low hanging udder.
Wait I don't think this makes sense, also what does low hanging udder even mean?

The engines are exactly the same between the M2C, M3, and M4, with the exception that the M2C is also detuned compared to the other two. Logical reasoning would deem that since power causes an increase in spun crank hubs, a detuned car would make it less likely to occur. So therefore the M2C should ideally have a lower chance of a spun crank hub compared to the M3 and M4 and should even have a little bit of tuning head space before the risk level exceed or catch up to what the M3 and M4 experience.

If you're talking about low hanging udder as in the car is low that is irrelevant to the spun crank hub issue, that is another cause for concern in oil cooler damage from road debris. But this issue is easily fixed with the various underbody guards for sale. Or being extremely cautious and alert to any road debris and high points you may be driving over. Pretty much just being used to driving a low car.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram @f87source
Appreciate 1
Robin_NL5069.50

      10-12-2019, 02:48 AM   #5
MR RIZK
Captain
MR RIZK's Avatar
Australia
366
Rep
759
Posts

Drives: AW M2C
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

F87source poster is being sarcastic and referring to the low hanging exhaust at the rear on the M2C.
__________________
Previous Rides: 13' 135i, 08' 130i, 03' HKS Turbo'd 350z, Modded GC8 WRX, NA MX5
Appreciate 4
F87source482.00
chris7193295.00
Robin_NL5069.50

      10-12-2019, 02:50 AM   #6
F87source
Major
F87source's Avatar
Canada
482
Rep
1,165
Posts

Drives: 2017 Bmw M2 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR RIZK View Post
F87source he is being sarcastic and referring to the low hanging exhaust at the rear on the M2C.
Ahh that makes sense now, thanks for the clarification.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram @f87source
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 04:37 AM   #7
chris719
Brigadier General
3295
Rep
3,674
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
No one has that info, not even BMW.

A part was updated but I think previous to 2018, in any case post 2018 engines can also suffer from this issue.

In theory the forces on the crank hub should not change with a tune (they are dependent on the valvetrain).

Want to be safe till your warranty runs out? Then don't tune the car under warranty!
BMW definitely has this data. BMW very likely has probability distribution graphs of the torque required to spin the friction washer. You'll never see it and they will never admit there is an issue with some engines.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 04:59 AM   #8
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR RIZK View Post
F87source poster is being sarcastic and referring to the low hanging exhaust at the rear on the M2C.
Bless you...
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 05:04 AM   #9
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Wait I don't think this makes sense, also what does low hanging udder even mean?

The engines are exactly the same between the M2C, M3, and M4, with the exception that the M2C is also detuned compared to the other two. Logical reasoning would deem that since power causes an increase in spun crank hubs, a detuned car would make it less likely to occur. So therefore the M2C should ideally have a lower chance of a spun crank hub compared to the M3 and M4 and should even have a little bit of tuning head space before the risk level exceed or catch up to what the M3 and M4 experience.

If you're talking about low hanging udder as in the car is low that is irrelevant to the spun crank hub issue, that is another cause for concern in oil cooler damage from road debris. But this issue is easily fixed with the various underbody guards for sale. Or being extremely cautious and alert to any road debris and high points you may be driving over. Pretty much just being used to driving a low car.
While I agree with you, there have been cases of stock SCH on M2C.

As far as the oil cooler is concerned I feel it's potentially a bigger risk.

None of this compares to the psychological trauma caused by prolonged exposure to seeing the udder. I believe a class action suit is warranted here, I mean really, WTF??
Appreciate 1
      10-12-2019, 09:00 AM   #10
BroDoze
Captain
76
Rep
685
Posts

Drives: Stuff
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Wait I don't think this makes sense, also what does low hanging udder even mean?

The engines are exactly the same between the M2C, M3, and M4, with the exception that the M2C is also detuned compared to the other two. Logical reasoning would deem that since power causes an increase in spun crank hubs, a detuned car would make it less likely to occur. So therefore the M2C should ideally have a lower chance of a spun crank hub compared to the M3 and M4 and should even have a little bit of tuning head space before the risk level exceed or catch up to what the M3 and M4 experience.

If you're talking about low hanging udder as in the car is low that is irrelevant to the spun crank hub issue, that is another cause for concern in oil cooler damage from road debris. But this issue is easily fixed with the various underbody guards for sale. Or being extremely cautious and alert to any road debris and high points you may be driving over. Pretty much just being used to driving a low car.
Show me any sort of proof more power causes more crank spun hubs.
Tons of completely stock M2Cs have had the issue. Any shock to the drivetrain can cause it. An over-rev on a down shift has caused it on a stock M2C.
Think about it - what would more power have anything to do with it.
I think a small percentage of S55s will just be more likely to have the problem. This could be due to some manufacturing tolerance or assembly difference or very slight material difference in the parts.
I think the perfect combination of one of these susceptible S55s and driving style/incidents with cause the problem.
A very smart tech said to me if your car is in that 1% that’s going to spin it’s hub, it doesn’t matter if you’re stock or modded or DCT or 6MT, it’s gonna happen at some point.
__________________
///M

Last edited by BroDoze; 10-12-2019 at 09:09 AM..
Appreciate 1
M2 Alex51.00

      10-12-2019, 10:25 AM   #11
ChrisK
Major General
ChrisK's Avatar
United_States
3750
Rep
7,290
Posts

Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland (West)

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDoze View Post
Show me any sort of proof more power causes more crank spun hubs.
Tons of completely stock M2Cs have had the issue. Any shock to the drivetrain can cause it. An over-rev on a down shift has caused it on a stock M2C.
Think about it - what would more power have anything to do with it.
I think a small percentage of S55s will just be more likely to have the problem. This could be due to some manufacturing tolerance or assembly difference or very slight material difference in the parts.
I think the perfect combination of one of these susceptible S55s and driving style/incidents with cause the problem.
A very smart tech said to me if your car is in that 1% that’s going to spin it’s hub, it doesn’t matter if you’re stock or modded or DCT or 6MT, it’s gonna happen at some point.
I agree that is most likely, "due to some manufacturing tolerance or assembly difference or very slight material difference in the parts."

Tons? Can you please post your data and sources for this? Otherwise - please don't spread rumors.

To date I know of two M2C cars that reported having a SCH. Considering how many S55 M2C's have been built to date - that's nothing.
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
Appreciate 1
M2PDX877.50

      10-12-2019, 11:01 AM   #12
SEAT TIME RULES
HAZMAT
SEAT TIME RULES's Avatar
343
Rep
531
Posts

Drives: 20 BMW M2C 17 Mazda MX-5 RF
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: "Get Busy Living, or Get busy Dying"

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M2C  [0.00]
Tons? Can you please post your data and sources for this? Otherwise - please don't spread rumors.

To date I know of two M2C cars that reported having a SCH. Considering how many S55 M2C's have been built to date - that's nothing.[/QUOTE]

Agree, I have never seen accurate data on Spun hubs on the S55.

We all latch onto it because its a $$$$$ concern.

I thought I remember a poll on the M3/M4 boards on whose cars it happened on and what options/tune it had as well.

I still don't remember seeing that many % wise of total built...

I'm going to wait until I track my M2c hard next year. If it doesn't spin it under those conditions I doubt it will with a tune.

IMHO...
__________________
2005-2006 BMWCCA Boston Chapter president
2004 Mazda Rev It Up Finalist
2002-Present HPDE Instructor
Appreciate 1
M2PDX877.50

      10-12-2019, 11:19 AM   #13
BroDoze
Captain
76
Rep
685
Posts

Drives: Stuff
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

My dealer has had 3.
Stock M2C (downshift overrev)
Stock M4
Modded M3
Many more stock vehicles my tech is aware of from friends, other dealers.
Iím not spreading false numbers. What numbers do you have?
Pontificating about more power is just as bad if not worse.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:05 PM   #14
hlm2c
Second Lieutenant
United_States
137
Rep
217
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Korea

iTrader: (0)

Mr. "Tons of SCH on M2Cs", thats only 1 M2C. And in that case, if you over-rev, that's user error. You're lucky the crankhub even spun and did its job and protected your transmission and/or engine so they didn't blow up as a result. You fail to provide actual data, only rumours. To this date, like others have mentioned, there have only been two reported cases amongst the hundreds/thousands of M2Cs produced. That is less than 1%. Please come back when you have actual proof, thanks.
Appreciate 1
      10-12-2019, 01:12 PM   #15
BroDoze
Captain
76
Rep
685
Posts

Drives: Stuff
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Yet you provide nothing. Zip. Nada.
Feel free to provide something of value here.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:30 PM   #16
F87source
Major
F87source's Avatar
Canada
482
Rep
1,165
Posts

Drives: 2017 Bmw M2 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDoze View Post
Show me any sort of proof more power causes more crank spun hubs.
Tons of completely stock M2Cs have had the issue. Any shock to the drivetrain can cause it. An over-rev on a down shift has caused it on a stock M2C.
Think about it - what would more power have anything to do with it.
I think a small percentage of S55s will just be more likely to have the problem. This could be due to some manufacturing tolerance or assembly difference or very slight material difference in the parts.
I think the perfect combination of one of these susceptible S55s and driving style/incidents with cause the problem.
A very smart tech said to me if your car is in that 1% thatís going to spin itís hub, it doesnít matter if youíre stock or modded or DCT or 6MT, itís gonna happen at some point.
Here's the master thread and survey poll for the s55.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24053449
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1226184

What do you mean tons of M2C's have the issue, where your evidence?

Why would an over rev even be relevant that's a driver mistake, normally that would result in bent valves anyways.


Power would allow the engine to rev up faster putting more shock on the crank hub as it overcomes intertia from revving up. There have been threads saying it's not power related and more of the kick down from a dct causing the issue. There have been threads saying that it's neither and it's due to the dual hpfps driven off the cam causing more strain on the crank hub. There have been threads saying that the issue only started when they went higher horsepower. I guess the intention of my first post was to compare if the issue was caused by power since the drive train is identical on the M2C and m3, m4.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram @f87source
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:34 PM   #17
F87source
Major
F87source's Avatar
Canada
482
Rep
1,165
Posts

Drives: 2017 Bmw M2 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDoze View Post
My dealer has had 3.
Stock M2C (downshift overrev)
Stock M4
Modded M3
Many more stock vehicles my tech is aware of from friends, other dealers.
I’m not spreading false numbers. What numbers do you have?
Pontificating about more power is just as bad if not worse.
Your data is from a pool that is too small. Your evidence of an m2C failure was also from a driver error, so this data only leads to confirmation bias.

Edit- I guess so do all claims if there isn't any supporting evidence from a large pool. I'll get all the threads that I talked about so you guys can also have a look.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram @f87source

Last edited by F87source; 10-12-2019 at 01:46 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:35 PM   #18
F87source
Major
F87source's Avatar
Canada
482
Rep
1,165
Posts

Drives: 2017 Bmw M2 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mm2 View Post
While I agree with you, there have been cases of stock SCH on M2C.

As far as the oil cooler is concerned I feel it's potentially a bigger risk.

None of this compares to the psychological trauma caused by prolonged exposure to seeing the udder. I believe a class action suit is warranted here, I mean really, WTF??
I guess if you drive on really bad roads with alot of debris or deep speed bumps the oil cooler is a risk.

Loool the exhaust isn't even that bad.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram @f87source
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:46 PM   #19
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
I guess if you drive on really bad roads with alot of debris or deep speed bumps the oil cooler is a risk.

Loool the exhaust isn't even that bad.
As we are both from Canada we know there's extra debris everywhere as winter ends.

As my wife has an LCI I'm biased as her rear looks great...

Last edited by 1mm2; 10-12-2019 at 01:53 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:49 PM   #20
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDoze View Post
Tons of completely stock M2Cs have had the issue.
Source?

Quote:
A very smart tech said to me if your car is in that 1% thatís going to spin itís hub, it doesnít matter if youíre stock or modded or DCT or 6MT, itís gonna happen at some point.
My tech guy said the same thing, if yours has a predisposition it will happen.
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:51 PM   #21
F87source
Major
F87source's Avatar
Canada
482
Rep
1,165
Posts

Drives: 2017 Bmw M2 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mm2 View Post
As we are both from Canada we know there extra debris everywhere as winter ends.

As my wife has an LCI I'm biased as her rear looks great...
Loool not just extra debris, there are canyons in the ground. You should get a metal underbody guard to help protect it.

It's also winter and road work season, no spring, summer or fall.


Hahaha I guess it is nice not to see the huge muffler.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram @f87source
Appreciate 0
      10-12-2019, 01:51 PM   #22
1mm2
Lieutenant
393
Rep
534
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern exposure

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDoze View Post
My dealer has had 3.
Stock M2C (downshift overrev)
Stock M4
Modded M3
Many more stock vehicles my tech is aware of from friends, other dealers.
Iím not spreading false numbers. What numbers do you have?
Pontificating about more power is just as bad if not worse.
Odd, my dealer has had none yet two oils cooler punctures (M4s).
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST