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      10-12-2019, 04:48 PM   #1
baege
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The B58 feels stronger than the S55 at low RPM or is it just me?

recently test drove an m2C
liked the dct and the overall m feel of the car
seriously considering the upgrade from my m240i

but one thing holding me back is a sense after back to back drives that the b58 actually pulled stronger and felt torqiuer than the s55 at lower rpms (like less than 3000 rpm) with less turbo lag

am I just experiencing ownership bias or have others felt the same?
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      10-12-2019, 08:45 PM   #2
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Twin-scroll single turbo vs twin turbos, and feel vs actual affect on the car (to an extent...butt dynos are our most common and least accurate instruments). If you want to really see the difference in numbers, look at all the Supra tests and the M2C tests. The Supra gets a great start, but starting right at about 60 MPH, it can't keep up. To a great degree, you have to decide what's important for you performance-wise here. The way it feels for the first moment leaving a stop light, or the way it feels overall, across the whole rev range. I certainly see both sides of it.

Also, after 13 months in this car, I can very, very honestly say that the engine is only a part of the difference between F-series M Performance cars and F-series M Cars.
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      10-12-2019, 08:54 PM   #3
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I think youíre most likely feeling a difference in throttle mapping.
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      10-15-2019, 03:42 PM   #4
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probably improvements in head design and vanos in the b58 compared to the s55. keep in mind the s55 is based on the n55 which came out in 2009 versus the b58 that came out in 2015.


you'll probably see a bigger difference when you compare the s55 to the s58

BMW is always improving their engine design.
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      10-15-2019, 04:05 PM   #5
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The S58 is probably going to be a considerable improvement over the S55. It propels the 4300 lb X3 M to 0-60 mph in 4 seconds and 1/4 mile times of 12.4 seconds which are numbers that put it in the same ballpark as the M2C.
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      10-22-2019, 04:38 AM   #6
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See the videos drag racing the Supra vs M2 Comp. B58 faster off the line. So yes.




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      10-22-2019, 11:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
recently test drove an m2C
liked the dct and the overall m feel of the car
seriously considering the upgrade from my m240i

but one thing holding me back is a sense after back to back drives that the b58 actually pulled stronger and felt torqiuer than the s55 at lower rpms (like less than 3000 rpm) with less turbo lag

am I just experiencing ownership bias or have others felt the same?
that sounds about right.
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      10-22-2019, 09:13 PM   #8
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The N55 always felt punchier off the line than S55, just because of how the throttle is mapped and the turbo differences. I suspect the same thing with B58; it will have the same street friendly tune. BMW has also reduced the low end torque on S55 cars after too many people put their M4s in the trees early on.
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      11-02-2019, 11:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
The S58 is probably going to be a considerable improvement over the S55. It propels the 4300 lb X3 M to 0-60 mph in 4 seconds and 1/4 mile times of 12.4 seconds which are numbers that put it in the same ballpark as the M2C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
The S58 is probably going to be a considerable improvement over the S55. It propels the 4300 lb X3 M to 0-60 mph in 4 seconds and 1/4 mile times of 12.4 seconds which are numbers that put it in the same ballpark as the M2C.
it's faster, much faster actually. Car and Driver or Motor Trend just did their instrument tests on a X4C. 0-60 in 3.3 & 11.7 @ 119. So in a straight line, the X4 Comp will blow the M2 Comp away.
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      11-03-2019, 11:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
it's faster, much faster actually. Car and Driver or Motor Trend just did their instrument tests on a X4C. 0-60 in 3.3 & 11.7 @ 119. So in a straight line, the X4 Comp will blow the M2 Comp away.
Not taking anything away from the S58 by any stretch (Very interested in how that engine turns out in the M3 and hopefully next M2), but just a comment that AWD and a ZF8 that'll allow you to brake-torque and build boost at launch is a seriously strong/efficient way to get the power down if measured by 0-60 and 1/4 mile time. It's why many Audis are so damn quick with little work.

4500 lbs SUVs and performance like that from the factory. Gotta love the options we have nowadays
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      11-16-2019, 06:13 AM   #11
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The N55 in the OG M2 also supposedly was stronger at low rpm's but the top end wasn't and you couldn't extract much more power. So seemed to me to be part of the turbo design. The S55 designed to keep more power up top and also had a lot more headroom as well with the trade off being some down low lag. The S58 seems to be the same as we hear about the lag from X3M owners as well as the large gap between 0-60 and 5-60.
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      11-17-2019, 05:30 PM   #12
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I drove an X3M competition. The lag isnít the engine, itís a weird transmission or throttle bug. I drove it at the M track days and drove the M4 right after. The engine felt great but itís sluggish off the line and itís because of the transmission for whatever reason. It feels like when you get DCT confused or similar to that.

Last edited by chris719; 11-17-2019 at 05:51 PM..
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      11-18-2019, 01:04 PM   #13
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Just transitioning from my 440 to M2C and yeah the initial start does feel a bit less torquey with the S55 from the B58 but there are much more variables to take into account which may all be compounding. Throttle response/mapping, ZF8 to DCT, from some dynos I looked at it seemed like the B58 had more torque until somewhere around 3k from what I remember anyway.

Still at ~300 miles so I'm being real careful to keep it under 5k and not going WOT so I can't really test it out in those regards. Already got rid of the 4 so I can't test back to back either.
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      12-09-2019, 01:56 PM   #14
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      12-20-2019, 08:43 AM   #15
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You really need the car in MDM to feel the torque in low RPM Iíve found
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      12-20-2019, 08:48 AM   #16
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OP, if your car MT or Auto. I'm assuming auto, so I will reference the Supra and its' videos. The B58 may have better low end grunt, but the major thing to take into consideration here is the 8 speed ZF vs the 7 speed DCT. That 1 extra gear means shorter overall gears, and shorter gears mean faster acceleration. The Supra shifts up through so many gears during acceleration. The super short gears combined with the twin scroll single turbo, means it will have better off the line performance.

I think the key factor here is the ZF8 vs the DCT. The S55 is a fantastic motor.
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      12-20-2019, 08:30 PM   #17
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That set of twin turbos on the S55 generates more air flow (more hp) than the twin scroll turbo on the B58 but at the expense of slower response at lower rev

Like a larger man will always run slower than a smaller man initially until at a higher speed. Usain Bolt for example can be visualise as the S55 and Justin Gatlin is the B58


Last edited by Karmic Man; 12-20-2019 at 08:40 PM..
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      12-21-2019, 12:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
That set of twin turbos on the S55 generates more air flow (more hp) than the twin scroll turbo on the B58 but at the expense of slower response at lower rev

Like a larger man will always run slower than a smaller man initially until at a higher speed. Usain Bolt for example can be visualise as the S55 and Justin Gatlin is the B58

I've only had mine for a few weeks but in low rpm there is considerably more lag in the S55 than the N55 I drove the week before, definitely more than the N63tu and more than the N54 I had before.
I haven't adjusted to it quite yet, better put some more miles on it.
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      12-21-2019, 09:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomsapple View Post
I've only had mine for a few weeks but in low rpm there is considerably more lag in the S55 than the N55 I drove the week before, definitely more than the N63tu and more than the N54 I had before.
I haven't adjusted to it quite yet, better put some more miles on it.
I don't think it's lag, I think it's torque management / limiting. Similar effect, though.
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      12-22-2019, 08:47 AM   #20
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I feel the lag in my M2 Competition as well. Will this be fixed for M2 CS?
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      12-22-2019, 04:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
I feel the lag in my M2 Competition as well. Will this be fixed for M2 CS?
I don't believe it will. It'll have more power but as stated before it is a mapping "issue".

Having the twins spool early and hit hard early on is disaster for most people.

Add the short wheelbase and you'll be dealing with a snap oversteer, over correcting and end up in a hedge...or wrapped around a tree/pole.
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      12-22-2019, 07:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
That set of twin turbos on the S55 generates more air flow (more hp) than the twin scroll turbo on the B58 but at the expense of slower response at lower rev

Like a larger man will always run slower than a smaller man initially until at a higher speed. Usain Bolt for example can be visualise as the S55 and Justin Gatlin is the B58

yes justin gatlin got caught for doping... i.e. a tuned B58
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