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      05-04-2019, 08:14 PM   #1
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My M2C Audio Upgrade

The BMW M2 does not disappoint. I was expecting an all-around performance sports coupe with pretty awful audio. It delivered on all those points. I found the stock audio system to be a bit harsh, with no soundstage, limited and distorted bass and midbass, limited dynamic range. I've always done some kind of audio upgrade in my cars, and the M2 was no exception. I like working on BMW's because the battery is in the trunk, making wire management easier and cleaner. So, let's get to it.

The victim:



The gear:
-Helix P-SIX DSP Mk2
-PHD Audiophile Studio 4.1C Kit: AF1.c Tweeter, 4.1 Studio Midrange & Studio Crossover
-Jehnert XE200 Midbass
-Dynaudio Esotec MW182 Woofer, used as Subwoofers
-SoundSkins Pro sound deadening
-Technic HK Harness and ASD Bypass Harness



Front stage consists of the PHD components in stock locations. The tweeter requires some slight modifications to the sail panel to fit, but nothing drastic. They fit quite nicely.





The midrange drops right in with the supplied adapter, no modifications required. No depth or clearance issues. This time around, I decided to replace the OEM vapor shield with SoundSkins. If you're not familiar with this product, it's very similar to Focal BAM, except it's waterproof. It's a Foil, Rubber Butyl, and Foam all in one. It saves quite a bit of time on installation.



In the past, I've run this type of combo active, but this time, I decided to use the dedicated passive crossover. I don't have pics, but I put it in the far front lower corner of the door card. The shape of the cupholders made a nice little cavity that accommodated the X-Over (which are on the larger side).

Midbass duties were handled by the venerable Jehnert XE200. I don't think there's been a better overall SQ solution for this location since the E9X series began having an underseat driver. They drop right in with the supplied adapter. It does require a slightly thicker adapter than in the past.



I cut a piece of the carpet that was hanging over the woofer. It probably did nothing, but made me feel better



Subwoofer duties were handled by the Dyn MW182's in an IB configuration, mounted to the rear deck. I've found BMW trunks to be pretty well sealed, and wanted to work WITH the system instead of against it. This wasn't easy, and required some minor modifications, but it's well worth the time and effort. I'm not willing to sacrifice any trunk space, and the Dyns are so light and hit pretty hard, that I never really considered a fiberglass box. Plus I need light weight, because racecar



All processing and amplifying was done by the Helix P-SIX. The OEM amp and ASD module:



There was just enough room to fit the P-SIX in the OEM amp location. I made a custom amp rack, and affixed it to the OEM amp rack via industrial strength velcro. With gravity on my side, I don't think this thing will be moving around much.



The ASD module remained bolted in the factory location. I ended up using industrial strength velcro to attach part of the ASD bypass harness to the module itself. While the P-SIX is absolutely tiny for what it does, it's a lot larger than the OEM amp. I was happy it fit.

The center channel and rear speakers were disconnected, of course.

As far as the components go, I'd say they have a great synergy. They play nicely with the P-SIX. Audiotec-Fischer make some awesome products (PP82, 7-UP, V-Eight, etc), and the P-SIX is difficult to top IMO in terms of clean, quality power, processing power, size, and OEM integration. I love that this one amp/DSP can handle my whole system. In the past, I've had 2-3 Class A/B amps that are twice the size of the P-SIX and a separate DSP to run my whole system. I love the simplicity and size of the P-SIX.

Also, I didn't measure, but as far as I can tell, the Soundskins reduce a good bit of road noise over OEM. A lower noise floor is always a good thing

One other thing I'd like to add is how much quality and attention to detail BMW incorporates in their cars. Everything is secured down, routed, padded, etc. To the point of being a PITA to make the aftermarket stuff run like OEM. I really don't understand why they didn't take one extra step at times to eliminate rattles. However, I took the opportunity to address future rattles sources while I had the car apart. Mainly, putting Tessa tape in a lot of places where hard plastic touched metal or other hard plastic.

So how does it sound?? Talk radio sounds so good, and those 128 kbit MP3's sound amazing Seriously though, it's a night/day difference to the stock system. A whole other level. The tonality is very accurate. The soundstage is as high as the rearview mirror, fully fleshed out from pillar to pillar, and extends out to about 1/3 of the hood. There is a certain level of realism that approaches very good home audio systems. Tons of detail, and transparent without any harshness. In this system, the Dynaudio's hit plenty hard and deep enough for my liking. They can shake the rear view mirror. I already had an idea of the tune needed, and have one area of a slight midbass hump I need to EQ if I can. I've just been enjoying the music too much to dust off the mic and RTA.

And last but not least, a HUGE shout out to Don Amann of Unexpected Creations 6spdcoupe for putting up with me, giving such wise advice, and supplying me with awesome gear to fit my needs. A true gem in the audio industry. If you ever have any audio cravings, contact him.
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      05-04-2019, 10:00 PM   #2
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Nicely done!
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      04-06-2020, 08:07 AM   #3
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@RocketBoots... Pls Need to upgrade same in my F80 M3... Can you kindly get in touch with me via DM... will really appreciate!
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      04-06-2020, 12:37 PM   #4
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I am trying to get an Audison DMI and an Audison F8.9 Amplifier.. What harness is required to hook this up in place of my OEM HK amplifier.....Any advise would be appreciated...
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      04-19-2020, 10:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faisalbhutta View Post
I am trying to get an Audison DMI and an Audison F8.9 Amplifier.. What harness is required to hook this up in place of my OEM HK amplifier.....Any advise would be appreciated...
Sorry for the delayed response. Coronavirus. For the F80, the HK system runs off a digital MOST circuit, so you will need a converter, like a MoBridge or Helix SDMI25, in order to connect an aftermarket DSP and amp. You then need an adapter harness if you want to use the existing OEM speaker wires. TechnicPNP makes very nice ones. Otherwise, you could run your own set of speaker wires, although that is not advised, as it's a lot of work for no good reason. Hope that helps!
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      04-21-2020, 02:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faisalbhutta View Post
I am trying to get an Audison DMI and an Audison F8.9 Amplifier.. What harness is required to hook this up in place of my OEM HK amplifier.....Any advise would be appreciated...
Sorry for the delayed response. Coronavirus. For the F80, the HK system runs off a digital MOST circuit, so you will need a converter, like a MoBridge or Helix SDMI25, in order to connect an aftermarket DSP and amp. You then need an adapter harness if you want to use the existing OEM speaker wires. TechnicPNP makes very nice ones. Otherwise, you could run your own set of speaker wires, although that is not advised, as it's a lot of work for no good reason. Hope that helps!
Thanks a lot...
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      05-06-2020, 08:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faisalbhutta View Post
I am trying to get an Audison DMI and an Audison F8.9 Amplifier.. What harness is required to hook this up in place of my OEM HK amplifier.....Any advise would be appreciated...
Sorry for the delayed response. Coronavirus. For the F80, the HK system runs off a digital MOST circuit, so you will need a converter, like a MoBridge or Helix SDMI25, in order to connect an aftermarket DSP and amp. You then need an adapter harness if you want to use the existing OEM speaker wires. TechnicPNP makes very nice ones. Otherwise, you could run your own set of speaker wires, although that is not advised, as it's a lot of work for no good reason. Hope that helps!
Hi... Sent you a PM... kindly revert. Thanks.
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      09-23-2021, 07:54 PM   #8
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what are you using to get your new upgraded amp to with with the car...
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      09-23-2021, 11:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DetailersDomain View Post
what are you using to get your new upgraded amp to with with the car...
Hey Phil, not sure I completely understand your question; maybe some autocorrect?

But here goes: To interface with the car, I used a Technic harness. This car is a 'low end' BMW and doesn't use the MOST bus (which is great!), so it's an analogue signal. The harness goes between the OEM plug that goes into the OEM amp and the upgraded amp. It gives you RCA outputs, which go into my upgraded DSP/Amp, and speaker wire 'inputs', which go from the Helix to the harness so you can use the OEM wiring. Let me know if that answers your question.
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      09-27-2021, 11:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
Hey Phil, not sure I completely understand your question; maybe some autocorrect?

But here goes: To interface with the car, I used a Technic harness. This car is a 'low end' BMW and doesn't use the MOST bus (which is great!), so it's an analogue signal. The harness goes between the OEM plug that goes into the OEM amp and the upgraded amp. It gives you RCA outputs, which go into my upgraded DSP/Amp, and speaker wire 'inputs', which go from the Helix to the harness so you can use the OEM wiring. Let me know if that answers your question.
Do you know if the OEM system is doing any kind of speaker correction / DSP in either the head unit or amp? I kind of want to try replacing the stock drivers before the amp, but if there is some built-in crazy EQ then maybe it's not worth it.
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      09-28-2021, 09:11 AM   #11
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what are you using to get your new upgraded amp to with with the car...
Phil, there's a plethora of options here some even being plug and play. I can certainly help ya with this and I'm still local.
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      09-28-2021, 09:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Do you know if the OEM system is doing any kind of speaker correction / DSP in either the head unit or amp? I kind of want to try replacing the stock drivers before the amp, but if there is some built-in crazy EQ then maybe it's not worth it.
The amplifier is the weakest link, you're better off changing that first.
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      09-28-2021, 09:33 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe View Post
The amplifier is the weakest link, you're better off changing that first.
As someone who has designed (not just built) amplifiers, this is rarely the case. Which is why I asked where the HK DSP is located .
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      09-28-2021, 09:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
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As someone who has designed (not just built) amplifiers, this is rarely the case. Which is why I asked where the HK DSP is located .
Change the speakers and leave the amp and let us know your feedback. Then revert back and change only the amp and let us know your feedback.
(I already know the results quite well.)

Have you designed OEM, assembly line amplifiers for mass production and for pennies on the dollar?

The HK DSP is internal of the HK amp. Signal from the deck is flat, wide open and a clean 5V.
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      09-28-2021, 12:48 PM   #15
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Have you designed OEM, assembly line amplifiers for mass production and for pennies on the dollar?
Well, I appreciate the info and feedback since you tried it both ways, but I know that subjective sighted A/B tests are extremely prone to cognitive bias.

MP, yes, but not pennies. I have designed Class A, AB, D, and multiple topologies within. I also have experience with DC-DC converters, analog, high speed digital and mixed signal design at levels that put most audio requirements to shame. I have spent a lot of time testing audio equipment with top of the line and industry standard APx555, Rohde & Schwarz UPV, etc. Unlike most people, I've done ABX testing at various levels of THD and IMD from vanishing to near clipping.

The amplifier is rarely the big problem if it's not clipping, unless there is DSP in there. Which is why I asked. Obviously changing the speakers only when the DSP is tailored for that setup is going to give wrong results.
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      09-28-2021, 02:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Well, I appreciate the info and feedback since you tried it both ways, but I know that subjective sighted A/B tests are extremely prone to cognitive bias.

MP, yes, but not pennies. I have designed Class A, AB, D, and multiple topologies within. I also have experience with DC-DC converters, analog, high speed digital and mixed signal design at levels that put most audio requirements to shame. I have spent a lot of time testing audio equipment with top of the line and industry standard APx555, Rohde & Schwarz UPV, etc. Unlike most people, I've done ABX testing at various levels of THD and IMD from vanishing to near clipping.

The amplifier is rarely the big problem if it's not clipping, unless there is DSP in there. Which is why I asked. Obviously changing the speakers only when the DSP is tailored for that setup is going to give wrong results.
Understood and even agree, to an extent. In the broader market, especially when involving home I would 100% be in agreement. In vehicles, a bit different situation though, unfortunately. This definitely applies to BMW but a vast majority of other 'premium' systems from the factory as well.

Bearing in mind they are made for one purpose only and that is for a specific vehicle and not a specific person or persons. It's also played 'safe' to avoid the 'crankers' and such which is why it's a bit underwhelming in overall performance and primarily available output.

I am, in no way, suggesting that the OE HK speakers are great or even good really just that they can give a bit more, if allowed and fed.

Putting this into any sort of engineering terms will confuse 98% of the readers and they would just as soon simply skip over it so the simplified statement makes it a bit easier to understand and accept.
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      09-28-2021, 05:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe View Post
Understood and even agree, to an extent. In the broader market, especially when involving home I would 100% be in agreement. In vehicles, a bit different situation though, unfortunately. This definitely applies to BMW but a vast majority of other 'premium' systems from the factory as well.

Bearing in mind they are made for one purpose only and that is for a specific vehicle and not a specific person or persons. It's also played 'safe' to avoid the 'crankers' and such which is why it's a bit underwhelming in overall performance and primarily available output.

I am, in no way, suggesting that the OE HK speakers are great or even good really just that they can give a bit more, if allowed and fed.

Putting this into any sort of engineering terms will confuse 98% of the readers and they would just as soon simply skip over it so the simplified statement makes it a bit easier to understand and accept.
Do you recommend the MATCH UP7 BMW? I guess I'd be looking for something easy to install and use with my calibration mic and REW or similar software. I have written DSP code so I'm not that afraid of tinkering with their software or manually loading filter coefficients if needed.
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      09-28-2021, 10:12 PM   #18
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Do you recommend the MATCH UP7 BMW? I guess I'd be looking for something easy to install and use with my calibration mic and REW or similar software. I have written DSP code so I'm not that afraid of tinkering with their software or manually loading filter coefficients if needed.
For the simplicity, ease of use and installation as well as, especially, software.. yes, absolutely. You can also upload REW files right into it. I sell/install a good amount of these with absolutely no complaints whatsoever.
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      09-28-2021, 10:49 PM   #19
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For the simplicity, ease of use and installation as well as, especially, software.. yes, absolutely. You can also upload REW files right into it. I sell/install a good amount of these with absolutely no complaints whatsoever.
Can you PM me or post your info when you get a chance? I'm probably not too far from you, so if I go ahead with it I'll let you know .
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      09-28-2021, 11:30 PM   #20
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Can you PM me or post your info when you get a chance? I'm probably not too far from you, so if I go ahead with it I'll let you know .
Sure, not a problem- www.unexpectedcreations.com I'm in Edison.
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      09-29-2021, 09:21 AM   #21
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I totally forgot that Unexpected Creations and Detailer's Domain are both in NJ. I'd totally just go to Don!

chris719 What Don said A little while back, I was having a conversation with someone else on the forum (forgot the name) who's an audio engineer of some sort, and we definitely agreed the amp was the weak link. He changed out the amp and was pretty satisfied with the improvement. In any case, 6spdcoupe is pretty much the authority, and I'd go with his recommendation (which you have already done)
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      09-29-2021, 09:25 AM   #22
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I totally forgot that Unexpected Creations and Detailer's Domain are both in NJ. I'd totally just go to Don!

chris719 What Don said A little while back, I was having a conversation with someone else on the forum (forgot the name) who's an audio engineer of some sort, and we definitely agreed the amp was the weak link. He changed out the amp and was pretty satisfied with the improvement. In any case, 6spdcoupe is pretty much the authority, and I'd go with his recommendation (which you have already done)
Idunno about authority but I love this post lots !
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