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      08-02-2019, 03:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by M2MGM View Post
Hey Zach what pads did you run on the rear...to go with the 3.12s ? I guess you have the oe blue calipers on back ? Happy with the pairing, or would you go with a different compound in the rear next time ?
Yup, stock blue (now black!) rear calipers. I have Uno’s and DS1.11’s for the rear. I ran the Uno’s last time out and they worked well. Am curious if I’ll like the F/R bias more or less with the 11’s in the rear. Not sure yet.
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      08-02-2019, 03:31 PM   #68
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just throwing it out there...in terms of coolant temps..have you thought about getting larger faster aftermarket radiator fans and hook it up to a separate switch and just keep the fans on during the track seccesion.
A good thought, altho, my understanding is that fans are meant to help at low speeds.

The car does run the fan on low or high speed as needed during the session, and also after a track session even if the car is turned off.
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      08-04-2019, 08:41 AM   #69
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Have you tried something like Royal Purple X Ice or Redline water Wetter? I was about to go to that option on my Mustang, but than Germany happened.

A lot of the forced induction Muscle Car crows use distilled water with 2 bottles of water wetter for track season and the drain the radiators and fill with regular antifreeze for the winter.
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      08-04-2019, 08:58 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Have you tried something like Royal Purple X Ice or Redline water Wetter? I was about to go to that option on my Mustang, but than Germany happened.

A lot of the forced induction Muscle Car crows use distilled water with 2 bottles of water wetter for track season and the drain the radiators and fill with regular antifreeze for the winter.
I was thinking about doing this. Iíll add it to my list for my next outing to see how much difference it makes.
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      08-06-2019, 12:42 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Hey guys, thought I'd update the thread with this year's open track battle observations.

Max temps:
Ambient - 95F
IAT - 155F
Oil - 270F
Coolant - 256F

IATs were 10F lower than last year but matched ambient being 10F lower, as well. Oil/coolant max temps were similar to last year.

So, no real change in max temps if I kept pushing the car for an extended period, but I'm putting out a decent bit more power as evidenced by:

-I only made power mods to the car since last yr (already had suspension and AP BBK)
-Me being able to keep up on the straights with my Uncle's supercharged E93 (567whp) if I had a good run off the corner
-Top speed was 124mph this yr, vs 118mph last year
-Lap times were 3sec quicker than last year, even tho we were running RE-71R's this yr, vs R7s last yr
-M Laptimer comparison showing consistent time gain under power on the straights, and a little extra time gain under braking (using new Ferodo DS3.12 pads, which are great!)

Hardware changes since last year, include:

-Motul 300V vs BMW 0W-30 (I noticed 10F reduction in oil temps when doing BM3 test runs/logs)
-Dinan IC changed to Wagner Evo2 Comp IC (definitely sheds heat much quicker during BM3 logging)
-Replaced stock downpipe with HJS 300-cell DP (nice additional power bump & sound)
-do88 remote radiator (already had CSF main radiator and DCT & oil coolers last year)
-BM3 Stg 2H E30 tune & fuel vs Dinantronics Stage 4 with 96 octane (93/100 octane mix). Halim has been a huge help over the last few months in creating a Stg 2H E30 tune based on my logs, and the E30 keeps much more consistent power levels than pure gas as IATs get into 125-150F territory, see the MAF and timing values in the links below.

While max temps ended up being the same as last year, the hardware changes helped temps to increase more slowly, and the E30 helped me maintain consistent power levels as temps got high.

To add another interesting data point, below is a 100 octane session on the Stg 2 Race Gas map and one of my Stg 2H E30 sessions with E30 fuel. Boost actual vs target, MAF, and timing values remained higher with E30 vs 100 octane and the Race Gas map, even tho ambient was 10F higher during the E30 log!

Stg 2H E30:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d3a12dac090c65ddbf48125

Racegas map with 100 octane:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d39e50bc090c65ddbf480c0

Next step is likely WMI, as that will provide IAT cooling and give a little additional fueling, and maybe have an impact on how quickly engine temps increase.
Think you are still going to add the WMI? I'm still trying to resist ethanol out of convenience. Trying out the AEM kit in a couple of weeks at my local track - then back to COTA the next week so I will have some data to compare against my old logs. If it looks promising - but still not where I want it - thinking about going to direct injection with injectors sized to run a higher percentage of water. These IATs are kicking our butt man.

So on the IC swap - it sounds like the main benefit you are seeing from the new one is how fast the temps come down - not so much in controlling that peak temp? So on the track are you seeing bigger drops in IAT in places that are not where you hit peak IAT?

Where do you typically shift at? How is your power past 6k?
Not that it would probably help much - but do you have any venting or done anything more than stock to help the heat escape the engine bay?
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      08-06-2019, 01:22 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Think you are still going to add the WMI? I'm still trying to resist ethanol out of convenience. Trying out the AEM kit in a couple of weeks at my local track - then back to COTA the next week so I will have some data to compare against my old logs. If it looks promising - but still not where I want it - thinking about going to direct injection with injectors sized to run a higher percentage of water. These IATs are kicking our butt man.

So on the IC swap - it sounds like the main benefit you are seeing from the new one is how fast the temps come down - not so much in controlling that peak temp? So on the track are you seeing bigger drops in IAT in places that are not where you hit peak IAT?

Where do you typically shift at? How is your power past 6k?
Not that it would probably help much - but do you have any venting or done anything more than stock to help the heat escape the engine bay?
Below are my current thoughts on WMI from a different thread. It’s a coin flip, but E85 is more convenient for me (lots of stations out here) than WMI, so I’ll probably stick to E30 and doing the B58 HPFP mod to hopefully run even higher E mixes and tunes.

WMI-
There’s definitely benefit to WMI, I’d just be going thru a ton of it on track. I’d likely need >10-gal of mix for an open track day.

E30 at the track yields similar power output as WMI, and it combusts cooler than gas and power levels remain high even as IATs go to 150F. But, I’ll likely need to do the B58 fuel pump upgrade if I want to run E30 in cooler temps.

It seems both paths get you to similar performance, and they each have pros/cons when it comes to initial setup and ongoing maintenance. WMI likely makes more sense for the ACN gas guys, as they need all the octane help they can get, and the E mix quickly gets too high for the M2’s HPFP when adding enough E85 to make up for ACN gas.

I’m mostly curious about how WMI + E30 performs. From my E30 logs, the WMI would only get me another 5-hp by reducing IATs further, and I could prob squeeze another 10-15hp with a WMI + E30 tune but then I need the tune failsafes in place, and that’s more complexity than I personally want to deal with.

On the flip side, running WMI & E30 on just the E30 tune may provide enough additional fueling to not need to upgrade the HPFP when running E30 in cooler weather. And, it may have other cooling benefits to help keep the engine cooler a little longer at the track. Unfortunately, there’s no way to confirm any of this without actually doing it.

IC-
Regarding the IC, you’re correct. IATs are routinely lower around town and temps drop more between corners on track. But, when you push the car to the max on track, any IC is going to get really hot.

RPMs-
I take the car to redline until it starts to get hot. 6500 or so after that. I don’t think short-shifting from the get go will prevent the inevitable.

Venting-
I have none. I’m not willing to compromise the aesthetics of the car to get more cooling. The only airflow mods I’ve done are Porsche air ducts on the control arms and cutting part of the rotor protection plates off, but that’s for brake cooling.
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      08-06-2019, 01:52 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Below are my current thoughts on WMI from a different thread. Itís a coin flip, but E85 is more convenient for me (lots of stations out here) than WMI, so Iíll probably stick to E30 and doing the B58 HPFP mod to hopefully run even higher E mixes and tunes.

WMI-
Thereís definitely benefit to WMI, Iíd just be going thru a ton of it on track. Iíd likely need >10-gal of mix for an open track day.

E30 at the track yields similar power output as WMI, and it combusts cooler than gas and power levels remain high even as IATs go to 150F. But, Iíll likely need to do the B58 fuel pump upgrade if I want to run E30 in cooler temps.

It seems both paths get you to similar performance, and they each have pros/cons when it comes to initial setup and ongoing maintenance. WMI likely makes more sense for the ACN gas guys, as they need all the octane help they can get, and the E mix quickly gets too high for the M2ís HPFP when adding enough E85 to make up for ACN gas.

Iím mostly curious about how WMI + E30 performs. From my E30 logs, the WMI would only get me another 5-hp by reducing IATs further, and I could prob squeeze another 10-15hp with a WMI + E30 tune but then I need the tune failsafes in place, and thatís more complexity than I personally want to deal with.

On the flip side, running WMI & E30 on just the E30 tune may provide enough additional fueling to not need to upgrade the HPFP when running E30 in cooler weather. And, it may have other cooling benefits to help keep the engine cooler a little longer at the track. Unfortunately, thereís no way to confirm any of this without actually doing it.

IC-
Regarding the IC, youíre correct. IATs are routinely lower around town and temps drop more between corners on track. But, when you push the car to the max on track, any IC is going to get really hot.

RPMs-
I take the car to redline until it starts to get hot. 6500 or so after that. I donít think short-shifting from the get go will prevent the inevitable.

Venting-
I have none. Iím not willing to compromise the aesthetics of the car to get more cooling. The only airflow mods Iíve done are Porsche air ducts on the control arms and cutting part of the rotor protection plates off, but thatís for brake cooling.
Going to be interesting to see how the E30 & WMI works for you. If you do end up having to upgrade the HPFP do you think you will be able to go all the way to E85?

Just seeing the temps drop quicker is still definitely nice. Hopefully giving you a bit more power until they get back up there. We are converting over to an S55 IC setup & should be ready to go before my next COTA trip. Not sure how much that is going to help (if any) - will run a log of it without WMI to see what it does. Maybe A2W is part of the solution, maybe not - haven't seen anyone push that conversion on the track yet.

How does your car pull approaching redline? Still pretty strong until the temps get too high? Didn't think so on the venting, just seeing what your setup is. I have a gts style hood incoming - hoping it buys me at least half a degree of cooling
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      08-06-2019, 02:03 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Going to be interesting to see how the E30 & WMI works for you. If you do end up having to upgrade the HPFP do you think you will be able to go all the way to E85?

Just seeing the temps drop quicker is still definitely nice. Hopefully giving you a bit more power until they get back up there. We are converting over to an S55 IC setup & should be ready to go before my next COTA trip. Not sure how much that is going to help (if any) - will run a log of it without WMI to see what it does. Maybe A2W is part of the solution, maybe not - haven't seen anyone push that conversion on the track yet.

How does your car pull approaching redline? Still pretty strong until the temps get too high? Didn't think so on the venting, just seeing what your setup is. I have a gts style hood incoming - hoping it buys me at least half a degree of cooling
The B48/58 pump doesn't provide enough flow for full E85. You'd have to go XDi for that. And, my understanding is a bigger turbo than my Dinan would be needed to exploit anything above E40.

Power still drops to redline, but it's better with the Dinan turbo vs the stock turbo. As for IAT impact to power, it really is pretty amazing how strong the power remains with E30 vs gas. Even in my 100 octane logs, you can see the E30 does a better job at keeping power levels up as IATs go 125-150F.

Definitely interested in seeing how the A2W and GTS hood helps! We're all searching for solutions!
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      08-06-2019, 11:11 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
The B48/58 pump doesn't provide enough flow for full E85. You'd have to go XDi for that. And, my understanding is a bigger turbo than my Dinan would be needed to exploit anything above E40.

Power still drops to redline, but it's better with the Dinan turbo vs the stock turbo. As for IAT impact to power, it really is pretty amazing how strong the power remains with E30 vs gas. Even in my 100 octane logs, you can see the E30 does a better job at keeping power levels up as IATs go 125-150F.

Definitely interested in seeing how the A2W and GTS hood helps! We're all searching for solutions!
Yeah even with 100 you have no power once the IATs are up there. Like you gotta work hard just to try to break sticky tires loose level of no power. Interesting that with e30 you still have some power at those temps. Buddy in his gt350 just whomped all over me down the long back straight at cota - it was pretty comical. Still was lapping at least 6 secs faster than him but it was hilarious how much more power he had. GT350s shouldnít do that to this car.

What have you done to run the E30? Is it just a matter of the tune? Thinking I maybe ought not be so lazy and just mix up some for track days. Itís not close but I know where to find some. So when you are running E30 do you just run the tank low and then fill up with 93 and swap tunes to go back?
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      08-07-2019, 09:12 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Yeah even with 100 you have no power once the IATs are up there. Like you gotta work hard just to try to break sticky tires loose level of no power. Interesting that with e30 you still have some power at those temps. Buddy in his gt350 just whomped all over me down the long back straight at cota - it was pretty comical. Still was lapping at least 6 secs faster than him but it was hilarious how much more power he had. GT350s shouldn’t do that to this car.

What have you done to run the E30? Is it just a matter of the tune? Thinking I maybe ought not be so lazy and just mix up some for track days. It’s not close but I know where to find some. So when you are running E30 do you just run the tank low and then fill up with 93 and swap tunes to go back?
I ran with a GT350 back when my car was relatively stock, and the same thing happened to me--passed on the straight, catch and pass in the corners. They do sound great when they pass you, tho!

You need BM3's Stg 2 E30 tune to take advantage of the E30. I have a Stage 2H E30 tune (higher boost) from Halim to take advantage of my Dinan turbo. Halim mentioned he has some updates coming to the M2 OTS maps soon, so they're always improving the maps.

You can also mount your phone to the windshield, and get a BM3 OBD/Wifi agent from eBay so you can watch and set alarms for IATs, coolant and oil temps, knock, and other variables. It also makes it easy to start/stop logging while at the track. I also run M Laptimer while doing this.

As for the E30, the first thing I use is this to find stations: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethano...arest?fuel=E85
They have phone apps, as well.

Second thing I use to manage my mixes is this: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/calculate85/id1246394696
There's a few navigation bugs, but it makes calc'ing, adjusting, and tracking the E mix in your tank much easier.

I run an Ethanol mix all the time. You can get away with E30 when IATs are consistently above 105F--that's generally just at the track.

I've had to drop to E27 for around town when I'm just cruising and IATs are lower. The car will want to push more fuel with lower IAT and the E30 will crash the HPFP.

When I did my trip to SC/GA for an open track day, I used both apps to plan my stops to find ethanol and manage my mix. That ended up being pretty impt b/c evening temps dropped into the 60s, and I had to drop my E mix to E23. The Stage 2H E30 map did fine in my case even with that low of an E mix, but this is why I want to try the B48/58 HPFP mod.
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      08-09-2019, 11:46 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
I ran with a GT350 back when my car was relatively stock, and the same thing happened to me--passed on the straight, catch and pass in the corners. They do sound great when they pass you, tho!

You need BM3's Stg 2 E30 tune to take advantage of the E30. I have a Stage 2H E30 tune (higher boost) from Halim to take advantage of my Dinan turbo. Halim mentioned he has some updates coming to the M2 OTS maps soon, so they're always improving the maps.

You can also mount your phone to the windshield, and get a BM3 OBD/Wifi agent from eBay so you can watch and set alarms for IATs, coolant and oil temps, knock, and other variables. It also makes it easy to start/stop logging while at the track. I also run M Laptimer while doing this.

As for the E30, the first thing I use is this to find stations: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethano...arest?fuel=E85
They have phone apps, as well.

Second thing I use to manage my mixes is this: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/calculate85/id1246394696
There's a few navigation bugs, but it makes calc'ing, adjusting, and tracking the E mix in your tank much easier.

I run an Ethanol mix all the time. You can get away with E30 when IATs are consistently above 105F--that's generally just at the track.

I've had to drop to E27 for around town when I'm just cruising and IATs are lower. The car will want to push more fuel with lower IAT and the E30 will crash the HPFP.

When I did my trip to SC/GA for an open track day, I used both apps to plan my stops to find ethanol and manage my mix. That ended up being pretty impt b/c evening temps dropped into the 60s, and I had to drop my E mix to E23. The Stage 2H E30 map did fine in my case even with that low of an E mix, but this is why I want to try the B48/58 HPFP mod.
Yeah even with the stg 2 race gas tune, downpipe, all that good stuff the GT350 just still walked out of my life. My E92 M3 at close to stock power and full weight pulls pretty even with them. Would think the M2 at this level would do the same when can keep it at full power. Both run away from them in the corners like you said. Strangely I have found the GT350 to be the most under driven common track car in this area though - it's very strange.

I apparently had a moment of weakness the other night. Sounds like I have an xdi hpfp & pure stg 2 turbo inbound. Still going forward with the WMI & IC swap as well. Hopefully this keeps everything happy. PI would be the next step with a bigger tank. Also got the PR coils coming as well. Going to see how much ethanol I can go with on this combo at the track. Hopefully can find a consistent happy place that doesn't take too much fiddling with. Not sure if it will all make it on the car by the end of the month though for COTA.

Going to take a look at the wifi device. Took the laptop for a spin last time
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      08-09-2019, 12:04 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Yeah even with the stg 2 race gas tune, downpipe, all that good stuff the GT350 just still walked out of my life. My E92 M3 at close to stock power and full weight pulls pretty even with them. Would think the M2 at this level would do the same when can keep it at full power. Both run away from them in the corners like you said. Strangely I have found the GT350 to be the most under driven common track car in this area though - it's very strange.

I apparently had a moment of weakness the other night. Sounds like I have an xdi hpfp & pure stg 2 turbo inbound. Still going forward with the WMI & IC swap as well. Hopefully this keeps everything happy. PI would be the next step with a bigger tank. Also got the PR coils coming as well. Going to see how much ethanol I can go with on this combo at the track. Hopefully can find a consistent happy place that doesn't take too much fiddling with. Not sure if it will all make it on the car by the end of the month though for COTA.

Going to take a look at the wifi device. Took the laptop for a spin last time
Very nice, should be a blast!

Since youíre already committed to a bigger HPFP & PS2, my recommendation would be to hold off on the WMI until you get the car dyno tuned on an E30-45 mix and get some logs at the track. Itíll take some dialing in with that combo and itíll be good to have a base dataset to work with before you throw another variable in the mix.

Then, you can add the WMI to see the impact on that setup. And then also try WMI with a 93 octane dyno tune to see if thatís more convenient than ethanol. And lastly, a dyno tune with both E40+ and WMI.

Lots of experimenting in your future, but should be fun. Iím curious to hear how much more lag the PS2 gives you around town in rush hour traffic, and the final combo that you go with for the track bc I may need to go that route to stay on top at my annual track battle.
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      08-09-2019, 12:30 PM   #79
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Going to take a look at the wifi device. Took the laptop for a spin last time
Stay tuned for a thread about this coming from me at some point today...
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      08-09-2019, 05:39 PM   #80
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Very nice, should be a blast!

Since youíre already committed to a bigger HPFP & PS2, my recommendation would be to hold off on the WMI until you get the car dyno tuned on an E30-45 mix and get some logs at the track. Itíll take some dialing in with that combo and itíll be good to have a base dataset to work with before you throw another variable in the mix.

Then, you can add the WMI to see the impact on that setup. And then also try WMI with a 93 octane dyno tune to see if thatís more convenient than ethanol. And lastly, a dyno tune with both E40+ and WMI.

Lots of experimenting in your future, but should be fun. Iím curious to hear how much more lag the PS2 gives you around town in rush hour traffic, and the final combo that you go with for the track bc I may need to go that route to stay on top at my annual track battle.
Yeah definitely think there will be quite a bit of experimenting to figure out what all works best. Going to be interesting to see how much power it makes in the heat. Ought to be pretty rowdy when it gets cooler too. You still seeing ok power running ethanol with the higher temps is what prompted me on the hpfp. Kind of a waste of money for a track day if you can't get close to full power. And then it wouldn't make sense to not take advantage of the higher flow and the leave the turbo stock. So basically by my calculations this saves me money. Not sure if my wife believes me.

Turbo lag - ugh - hopefully its not too bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Stay tuned for a thread about this coming from me at some point today...
Well hello there, lets see what you got!
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      08-10-2019, 01:36 AM   #81
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Will be keeping an eye on the PS2 and fuel pump upgrades you guys do along with results.


Recent posts of what the M2c puts down in stock form with 91 octane has me questioning things now.
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      08-10-2019, 11:31 AM   #82
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Recent posts of what the M2c puts down in stock form with 91 octane has me questioning things now.
What do you mean? I haven't seen the posts.
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      08-10-2019, 12:19 PM   #83
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You guys are taking this thread a different direction.

Altho, for my $0.02, I wouldn’t switch to an M2C. The looks, sound, and interior of the M2 is much more pleasing (and classic, IMO). Plus, I’d have to do all the same mods to suspension and braking to make an M2C on par with my M2.

Sure, you can tune the S55 to put down great numbers on the dyno and street, but the S55 runs into heat issues on track, as well—if you’re really pushing it.

I’m still waiting to see someone with a lot of track experience post up some times in the M2C that shows it’s measurably quicker and can last 45min on track with the added power. Even if it were, I’d still keep my ride.

Case & point for me: for those of you that watched the on track BMW Safety Car display at the beginning of the rain delayed Czech MotoGP race, the best exhaust note by far was the OG M2 Safety Car.

Lastly, the N55 is more fun around town. A quick dab of the throttle gets you a ton of torque and wheelspin. With the S55, you have to wind it up (it does pull great above >6k, tho).

Last edited by ZM2; 08-10-2019 at 02:31 PM..
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      08-10-2019, 02:36 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
You guys are taking this thread a different direction.

Altho, for my $0.02, I wouldnít switch to an M2C. The looks, sound, and interior of the M2 is much more pleasing (and classic, IMO). Plus, Iíd have to do all the same mods to suspension and braking to make an M2C on par with my M2.

Sure, you can tune the S55 to put down great numbers on the dyno and street, but the S55 runs into heat issues on track, as wellóif youíre really pushing it.

Iím still waiting to see someone with a lot of track experience post up some times in the M2C that shows itís measurably quicker and can last 45min on track with the added power. Even if it were, Iíd still keep my ride.

Case & point for me: for those of you that watched the on track BMW Safety Car display at the beginning of the rain delayed Czech MotoGP race, the best exhaust note by far was the OG M2 Safety Car.

I love my car as well....and I'm certainly not trying to turn this into a sibling rivalry as these normally do.

I am legitimately excited for the results and would love to see the process posted here.

But I know I'm not the only one who's sat down and looked at the cost of certain upgrade paths vs trading in. We all know these cars are very finicky and we see first hand what it takes/costs to get major upgraded performance out of them. Case in point, some of the struggles in various threads either regarding heat/octane or both.

Perhaps it would be best to start with something that's a bit more track worthy 'out the box' and build from there.

.....I guess this is just the internal debate/struggle I've been having with myself as of late lol.

Again, not bashing fellas, just a legitimate concern/thought I wanted to share.
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      08-10-2019, 02:41 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
What do you mean? I haven't seen the posts.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1638635


Post #5, although every dyno should be observed with a grain of salt.
Still.....its just so easy...even with just a piggyback.
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      08-10-2019, 03:00 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerardzM View Post
I love my car as well....and I'm certainly not trying to turn this into a sibling rivalry as these normally do.

I am legitimately excited for the results and would love to see the process posted here.

But I know I'm not the only one who's sat down and looked at the cost of certain upgrade paths vs trading in. We all know these cars are very finicky and we see first hand what it takes/costs to get major upgraded performance out of them. Case in point, some of the struggles in various threads either regarding heat/octane or both.

Perhaps it would be best to start with something that's a bit more track worthy 'out the box' and build from there.

.....I guess this is just the internal debate/struggle I've been having with myself as of late lol.

Again, not bashing fellas, just a legitimate concern/thought I wanted to share.
Labor of love.

Plus, most of the guys putting their cars on track donít max out either car. So, forum POVs are pretty subjective.
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      08-11-2019, 09:30 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Have you tried something like Royal Purple X Ice or Redline water Wetter? I was about to go to that option on my Mustang, but than Germany happened.

A lot of the forced induction Muscle Car crows use distilled water with 2 bottles of water wetter for track season and the drain the radiators and fill with regular antifreeze for the winter.
Any idea of the operating pressure for our coolant system and what psi the cap is rated for?

If I ran pure water with some water wetter, the system pressure needs to be >25psi (265F boiling point) to give some headroom to not let water vapor bubbles form and create any hot spots.

Otherwise, still need some antifreeze mix to keep the boiling point >265F at operating pressure.
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      08-12-2019, 09:09 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerardzM View Post
I love my car as well....and I'm certainly not trying to turn this into a sibling rivalry as these normally do.

I am legitimately excited for the results and would love to see the process posted here.

But I know I'm not the only one who's sat down and looked at the cost of certain upgrade paths vs trading in. We all know these cars are very finicky and we see first hand what it takes/costs to get major upgraded performance out of them. Case in point, some of the struggles in various threads either regarding heat/octane or both.

Perhaps it would be best to start with something that's a bit more track worthy 'out the box' and build from there.

.....I guess this is just the internal debate/struggle I've been having with myself as of late lol.

Again, not bashing fellas, just a legitimate concern/thought I wanted to share.
I think that is definitely a worthy debate. To me it all depends on what your end goals with the car are - and on how hard you expect to be running it. Do you see yourself ever upgrading the brakes or suspension? If not that is a + for the M2C (still need to swap pads & fluid though). If plan to upgrade them then it's a washout.

Now the cooling. Again really depends on what you plan to do. I've personally never found a stock cooling system to be sufficient with how I drive on the track. It's a small sample size (E92 M3, OG F87 LCI, '18 GT-R, & '19 ZR-1) but I can't run flat out for a full session in any without temp issues of some sort - especially when it starts getting warm down here. So for me that is somewhat a washout - except that I agree my total cost due to N55 will likely be more than if S55.

Power - to get similar power levels yeah agree you are likely going to have to drop more into a N55. And then there is definitely a ceiling to the N55 if you were wanting to go big power. Power delivery, all that good stuff, up to debate.

So I'm fairly new to the F87 platform - here's how I got to an OG '18 vs the comp. Even though I consider this to be a light duty track car I am going to push hard when I'm out there and I don't find much enjoyment in not being able to utilize the car fully for a complete session. This car will only ever see HPDE's on the track so I will do what is necessary to be able to run 30 min hard multiple times a day. What that means for me is that I knew I would be replacing every cooler in either car. I also knew that I would be going to BBK's both front & rear no matter which car. The Essex AP Racing BBK on my E92 M3 have ruined me for stock brakes. With one of my primary tracks being COTA (hard on brakes) and running sticky tires this was a definite for either the OG or comp. Suspension I figured I was likely to upgrade but wasn't 100% prior to purchase.

With all this in mind now down to N55 vs S55. The top end of my desired power level is within reach of either motor - albeit easier to achieve in a S55. Anything more and I would not feel comfortable without addressing safety at a higher level - which to me is a big step and compromises the road worthiness of the car. Safety in this regards being cage, fixed back seat, 6pt harness, etc. Money wise the cost for power at this level washes out in the price difference between the two.

So now money wise for me they are about equal so that is dropped from the debate. Looks - I think they both look really good. Interior - I'm completely fine with the OG trim level. I honestly didn't pay much attention here (didn't even notice the seats were changed on the comp...). So I was good with either here - if I wanted more luxury I'd look at a F90. If I had paid more attention to the comp interior then the seats would have been a big negative. Being able to use the Schroth QFP with the OG seats is a big advantage in my opinion. I can also admit that sound played a big part in my decision. This is a car driven purely for my enjoyment - street, track, wherever - it's all about fun. The sound is a big part of this to me for a street / light track car. The N55, especially with DP & MPE has got it. The S55 not so much... A competition car would be a different discussion. But for a car with the sole purpose of maximizing my enjoyment - the OG M2 is the choice over the comp for me. Throw in the CAE shifter along with everything else I've done to it and it is just a freaking blast to drive.

So to me it all comes down to what your plans with the car are - and what you expect to get out of it. I think the M2C gives you more bang for your buck out of the gate - but a lot of that will be negated if you plan to take your car further than stock. And like ZM2 said how you drive it makes a big difference. This is not meant to come across as any type of bragging in any way - but I can put down a pretty decent pace. I was able to run down many cars that day that should imo be quicker - GT3's, GT4's that were being driven pretty decently - with the car not being close to giving me full power. What I'm getting at is that the OG is still a very quick car - even in this situation being down on power. And pushing that much is definitely going to result in a lot of heat.

When we are able to consistently get full power (and we will get to that point) then this thing is going to be a rocket.
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