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      11-15-2019, 05:29 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I meant 40mm of preload ie compressing the spring by 40mm from its resting position.

I did pick this value from the one being discussed as it seems like an easy mistake to make and to wrongly set the preload to 40mm. I was asking if doing so would lead to your bolded statement above and whether this might be the culprit for the poor ride and suggested this should be checked.

What seems to be missing from Ohlins instructions is what the rear preload should be.

If the car compresses the springs by 16mm due to its weight then as I understand it you only have 16mm of extension if the preload is set to 0. Further increasing the preload would lead to an extension of the shock for the same applied weight which reduces the available extension travel.

This would seem to lead to traction problems over bumps and potholes as the suspension can only decompress so little and compressing requires overcoming the "excess" preload.

To summarise it would seem that the spring rate might be too high (not enough compression due to the weight) or the preload is to high, which leads to not enough extension (rebound? not sure on the term if it is from rest out) travel.

Or? and thanks for your reply
I would imagine it'd be pretty difficult/nearly impossible to set 40mm of preload. If you set the height adjuster to have 40mm of pre load before installing it and the spring it'd be impossible to jack up the lower camber arm to align it into the subframe or knuckle (depending on which side you disconnect to take the OE spring out) since the car would raise before those points aligned. If you tried to set 40mm of preload after the spring was already installed using your typical cheap and narrow coilover wrenches you'd have to put a crazy amount of rotational force in there to get the perch to spin.

16mm of spring movement is like 27mm at the wheel.
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      11-15-2019, 07:20 PM   #24
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Just enough preload to keep the sprig in place with an unloaded suspension is all you really need.

We haven't run into these issues you are having at our shop. Our last customer running 90 and 190 rates at 20+ clicks actually thinks it's still on the soft side. Large bumps didn't upset the car or sent its passengers off of their seats.
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      11-15-2019, 08:35 PM   #25
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Something isn't right. I have the M2 Ohlin set up as you do, and at 15 clicks, the ride borders on plush. I've had my ride height set and professionally corner balanced.
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      11-15-2019, 09:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
Just enough preload to keep the sprig in place with an unloaded suspension is all you really need.

We haven't run into these issues you are having at our shop. Our last customer running 90 and 190 rates at 20+ clicks actually thinks it's still on the soft side. Large bumps didn't upset the car or sent its passengers off of their seats.
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Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
Something isn't right. I have the M2 Ohlin set up as you do, and at 15 clicks, the ride borders on plush. I've had my ride height set and professionally corner balanced.
I would say there is an installation issue with mine but after the tech couldn't setup the rear properly, I told him to put everything back to what it says in the manual. In fact, he couldn't even break the adjuster on the rear shock loose. So all he did was to set the spring perch 40mm from the vehicle body, which is what the manual says. I watched him do it in front of me and I also double checked the spring perch measurement myself as well. Unless he somehow messed up the shock height (even though he told me he couldn't break it loose), I don't think there is an installation error that I can see. I highly doubt it but maybe I got a defective unit. Btw, mine is corner balanced as well.

Also, just to clarify, it doesn't push me out of my seat in every bump or dip. For the most part, it's just stiff with 18clicks in the rear. However, when there is a bit serious bump or a dip, the rear is literally super jumpy. I can even feel the difference between my front and rear going over speed bumps at very low speeds. The front just beautifully handles it even at speed but for the rear I almost have to come a complete stop otherwise it just skips over the bumps as if there is no suspension in the rear.

Here's another example... After my last track day, I changed my rear to 16clicks (normally run 18-20clicks for the street) just to see the difference. Didn't even say a word to my wife about this change, after a 2-minute ride in the car, her first reaction was "What did you do to your car? It's super bumpy". Just for reference, she never said a single word about the ride quality on my M4 which had MS lowering springs paired with its adaptive suspension (it was a bad choice).

Anyways... Looks like I need to make an appointment and get it checked by someone who is more experienced.
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      03-23-2020, 09:09 PM   #27
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Did you manage to find what was wrong with your setup?Just curious as I'm installing mine right now.
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      07-20-2020, 09:00 PM   #28
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Bumping this thread - I am having the same problem. Had a reputable shop put the suspension in and even with 12 clicks all around the suspension is super bouncy all around. My wife gets thrown out of her seat on freeway joints and it is becoming a pain. On track the car is a dream. I have experimented with full soft / full stiff / in between to no avail. I even used softer springs than what Ohlins provided hoping there would be no harsh / bouncy ride.

I am thinking the preload is not correct but wanted to see if anyone else had gotten a resolution to this problem.

Thanks!
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      07-21-2020, 01:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moveswiftly View Post
Bumping this thread - I am having the same problem. Had a reputable shop put the suspension in and even with 12 clicks all around the suspension is super bouncy all around. My wife gets thrown out of her seat on freeway joints and it is becoming a pain. On track the car is a dream. I have experimented with full soft / full stiff / in between to no avail. I even used softer springs than what Ohlins provided hoping there would be no harsh / bouncy ride.

I am thinking the preload is not correct but wanted to see if anyone else had gotten a resolution to this problem.

Thanks!
This issue has been making me crazy too. I also think it maybe springs too stiff so I am going to see how much I might be able to lessen it in the morning. I have dampers set to 18 and high speed stability and cornering are bad over mild bumps. ABS kicks in early too.
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      07-21-2020, 08:09 AM   #30
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The problem is Ohlins have the dampers valves way too stiff in the rear. They probably did not revalve them from the first F80 kit that came with 230nm springs.

Unless you run on really smooth roads or are very tolerent to stiff riding cars there are good chances you won't like the ride. It's shame because for the price these are probably the best dampers out there, the way you can hit the curbs at the track is unreal.

I just got my rears revalved by 3dm Motorsports and I'm running 70nm front/140nm rear springs and the ride is still not as smooth as I would like to. You have to consider we have some of the worst roads around here, on track it's perfect tough.

Next step is replacing my front spherical bearing camber plates with a poly ''street'' model to reduce the harshness on cracks/joints etc.


One important thing is your tires, I can confirm they will make almost a bigger difference than even a revalve, I ran Cup2, R888R and dws06 with this kit and the difference between the 3 tires is immense.
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      07-21-2020, 10:09 AM   #31
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A lot of our customers are okay with 90/190 for both street and track duty.

Everyone is different though.
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      07-21-2020, 01:37 PM   #32
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Well, it turns out the rear springs are the recommended 230nm for M3/4 and not the 190nm for M2 which we all seem to find too stiff anyway. I reduced preload a couple millimeters from max and will road test. I doubt it will make any difference so will likely be selling this and moving to M Performance unless replacement springs are reasonable. Can't seem to find them online... Any ideas what an acceptable spring rate would be? Also need to verify Vorshlag plates will work with M Perf.
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      07-21-2020, 02:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
Well, it turns out the rear springs are the recommended 230nm for M3/4 and not the 190nm for M2 which we all seem to find too stiff anyway. I reduced preload a couple millimeters from max and will road test. I doubt it will make any difference so will likely be selling this and moving to M Performance unless replacement springs are reasonable. Can't seem to find them online... Any ideas what an acceptable spring rate would be? Also need to verify Vorshlag plates will work with M Perf.
Well that explains things, I remember reading posts from the F80/82 guys complaining all over the place about the 230nm springs afterwards they were all ordering 'M2' 190nm springs and seemed much happier.

Like HP Auto said, we can't tell you if swapping to 190nm springs will be ok with you since it's such a personal and subjective thing. It can only ride better that's for sure. Part number is 48010-67 any dealer can probably order them or ask Ohlins usa directly

Your Vorshlag plates will not work since the M perf suspension uses OEM style springs. The only plate Ive seen that seem to work with both OEM and 60mm springs is the Millway street. I plan on replacing my Vorshlag with these during off season to remove some nvh/harshness.
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      07-21-2020, 03:06 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
Well, it turns out the rear springs are the recommended 230nm for M3/4 and not the 190nm for M2 which we all seem to find too stiff anyway. I reduced preload a couple millimeters from max and will road test. I doubt it will make any difference so will likely be selling this and moving to M Performance unless replacement springs are reasonable. Can't seem to find them online... Any ideas what an acceptable spring rate would be? Also need to verify Vorshlag plates will work with M Perf.
For customers after ride quality only we use 80/160 or 140. It doesn't need to be Ohlins. Swift spring is another good option. PM if you have any specific questions regarding springs(can't post prices here).
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      07-21-2020, 04:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
A lot of our customers are okay with 90/190 for both street and track duty.

Everyone is different though.
I think this would have been better than the 230 I have in the rear now. 230 is way too much spring. If my math is correct, that is 1,311 lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
For customers after ride quality only we use 80/160 or 140. It doesn't need to be Ohlins. Swift spring is another good option. PM if you have any specific questions regarding springs(can't post prices here).
Thank you. Since I am local to TC Kline, I am taking it there Friday for spring replacement. IIRC he is doing 600LB rear and 300LB front. so 105NM rear and 53NM front which is what he runs on his M2C. Swears it will do better on track sprung that way.

I totally understand how the higher rates would make it great on track when that track is smooth. However, when on roads, the rear has very little give.

I'll report back after picking it up and driving a bit.

What I don't understand is that the M3/M4 is not that much different in weight from M2C, so why the substantial difference in rates? Also, Ohlins recommendations for springs is the same for M2's from 2016-2020. 2019 and 2020 have same rear suspension but not from and some added engine weight.

Suspension setup is some kind of black magic apparently.
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      07-21-2020, 05:47 PM   #36
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It's funny because I am running the 80/160 spring setup already (rather than the 90/180 spring setup).... I run RE71R or Cup2 on the track. Love the suspension on the track but on the street it is just jarring.
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      07-21-2020, 06:49 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by moveswiftly View Post
It's funny because I am running the 80/160 spring setup already (rather than the 90/180 spring setup).... I run RE71R or Cup2 on the track. Love the suspension on the track but on the street it is just jarring.
Exactly my experience (I was running 90/190). As an update to the thread that I started, I sold my car back in February but if I were to buy another F8X in the future, I will definitely stay away from Ohlins regardless of how amazing they are on the track. I'm still open to try their products on other brand/model of the cars but I learned my lesson on the F8x platform.
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      07-21-2020, 09:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Pilot View Post
Exactly my experience (I was running 90/190). As an update to the thread that I started, I sold my car back in February but if I were to buy another F8X in the future, I will definitely stay away from Ohlins regardless of how amazing they are on the track. I'm still open to try their products on other brand/model of the cars but I learned my lesson on the F8x platform.
With their Advance Trackday TTX coilovers in the horizon, we may see future R&T lean more street than track with softer spring rates.

If you were ever on the E8x E9x forums, 80-90% people complain that the R&T rates were way too soft and upgraded to higher rate springs right away. Hard to make everyone happy.
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      07-21-2020, 09:21 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
I think this would have been better than the 230 I have in the rear now. 230 is way too much spring. If my math is correct, that is 1,311 lbs.



Thank you. Since I am local to TC Kline, I am taking it there Friday for spring replacement. IIRC he is doing 600LB rear and 300LB front. so 105NM rear and 53NM front which is what he runs on his M2C. Swears it will do better on track sprung that way.

I totally understand how the higher rates would make it great on track when that track is smooth. However, when on roads, the rear has very little give.

I'll report back after picking it up and driving a bit.

What I don't understand is that the M3/M4 is not that much different in weight from M2C, so why the substantial difference in rates? Also, Ohlins recommendations for springs is the same for M2's from 2016-2020. 2019 and 2020 have same rear suspension but not from and some added engine weight.

Suspension setup is some kind of black magic apparently.
Make sure TC has 65mm ID springs. TC is in that other school of suspension tuning, softer springs equal more mechanical grip and more forgiving in the wet.

With that drastic difference in rates, you should consider revalving the dampers.
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      07-21-2020, 09:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
Make sure TC has 65mm ID springs. TC is in that other school of suspension tuning, softer springs equal more mechanical grip and more forgiving in the wet.

With that drastic difference in rates, you should consider revalving the dampers.
Thanks for that advice. He did mention his preference for the Koni's he sells but also said these shocks are well done and technologies have caught up a lot between the big companies. Said Koni still has a proprietary oil that seems to have an edge?

I only track once or twice a year. I am not especially good at it nor will I likely be going that infrequently. For me, especially during this COVID $hit, I just want to really enjoy each drive, hit the on/off ramps, and have better general control. Of course the occasional back road ride too.
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      07-22-2020, 02:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
Thanks for that advice. He did mention his preference for the Koni's he sells but also said these shocks are well done and technologies have caught up a lot between the big companies. Said Koni still has a proprietary oil that seems to have an edge?

I only track once or twice a year. I am not especially good at it nor will I likely be going that infrequently. For me, especially during this COVID $hit, I just want to really enjoy each drive, hit the on/off ramps, and have better general control. Of course the occasional back road ride too.
I know the damper oil is really good in the Koni and they typically require less service than others. Koni also has a lifetime warranty.
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      07-24-2020, 05:16 PM   #42
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Also posted this on the other Ohlins problem thread:

As an update, I picked my car up from TC Kline today. My only regret is that I didn't just buy his suspension setup from the beginning. He installed 400lb/in (70NM/mm) front and 700lb/in (123NM/MM) rear. Fronts are 7" (about 178mm) and rear are 10" (254mm). All 2.5" ID. They are customer made for TC Kline by Hyper Coils (www.hyperco.com). Original plan was 600LB rear and 300 front, but the ID wouldn't work on the Ohlins for the front. This set up is pretty close to his M4GTS. He resprung that lower than OEM.

Interestingly, he did not have to reset ride height. This tells me the new springs are holding the car up and at least not too soft to cause it to sit lower.

I have only driven about 20 miles since but it is significantly better. Straight-line stability is as good as OEM or better and overall ride is a bit more firm but not uncomfortably so. No more constant steering corrections due to rough pavement or bumps and rear is a bit more planted.

Really nice guy and it is really valuable that when I call, he almost always answers. Especially since he is local to me.

For reference, the Ohlins springs I had were 230NM/mm rear (1,311LB/in) and 200mm and front was 90NM/mm (513LB/in). This was the rear spring recommended for M3/4 vs 190 for M2. Not sure why this was on an M2 Kit...
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      07-24-2020, 07:21 PM   #43
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I ran the original springs (90/190) for over a year and felt it was perfect for the street... not exactly compliant but never felt unsettled either. I upgraded to a stiffer setup and it feels perfect on the track, and still drivable on the street but quite a bit firmer than before. All subjective and everyone has different tolerance levels.
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      07-24-2020, 07:59 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
With their Advance Trackday TTX coilovers in the horizon, we may see future R&T lean more street than track with softer spring rates.

If you were ever on the E8x E9x forums, 80-90% people complain that the R&T rates were way too soft and upgraded to higher rate springs right away. Hard to make everyone happy.
Do you know if M Perf coilovers are softer than R&T? Is there another kit that is?
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