[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Franzino

I would still rather have the silver 2NH calipers...but ordering those in parts will indeed be more expensive then the red kit.

my understanding is that the Big Silvers ONLY come on a car (M2 Competition)

Big Reds will be what you receive if ordering at the parts counter... so if you love silver... and want to retrofit silver.. that's not gonna happen unless you buy Big Reds and swap with someone.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by chris719

It depends what Hawk pad. I tried HPS 5.0 and they had poor initial bite for me but YMMV. I know the HP+ and dedicated track pads are much more aggressive.

HPS is still a full street pad... that's a pretend performance pad.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/compounds

it's so low on the totem pole it doesn't even make the motorsport page.. which begins with the HP +

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Yea, that's what I'm thinking too. They should sell pretty easily. I will upgrade to Essex AP Racing BBK which is already 20lbs lighter than smaller blue brakes (total weight savings both front and rear) and fit 18" wheels.

if you are gonna go aftermarket.. go all in. BMW is simply trying to steal some of the aftermarket parts business back from full on aftermarket vendors.

Personally.. I would go your route.. I would pay more for uprated Calipers that would still fit under 18" wheels in order to avoid the higher prices of aftermarket 19" wheels as well as the running costs of 19" tires.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by diss7

I haven't read the entire 10 pages, but did read the the first few.

I don't agree with the comments saying that the larger brakes will only last "a few more corners" or "half a lap more".

The key point is the disc difference. From 380x30 to 400x36. That extra 6mm in the disc width is likely in the internal vane of the disc, meaning it will (in my opinion) make a significant difference to heat dissipation. This is what is key to extended track use.

maybe but bigger discs aren't the only way to deal with heat...so some are kind of miffed that was the "first" (or "final" if u will) solution since it comes at a price (weight)...

[M+M]

Originally Posted by norMcal

I appreciate your input. Maybe I forgot to mention, but I have had the PFC's on my car for 3 or 4 events now. I did notice right away that they weren't as aggressive, but my first day with them was on a track I wasn't familiar with, so I could not judge it completely. Then the second time (at Laguna Seca) I thought the braking zones had no grip, and attributed the sensation to that, but now that I have had a few days, and on 2 tracks that I am familiar with, I think the material has transferred on to the rotors and that should not be an excuse any longer.

You raise a good point/concern, maybe it would not be ideal to swap pads back and forth. Although I think a day of street driving usually removes the impeded material on the rotor and I drive a couple hundred miles to get to Laguna Seca, so I would think the rotors would be preped by the time I get there. Just swapping back mid day would not be a good strategy.



Well said, and pretty much how I feel.

I don't want to sound like a broken record and keep bringing up my e46 M3, but since this M2 was supposes to be the replacement for it, I tend to compare all aspects against it. If i was in the market for a new street car that I would occasionally take to a HPDE, then the M2 is a fabulous car, I'm sure.
But for guys like me, that want it as a second car, and want it to be a track toy, it does appear like it missed the mark a bit. Getting heavier than the regular M2 was definitely not what I was looking for, and I do care a lot about un-sprung weight. However, I also know from a guy that tracks his M2 a lot, that the stock brakes are at best, at the very limit of being able to take the abuse.
I am all for going with the smallest/lightest brakes one can get away with. And I have never been someone who is aggressive on brakes. I am more of a momentum driver. But, with the added pork and power of this car, I have a feeling the bigger brakes are necessary.

I agree with this sentiment re weight. So much that this is my normal track ride....

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by M+M

I agree with this sentiment re weight. So much that this is my normal track ride....

COOL!

[Alf89]

Originally Posted by M+M

I agree with this sentiment re weight. So much that this is my normal track ride....

nice helmet. i have the same one (in a quantum s).

[M+M]

Originally Posted by Alf89

nice helmet. i have the same one (in a quantum s).

Yes, its an oldie now but I find it still the best for open car where aero effect/turbulence is a factor. I have a new stilo full face in carbon but the shell is bigger and the turbulence is much greater.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

HPS is still a full street pad... that's a pretend performance pad.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/motorsports/compounds

it's so low on the totem pole it doesn't even make the motorsport page.. which begins with the HP +

My point was the Hawk street pads suck and have worse bite than OEM pads (in my experience), so I would not want to stick with Hawk for both compounds.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Well said, and pretty much how I feel.

I don't want to sound like a broken record and keep bringing up my e46 M3, but since this M2 was supposes to be the replacement for it, I tend to compare all aspects against it. If i was in the market for a new street car that I would occasionally take to a HPDE, then the M2 is a fabulous car, I'm sure.
But for guys like me, that want it as a second car, and want it to be a track toy, it does appear like it missed the mark a bit. Getting heavier than the regular M2 was definitely not what I was looking for, and I do care a lot about un-sprung weight. However, I also know from a guy that tracks his M2 a lot, that the stock brakes are at best, at the very limit of being able to take the abuse.
I am all for going with the smallest/lightest brakes one can get away with. And I have never been someone who is aggressive on brakes. I am more of a momentum driver. But, with the added pork and power of this car, I have a feeling the bigger brakes are necessary.

Are the blue brakes marginal on M3/M4 with appropriate fluid and pads? I wonder if the ducting is different.

It won't really matter what brakes you put on the M2 if there is poor airflow to them. Something the 370Z community is very familiar with.


For a track toy, why not consider a C7 Grand Sport? Tires may be more expensive but has huge availability of brakes and wheels. Much faster car and it's lighter.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2

maybe but bigger discs aren't the only way to deal with heat...so some are kind of miffed that was the "first" (or "final" if u will) solution since it comes at a price (weight)...

It's interesting you mentioned those words "at a price"...

Lets see what some other options are in order to get a perspective of the value for money of the BBK from BMW M.

(All prices are ball park)

Brembo
Front: USD 4,500 (380 x 34mm)
Rear: USD 3,600 (380 x 28mm)

AP
Front: USD 3,400 (370 x 36mm)
Rear: USD 3,300 (380 x 28mm)

Alcon (Rotors only)
Front: USD 2,000 (380 x 30mm)
Rear: USD 2,000 (270 x 25mm)

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

It's interesting you mentioned those words "at a price"...

Lets see what some other options are in order to get a perspective of the value for money of the BBK from BMW M.

(All prices are ball park)

Brembo
Front: USD 4,500 (380 x 34mm)
Rear: USD 3,600 (380 x 28mm)

AP
Front: USD 3,400 (370 x 36mm)
Rear: USD 3,300 (380 x 28mm)

Alcon (Rotors only)
Front: USD 2,000 (380 x 30mm)
Rear: USD 2,000 (270 x 25mm)

I would say they cost even more (at least for AP):

Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit (Front 9660/372mm) - $4550 (with pad tension kit)

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...87M2f80M3f82M4

Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit (Rear CP9449/365mm) - $4240 (with pad tension kit)

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...36530mm-M2M3M4

The whole kit costs almost $9K.

[warrenw]

Originally Posted by cntzl

I would say they cost even more (at least for AP):

Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit (Front 9660/372mm) - $4550 (with pad tension kit)

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...87M2f80M3f82M4

Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit (Rear CP9449/365mm) - $4240 (with pad tension kit)

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...36530mm-M2M3M4

The whole kit costs almost $9K.

Yeah but isn't the essex kit different from the regular AP racing kit?

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by warrenw

Yeah but isn't the essex kit different from the regular AP racing kit?

Correct. I knew Essex kit was more expensive but still didn't think there would be such big difference compared to the regular AP kit. I guess Essex AP kit is $2K+ more expensive indeed. Going back to Karmic Man 's point, maybe BMW's BBK on M2C isn't as good as these kits but it still shows the value they add to the car. Btw, does anyone have any idea how much I can sell the stock BBK that come with the M2C (the whole kit -calipers, lines, pads, and rotors)?

[warrenw]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Correct. I knew Essex kit was more expensive but still didn't think there would be such big difference compared to the regular AP kit. I guess Essex AP kit is $2K+ more expensive indeed. Going back to Karmic Man 's point, maybe BMW's BBK on M2C isn't as good as these kits but it still shows the value they add to the car. Btw, does anyone have any idea how much I can sell the stock BBK that come with the M2C (the whole kit -calipers, lines, pads, and rotors)?

I want to guess it will have to be ~15-20% lower than what you can buy it for on M Performance. So, $1,700-$1,800 ish?

(I'll be selling mine too)

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by warrenw

I want to guess it will have to be ~15-20% lower than what you can buy it for on M Performance. So, $1,700-$1,800 ish?

(I'll be selling mine too)

Wow do you think the red M Performance BBK will cost around $2K? I thought they would cost much more than that... wishful thinking maybe... MSRP on stock M3/M4 brake kit (just blue calipers and rotors) is around $5500 and with online discounts you can get them for around $3600.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Wow do you think the red M Performance BBK will cost around $2K? I thought they would cost much more than that... wishful thinking maybe... MSRP on stock M3/M4 brake kit (just blue calipers and rotors) is around $5500 and with online discounts you can get them for around $3600.

The BBK is only a AUD 3k (~USD 2.2k) option in Australia. I can’t stop myself from giggling when others mentioned that the M BBK is a rip off, there are better, lighter brake kits from AP, Brembo...without looking into the cost of those gears.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Wow do you think the red M Performance BBK will cost around $2K? I thought they would cost much more than that... wishful thinking maybe... MSRP on stock M3/M4 brake kit (just blue calipers and rotors) is around $5500 and with online discounts you can get them for around $3600.

Mperf BBK will be a lot more than $2k.

For reference G30 Mperf BBK, which are only a 4/1 piston setup...are $3370 msrp.

https://www.shopbmwusa.com/PRODUCT/5...KE-SYSTEM,-RED

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

The BBK is only a AUD 3k (~USD 2.2k) option in Australia. I can’t stop myself from giggling when others mentioned that the M BBK is a rip off, there are better, lighter brake kits from AP, Brembo...without looking into the cost of those gears.

I don't think it's a rip off considering the cost of aftermarket options as you said. However, I assume what you meant was that it costs $2.2K to upgrade from standard blue brakes when you order your car. It's almost like the cost of blue brakes plus $2.2K. In other words, if you were to buy this kit after delivery from your dealer's parts department or from an online store, I bet they will cost so much more.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Mperf BBK will be a lot more than $2k.

For reference G30 Mperf BBK, which are only a 4/1 piston setup...are $3370 msrp.

https://www.shopbmwusa.com/PRODUCT/5...KE-SYSTEM,-RED

Agreed! My guess is they will priced at $5K or more.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

You can already ready buy the exact same 6pot & 4pot calipers from BMW. They are the exact same calipers that go with the CCB KIT.

Front 6pot calipers are £820ish each
Rear 4pot calipers are £500ish each.

You have to buy the gold ones because even though the M5 has the same front 6pot (in blue) they do not come with the bracket to attach it an M2,M3 & M4.

I've already got the 6pots and 4pots. Im just waiting for the new brake discs for the M2C BBK to be released for purchase in August and I will be buying them and fitting them to my M2 LCI.

I just checked the US prices of those gold calipers. MSRP of just the gold calipers in total (both front and rear) is around $4400 but I was able to find them discounted at around $2900 online. And these are just the calipers without discs and pads.

[eeyang92]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

Yep. That is about right.

Just curious - are there steel/iron rotors that fit the CCB calipers? If so, how much do they cost?