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BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Discussions > Base M2 N55 deck layout (closed/open): BMW F87 M2 press releases 10/2015 vs. 02/2016

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      02-16-2017, 08:00 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
I really didn't see BMW saying "Buy the M2, it is ready to be modded".
I guess their collaboration with Dinan sent me mixed signals.
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      02-16-2017, 08:03 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
This thread would be so easy to troll, too bad everyone here isn't an Audi owner.
I am lol. Further, I can't seem to get an allocation, so giving up and looking for a used R8 lol.

What amuses me most about this forum is the vitrol over technical items that very few people here really understand. Makes for great entertainment. I'd have preferred it be closed deck for mod purposes but seems pretty clear to me its open deck. Not the end of the world, and like on other marques, if it shows to be a weakness, DART or somebody will make a block insert to stiffen it up.
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      02-16-2017, 08:53 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothM2 View Post
At the end of the day if someone buys an M2 because of the falsely advertised closed deck he/she has a legitimate case. A buy back should be the minimum offered to all M2 owners. Just google false advertisement lawsuits and you will find many more less worthy cases that paid out hundreds of millions.
Yep, like I said, all it does is make the attorneys rich and the price of the cars to go up.

Still, the facts stand - the performance of the car, as advertised by BMW, is not changed based on the block. So I bet everyone will have a fun time proving the value of the car is diminished and/or the car is not what BMW says it is. Not that they won't try.

and it makes me laugh - because I remember my 550 owner's manual (or maybe the 325i) had something about 14 way seat adjustments, when in fact it was like 12. I wrote to BMW and they said "yea, we made a mistake, sorry".

But I didn't sue. My bad
Whaddya mean sue? You should have requested a vehicle do-over (aka buyback!) ... well.. at least you got the apology ...
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      02-16-2017, 09:13 AM   #180
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Some say open deck engines allow much more efficient cooling and thus higher states of tuning and also that will withstand slight higher pressure deformations while a closed deck may just open micro-cracks causing catastrophic failures.

Having said that, we don't have any known M2 blocks that needed to be open so far, which seems to be a really good sign (reinforced by the fact that several people here really push the engine to ist limits on a regular basis). The S55 didn't have more problems than this n55 variant in the first couple of years?

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      02-16-2017, 01:24 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999
These lawsuit comments.... are people serious? If so, I'm really curious what "damages" they feel they are owed and...

I'm ashamed to be an American if a suit like this actually gets any merit. Just sayin, wow, to think you are owed something that has absolutely no bearing on how the car works/performs/drives/etc.... I'm at a loss. Is that really what we have come to here?

Or maybe everyone is just joking?
There are plenty of attorneys in California with a bunch of student loans who could be motivated.
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      02-16-2017, 01:25 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinnetti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
This thread would be so easy to troll, too bad everyone here isn't an Audi owner.
I am lol. Further, I can't seem to get an allocation, so giving up and looking for a used R8 lol.

What amuses me most about this forum is the vitrol over technical items that very few people here really understand. Makes for great entertainment. I'd have preferred it be closed deck for mod purposes but seems pretty clear to me its open deck. Not the end of the world, and like on other marques, if it shows to be a weakness, DART or somebody will make a block insert to stiffen it up.
+1, Some people just want to feel more special than they really are. I can't wait to read the arguments over the BMW/Toyota collaboration.
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      02-16-2017, 02:33 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLAGUY View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
I really didn't see BMW saying "Buy the M2, it is ready to be modded".
I guess their collaboration with Dinan sent me mixed signals.
Dinan indicated last summer during the factory tour that they get no help from BMW anymore.
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      02-16-2017, 03:28 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er View Post
Dinan indicated last summer during the factory tour that they get no help from BMW anymore.
BMW is still in collaboration by not voiding your warranty. They still treat Dinan differently than Pure Turbo and Burger Tuning.
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      02-18-2017, 12:48 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLAGUY View Post
BMW is still in collaboration by not voiding your warranty. They still treat Dinan differently than Pure Turbo and Burger Tuning.
My understanding was that bmw does void part of your warranty and dinan assumes the liability on associated parts.
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      02-19-2017, 10:34 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanstyle View Post
I think most everyone has already acknowledged that it's not a big deal in itself. The [M2 engine deck type] debate was due to the mystery of whether it exists because there was some evidence for both arguments, but no way to verify without tearing into an engine.
Agreed.

Next time, some marketing folks working at/for BMW should be a little more cautious when using M3/M4 materials.

S55 Technical Training (page 13) (see here):
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E82 1M manual (EURO):
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      11-20-2019, 06:49 PM   #187
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  • summary of the topic of this thread
  • two recent M2 N55 engine deck pictures confirming 'open deck'
  • in general: 'open deck' versus 'closed deck'
1) For those who missed the M2 N55 engine 'open/closed deck' rap battle.

In the past an epic-esque debate raged on this forum tackling the question whether the N55B30T0 engine powering the base M2 was 'open deck' or 'closed deck'.

I had my doubts about the accuracy of official initial BMW 'closed deck' information and explained on the forum why I believed the base M2 engine to be 'open deck'. To my eyes, there was a mismatch of information. By doing so I inevitably challenged the official initial BMW information stating 'closed deck' (threads: here, here, here and here). Some forum fellows kindly commented that I got it wrong ("rather weak conjecture" as someone coined it).

The discussion seemed to be sealed after 'closed deck' confirmation by e-mail by BMWNA (when inquired by some forum fellow in order to end the forum discussion for once and for all). This 'closed deck' confirmation didn't convince me and I persisted: 'open deck'. Some lost their temper and in some way or another blamed me for not being capable of handling the (alleged) 'closed deck' truth.

And later the final answer came through: BMWNA confirmed in the end that - as I had supposed - the M2 engine is effectively 'open deck'. All 'closed deck' references have vanished from BMW M2 press releases and the BMWNA website. And, some forum fellows of the 'flat earth society' who had been rather unkind with me without merit, went quiet.

Before - twice the mistaken 'closed deck' reference (former link, now dead: https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m2.html):


After (former link, now re-allocated: https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m2.html):


M2 Competition and M2 CS, on the other hand, feature an S55 engine = closed deck engine layout.

2) Two recent M2 N55 engine deck pictures confirming 'open deck':
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Engine pictures will silence the discussion. Someday these will pop up over here.
Someday is today - here you go: 'open deck' (source: here - Nov 2019):

Name:  N55_OpenDeck.jpg
Views: 1435
Size:  71.8 KB

Name:  N55_OpenDeck_2.jpg
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Size:  54.4 KB

3) In general: 'open deck' versus 'closed deck':



explanation:


S55 engine dismantled and repaired. Also quickly showing the difference between the N55 'open deck' design and S55 'closed deck' design. Interesting tech stuff. In German, but with English subtitles:

part 1:


part 2:
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      11-24-2019, 08:22 AM   #188
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Great explanation of terms, and glad someone got to the bottom of it!
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      11-24-2019, 10:57 AM   #189
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and... sponsored bij Rolex
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      11-25-2019, 11:25 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Pol View Post
and... sponsored bij Rolex
No sponsorship deal involved as regards me. I pay in full my own inexpensive disposable Swatch watches.
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      11-25-2019, 12:39 PM   #191
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If anyone knows for sure please correct me if wrong.

I'm beginning to think BMW had the entire F87 platform—M2, M2C and M2CS—planned prior to every releasing the M2 and the whole closed deck thing was a mistaken reference to the S55.
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      11-25-2019, 01:55 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
If anyone knows for sure please correct me if wrong.
I'm beginning to think BMW had the entire F87 platform—M2, M2C and M2CS—planned prior to every releasing the M2 and the whole closed deck thing was a mistaken reference to the S55.
Rumor has it (surfaced in January 2016) that an N55 M2 and S55 M2 were actually developed side-by-side, or at least within a small time window. The N55 M2 was supposed to be named "M2". And that happened. The S55 M2 was supposed to be called "M2 CS", due for release around 2018. And that did not happen: things took a turn in 2018 because of EU emissions homologation requirements taking force in September 2018 in Europe. Result: exit the N55 M2 and rebaptizing the S55 M2 as "M2 Competition". During the Summer of 2018: exit + enter. In VIN decoders exactly the same pre-production S55 M2 got labelled "M2 CS" and at some other point in time "M2 Competition". We may reasonably assume that the S55 M2 (temporary dubbed "M2 CS") that turned "M2 Competition", was not supposed to be sold at near-base-M2 price. But the problem was that there was no entry-level BMW M car anymore with the N55 M2 being retired. So the M2 Competition unexpectedly 'dropped' into the entry-level BMW M car position, with an attractive price. That's also why the M2 Competition will continue to be regarded as excellent value for money. Also from a price perspective, the M2 Competition stole the 450hp 2020 M2 CS thunder: if the M2 Competition would have been priced somewhere in the middle between base M2 price and base M4 price, the 2020 M2 CS price would be a little less hard to stomach.

Though this rumor has never been confirmed, M2 Competition owners may occasionally come across car parts featuring "CS" stamped on it.

picture below from forum fellow Cannondale900 + smknjoe + cb804:
Name:  F87_CS_Plate.jpg
Views: 1966
Size:  285.7 KB

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      11-25-2019, 02:35 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
No sponsorship deal involved as regards me. I pay in full my own inexpensive disposable Swatch watches.
Don't misunderstand me Artemis. I was referring to one of the technicians/engineers wearing a "Rolex SD 43 Red", a masterpiece as well.
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      11-25-2019, 11:58 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pol View Post
Don't misunderstand me Artemis. I was referring to one of the technicians/engineers wearing a "Rolex SD 43 Red", a masterpiece as well.
Lapse...
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      11-26-2019, 03:34 AM   #195
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That's pretty interesting. I wonder if that was some intentional deception or just marketing team incompetence.

Anyway, I got somewhat unrelated question. Why did they replace the N55 with S55?

I was told it was that the N55 couldn't meet the emission standards anymore and it was easier to replace it with S55 rather than modify B58.

I just noticed that the OG M2 produced 199g/km of CO2, and M2C does about 220g.

How does that help?
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