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      02-14-2017, 07:41 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Lol, whatever helps you sleep at night. Whether it's closed or open deck makes zero performance difference in this application. Fanboys get so defensive when you suggest that it doesn't make sense for BMW to spend the money to cast another unique cylinder head for an outgoing engine in a low-volume car.

The evidence so far overwhelmingly points to an error in the documentation. If you can't see that then I am afraid your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are lacking. Yeah, you're going to say that a BMW NA mouthpiece told you it had a closed deck - but the proof is in the car or CAD model - not what some guy in Woodcliff Lake says in an email. His conclusions may be based on the same incorrect information.

I want it to have a closed deck, it would be neat if it did, but I would not bet on it.
That is why for bmw's sake it needs to be a closed deck. False advertising that results in increased sales is very punishable. M2 owners would certainly win a class action. It's a win win for us.
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      02-14-2017, 08:04 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
"CLOSED-DECK ENGINE CONTROVERSY SOLVED"

LOLlolololololullullululululzzzzzzz
Hahahaha came in here to post the same thing
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      02-14-2017, 08:44 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
zenmaster, point taken, but that was then.

Given the obvious change in the "Powerful Engines" M2 section of the official BMWNA website in the meantime, would be interesting to know what is exactly stated in the internal M2 Technical Training (US) nowadays re the M2 engine deck design.
You could ask.
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      02-14-2017, 09:33 AM   #92
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Just because it is of "closed deck design" does not mean it is a "closed deck block".

WOW, lol, well played BMW marketing and legal team!
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      02-14-2017, 09:42 AM   #93
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I notice that there is a heavy bias of opinion... those with an M2 seem to be much more likely to be in the N55B30T0 is closed deck, while those without an M2 seem much more likely to be in the open deck camp.

I am of the IDGAF camp. If I do tune my M2, it won't likely be to much more than 400hp, which I am pretty confident the N55B30T0 can take whatever the deck.

Can we agree that there is nothing else to say until someone has a photo of the N55B30T0 with the top off? All the stock photos or CAD images of the "N55" don't mean much.
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      02-14-2017, 09:45 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er View Post
I notice that there is a heavy bias of opinion... those with an M2 seem to be much more likely to be in the N55B30T0 is closed deck, while those without an M2 seem much more likely to be in the open deck camp.

I am of the IDGAF camp. If I do tune my M2, it won't likely be to much more than 400hp, which I am pretty confident the N55B30T0 can take whatever the deck.

Can we agree that there is nothing else to say until someone has a photo of the N55B30T0 with the top off? All the stock photos or CAD images of the "N55" don't mean much.
And the regular N55 block is good for much more than that...so no worries at all. You could be shooting for 500 or 600 bhp and not have worries. Which is why it was so dumb for some people to hang on the closed deck thing as this big improvement. The regular block is absolutely fine for the application.
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      02-14-2017, 09:54 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
zenmaster, point taken, but that was then.
Given the obvious change in the "Powerful Engines" M2 section of the official BMWNA website in the meantime, would be interesting to know what is exactly stated in the internal M2 Technical Training (US) nowadays re the M2 engine deck design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
You could ask.
The honor is all yours - you got better skills and contacts for that.

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      02-14-2017, 10:21 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er View Post
I notice that there is a heavy bias of opinion... those with an M2 seem to be much more likely to be in the N55B30T0 is closed deck, while those without an M2 seem much more likely to be in the open deck camp.

I am of the IDGAF camp. If I do tune my M2, it won't likely be to much more than 400hp, which I am pretty confident the N55B30T0 can take whatever the deck.

Can we agree that there is nothing else to say until someone has a photo of the N55B30T0 with the top off? All the stock photos or CAD images of the "N55" don't mean much.
Whatever, mister "red herring"
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      02-14-2017, 10:25 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Lol, whatever helps you sleep at night. Whether it's closed or open deck makes zero performance difference in this application. Fanboys get so defensive when you suggest that it doesn't make sense for BMW to spend the money to cast another unique cylinder head for an outgoing engine in a low-volume car.

The evidence so far overwhelmingly points to an error in the documentation. If you can't see that then I am afraid your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are lacking. Yeah, you're going to say that a BMW NA mouthpiece told you it had a closed deck - but the proof is in the car or CAD model - not what some guy in Woodcliff Lake says in an email. His conclusions may be based on the same incorrect information.

I want it to have a closed deck, it would be neat if it did, but I would not bet on it.
That is why for bmw's sake it needs to be a closed deck. False advertising that results in increased sales is very punishable. M2 owners would certainly win a class action. It's a win win for us.
No you wouldn't lol. " false advertising ".. you would have to prove that BMW did this intentionally and that an entire class of customers actually knows what the difference is in design between open and closed deck and that they made their purchase decision and relied on wrong info in doing so. Good luck with all that

The marketing materials all said Michelin SS as well as M mirrors are an M car feature. I believe they also said twin turbo instead of "
Twin power turbo" ( which actually means single turbo ).

Why don't you try and sue over the tires or how you didn't get M mirrors first and see how that goes.
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      02-14-2017, 10:28 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy9980 View Post
So if the tech is saying the m40i is a closed deck wouldn't that also mean the B58 new engine would be closed deck too? According to this BMW tech?
The B58 does have a closed deck design. You can see that it has a closed deck design in the tech manual.
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      02-14-2017, 10:30 AM   #99
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so what's the deal. is the N55 in the M2 actually a closed deck engine? im surprised no one has opened the engine up by now.
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      02-14-2017, 10:35 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Neutral thread title: "Comparison: BMW F87 M2 press releases of October 2015 and February 2016".

I was neither involved in referring this thread on the Bimmerpost front page nor proposed the headline "BMW M2 closed-deck engine controversy solved". If I had been asked, I would have suggested: "BMW M2 engine deck type controversy: new clues ?".

As a matter of fact, we will know for sure the M2 engine deck type as soon as someone posts pictures of an opened M2 engine (N55B30T0).

The answer is out there, right under the M2 hood.

Artemis, I wasn't judging you. I just thought it was hilarious that everyone was still having the debate while the front page says it's solved. I know you didn't make the front page title.
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      02-14-2017, 11:09 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
@Artemis, I wasn't judging you. I just thought it was hilarious that everyone was still having the debate while the front page says it's solved. I know you didn't make the front page title.
That's exactly how I understood your message as soon as I read it + I agreed with the point you had made. That's also why I quoted it.
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      02-14-2017, 11:41 AM   #102
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Bimmerpost and their fake news again

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      02-14-2017, 11:58 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy9980 View Post
So if the tech is saying the m40i is a closed deck wouldn't that also mean the B58 new engine would be closed deck too? According to this BMW tech?
BMW X4 M40i ? OK, bear with me for a moment.

The S55B30T0 engine (M3/M4) and B58 engine (M140i, M240i, 340i, 440i and 740i/Li + future) both have a 'closed deck' design and feature LDS-coated aluminium cylinder liners. LDS (Lichtbogendrahtspritzen = twin wire arc spray process) permits a thinner/lighter cylinder wall (small when compared to the typical iron sleeve). The decreased thickness allows for greater thermal transfer and consistency, all while allowing extra cooling channels (part of the water jacket) between cylinder bores so the engine can be tuned "hotter" since the cooling properties are greater.

The M2 and X4 M40i engine both share the N55B30T0 engine. That engine does not sport LDS-coated aluminium cylinder liners, but features moulder cylinder liners made from cast iron. Pistons were adopted from the S55B30T0 engine (M3/M4). Adaptations were necessary on the first piston ring, the plain rectangular compression ring. This had to be adapted as regards the material pairing to a liner made of grey cast iron.

As pointed out in post #1 of this thread, back in October 2015, 'closed deck' was mentioned in several M2 marketing materials, but in the course of February 2016, the 'closed deck' reference was removed from some (but apparently not all) M2 marketing materials.

So what did/do the X4 M40i marketing materials say ? Well, same story: back in October 2015 'closed deck' was mentioned, but in the course of February 2016 removal of the 'closed deck' reference from some (but apparently not all) X4 M40i marketing materials.
  • X4 M40i US press release of October 1, 2015 (available here - full PDF document here): alike the M2 US press release of October 14, 2015 (available here - full PDF document here) reference is made to a 'closed deck' design:
    "The newly developed M Performance TwinPower Turbo inline 6 cylinder gasoline engine for the new BMW X4 M40i combines high performance with exemplary fuel economy. Accordingly, the lightweight, thermodynamically optimized aluminium engine has been constructed with a closed-deck design. In this type of construction, the water jacket surrounding the cylinders is sealed at the top, which endows the crankcase with an exceptionally high degree of stiffness."
  • X4 M40i German press release of February 17, 2016 (available here - full PDF document here): alike the updated M2 German press release of February 17, 2016 (same day) the reference to 'closed deck' design has vanished (available here - updated full PDF document here):
    "Der neue BMW X4 M40i verfügt über einen neu entwickelten M Performance TwinPower Turbo Reihen-Sechszylinder-Benzinmotor. Das leichte, thermodynamisch optimierte Aluminium-Triebwerk wurde auf maximale Drehfreude bei gleichzeitig souveränem Durchzugsvermögen ausgelegt und bietet dementsprechend eine Motorcharakteristik, die begeisternde Fahrdynamik mit beeindruckender Effizienz verbindet."
  • more X4 M40i press releases of February 17, 2016 (available here): except for the English version, no "closed deck" reference in the French, Spanish, Italian and Russian press releases.
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      02-14-2017, 12:48 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Has anyone tried REALOEM.com?
Yes, shows open deck

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=47
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      02-14-2017, 12:52 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Has anyone tried REALOEM.com?
Yes, shows open deck

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=47
Well, there you go.
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      02-14-2017, 01:31 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Has anyone tried REALOEM.com?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Well, there you go.
Hold your horses: see the post below of forum fellow blackholescion putting things into perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy9980 View Post
Found this too on the closed and open deck concern
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4446
Looks like its either semi closed or open. No closed Deck according to RealOEM.com
Looks like the S55 Is closed Deck M3/M4
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5589
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholescion View Post
To be fair, they more than likely copy/pasted the info from the M235i since the motors are similar and the part numbers are identical. At the end of the day, realoem is more about part numbers (of which there isn't one for the M2 block) than minute pictorial accuracy.

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      02-14-2017, 01:46 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingwan View Post
so what's the deal. is the N55 in the M2 actually a closed deck engine? im surprised no one has opened the engine up by now.
short answer, no. It is open deck.
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      02-14-2017, 02:14 PM   #108
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So I thought ordering a M2 head gasket might end the drama but instead it looks like it might add fuel to the fire

According to the cross reference the M2 and M4 are different parts but they sure look the same. So maybe the S55 is an open-deck

2' F87 M2 M2 Cylinder Head Attached Parts

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4450



4' F82 M4 M4 GTS Cylinder Head Attached Parts
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5591



2' F22 M240i Cylinder Head/Mounting parts
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_6448



Though in the end looks like it doesn't prove anything one way or another

Last edited by omasou; 02-14-2017 at 02:25 PM..
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      02-14-2017, 02:31 PM   #109
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      02-14-2017, 02:38 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
So I thought ordering a M2 head gasket might end the drama but instead it looks like it might add fuel to the fire

According to the cross reference the M2 and M4 are different parts but they sure look the same
They don't look the same. Check again.
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