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      03-16-2020, 11:51 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911sanantone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I've been running the stock plastic charge pipe for going in 4 years with a JB4 & Dinan Stage 1, at different times, seasons and temperatures, including a lot of 3am, "spirited" driving, in Mexico, of course - yet, never had a single issue..

I don't want to say that the OEM pipe on BMWs are flawless because there have been some notable examples of them cracking and it would not be fair to the folks that experienced unwarranted failure but I would venture to say this is mostly an issue to be addressed, if pushing a higher mileage vehicle or above-average boost levels.

After all the fear-mongering that was disperse here, throughout the years, regarding this potential failure, I was expecting it pop, at any given moment. I even had backup duct tape, replacement clamps and couplers, ready to go but ultimately I never needed it.

I still have warranty left, so I'm going to ride out the risk of it failing over replacing it with an aluminum pipe because of a few reasons.

One, being that a metal pipe would severely heat-soak over plastic and I believe it's kind of asinine that aftermarket aluminum pipes are claiming ultimate durability, when some utilizes silicone couplers and elbows, which is a form of rubber, vulnerable to expansion or ballooning.. It's almost seems like they're trading one potential design flaw for another and disguising this glaring fact.

Also, the end connect of an aluminum pipe retaining the OEM C-clip doesn't make a flexible mating hold to TB/housing, as the plastic pipe contours and does. Metal to metal would never flex and could potentially slip out, when vibrated.

Ultimately, the plastic pipe has been good to me and if it ever pops, I'm just going to chuck it up to wear and tear and replace it with an OEM piece..

Physics arguments aside, I suspect nominal performance differences between plastic and aluminium in real world use. The idea of the stock charge pipe cracking and possibly leaving one stranded is reason enough to upgrade. I am strongly considering the purchase of a charge pipe and this thread raises (again?) an interesting question. Does changing a charge pipe put a warranty at risk?. Poochie seems to suggest it does but he runs JB4/Dinan Stage I. I would think that a tune would be far riskier for voiding a warranty compared to changing a charge pipe or IC. Thoughts?
Since this subject popped up, I've done some research and found that plastic charge pipes are used by all auto manufactures with turbo-charged motors (Subaru, Mercedes, Ford, ect), which might be susceptible to cracking, over time.. Yet, that doesn't faze them from using it.

Just like a condom, sometimes it's going to break..

When the time comes, change it and move on..

However, I don't trust any of the aftermarket companies that currently manufacture aluminum pipe and silicone coupler, so I'll stick to OEM.. If it crack, it cracks, like whatever..
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      03-16-2020, 06:13 PM   #46
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Only N55, the S55 uses a different system..
Thanks for the info Poochie. My little flag for New Notifications doesn't work half the time
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      03-16-2020, 08:42 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Since this subject popped up, I've done some research and found that plastic charge pipes are used by all auto manufactures with turbo-charged motors (Subaru, Mercedes, Ford, ect), which might be susceptible to cracking, over time.. Yet, that doesn't faze them from using it.

Just like a condom, sometimes it's going to break..

When the time comes, change it and move on..

However, I don't trust any of the aftermarket companies that currently manufacture aluminum pipe and silicone coupler, so I'll stick to OEM.. If it crack, it cracks, like whatever..
For high volume plastic injection mold is going to be much cheaper than aluminum and silicone couplers.
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      03-17-2020, 10:56 AM   #48
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Do people feel masata gear is any good? Evolve did a recent quick product over view on YT of N55 chargepipe, looked ok but the finish to me always looks odd like it's slippery lol.

Imran mentioned CNC machined end adaptor points but don't really know what is standard anyway?
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      03-17-2020, 03:15 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Do people feel masata gear is any good? Evolve did a recent quick product over view on YT of N55 chargepipe, looked ok but the finish to me always looks odd like it's slippery lol.

Imran mentioned CNC machined end adaptor points but don't really know what is standard anyway?
Based on the YouTube video, the Masata type looks to me to almost certainly be either be an exact copy, or a re-branding (more likely) of the FTP pipe. The finish is identical, and so are the fittings for TMAP etc. Interestingly, even the meth bung plugs are identical to the FTP, and they're awful. They don't seal properly, and should be replaced with inexpensive 1/8 NPT plugs rather than those stupid bolts with O-rings that they provide.

The FTP pipe is fine, and a good compromise between cost and functionality. I replaced the meth bung plugs that I mentioned above, and the terrible cheap jubilee clamps with upgraded parts (and sold them with it), which made it much better.

What I didn't like about it, and the only reason I sold it, is that the upper meth bung is pointing directly at the TMAP sensor. This makes it totally unusable, and is simply not well thought out. As soon as the water / meth injection starts, it sprays onto the TMAP sensor and gives an artificially low temperature reading. In extreme cases, like flooring it from a standstill, this would put the engine in limp mode because of an unfeasible change in IAT over such a short duration.

I swapped mine for an ER product, and I think theirs is the best charge pipe available for the N55. A little more expensive, but the quality is top notch, and the meth bungs are in a much better location.

Yes, all the end adaptors on charge pipes that I've ever seen are CNC machined... nothing new there.
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      03-17-2020, 03:44 PM   #50
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Thanks for that info, sort of confirms my gut feeling that masata is a lower rate part.

The evolution is well regarded but overpriced for what it is.

I'm probably between ftp, forge and do88
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      03-17-2020, 03:46 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Thanks for that info, sort of confirms my gut feeling that masata is a lower rate part.

The evolution is well regarded but overpriced for what it is.

I'm probably between ftp, forge and do88
I'm not sure I'd say it's lower rate, but less well thought out.

FTP = Masata... If you're thinking FTP, make sure to budget for the screws and clamps to make it better. Also don't buy if you're ever going to do WMI (which I strongly recommend by the way - don't know why it seems to have a stigma).
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      03-17-2020, 06:00 PM   #52
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I'm not doing wmi seems mad to me the whole extra tank complication and stuff. I love my car sure and modding it but it's my daily!

NVM in the UK have a stage three M2 N55 at 600+bhp. In one of their videos they installed a forge charge pipe, I asked why and they said they only use products they trust.

I've used a forge intake before and it was well made tbf

So between them and do88 now!
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      03-17-2020, 06:04 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
I'm not doing wmi seems mad to me the whole extra tank complication and stuff. I love my car sure and modding it but it's my daily!

NVM in the UK have a stage three M2 N55 at 600+bhp. In one of their videos they installed a forge charge pipe, I asked why and they said they only use products they trust.

I've used a forge intake before and it was well made tbf

So between them and do88 now!
Fair enough, I didn't intend to go off topic, but btw... I use WMI with the washer fluid reservoir (no extra tank), and it's my daily. You have UK fuel though so you probably don't need to worry about WMI. The fuel in the US is woeful and I need it to get peak performance even out of the stock M2 map.

I've seen the NVM post and I'm thinking of getting in touch with them. I'm not expecting to get anywhere near the 600 bhp that they get, but the big turbo kit looks really interesting.

My biggest concern right now is the lag between shifts with 6MT... that will likely have a bigger impact that the extra power anyway!
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      03-17-2020, 06:38 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Based on the YouTube video, the Masata type looks to me to almost certainly be either be an exact copy, or a re-branding (more likely) of the FTP pipe. The finish is identical, and so are the fittings for TMAP etc. Interestingly, even the meth bung plugs are identical to the FTP, and they're awful. They don't seal properly, and should be replaced with inexpensive 1/8 NPT plugs rather than those stupid bolts with O-rings that they provide.

The FTP pipe is fine, and a good compromise between cost and functionality. I replaced the meth bung plugs that I mentioned above, and the terrible cheap jubilee clamps with upgraded parts (and sold them with it), which made it much better.

What I didn't like about it, and the only reason I sold it, is that the upper meth bung is pointing directly at the TMAP sensor. This makes it totally unusable, and is simply not well thought out. As soon as the water / meth injection starts, it sprays onto the TMAP sensor and gives an artificially low temperature reading. In extreme cases, like flooring it from a standstill, this would put the engine in limp mode because of an unfeasible change in IAT over such a short duration.

I swapped mine for an ER product, and I think theirs is the best charge pipe available for the N55. A little more expensive, but the quality is top notch, and the meth bungs are in a much better location.

Yes, all the end adaptors on charge pipes that I've ever seen are CNC machined... nothing new there.
If the meth bung plugs on the FTP are leaking a little, does that impact performance?
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      03-17-2020, 07:30 PM   #55
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If the meth bung plugs on the FTP are leaking a little, does that impact performance?
It makes the turbo work harder to maintain the target boost. As long as it's only a little, and you're not running a tune that targets a high boost value, maybe not.

I wouldn't think it would be something you'd want to 'let slide' though.
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      03-18-2020, 04:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911sanantone View Post
Physics arguments aside, I suspect nominal performance differences between plastic and aluminium in real world use. The idea of the stock charge pipe cracking and possibly leaving one stranded is reason enough to upgrade. I am strongly considering the purchase of a charge pipe and this thread raises (again?) an interesting question. Does changing a charge pipe put a warranty at risk?. Poochie seems to suggest it does but he runs JB4/Dinan Stage I. I would think that a tune would be far riskier for voiding a warranty compared to changing a charge pipe or IC. Thoughts?
To my surprise, I got a call today from the dealer and they replaced the charge pipe under warranty. And serviced the car at the same time. I really was expecting a bit of push back from them seeing as it has a bolt-on part they'd have noticed when doing the service and the charge pipe replacement.
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      03-18-2020, 05:10 PM   #57
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Don't get why you guys in US have crap fuel as a military and economic super power nation?!
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      03-18-2020, 05:13 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Don't get why you guys in US have crap fuel as a military and economic super power nation?!
I think it's due to several factors:
  • Government sponsors corn growers which results in lots of corn ethanol
  • Many states have smog limits which reduce the number of lighter hydrocarbons that are often used to raise octane
  • Price
  • Older american cars had huge, low compression engines, which don't need high octane
Just my thoughts... I'm British by the way, and miss the fuel... and the country lanes!
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      03-19-2020, 01:52 PM   #59
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ah but I see these smoking tyre videos in 'the canyons' with great tarmac, views, weather and no caravans.
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      03-21-2020, 07:29 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Wattens View Post
To my surprise, I got a call today from the dealer and they replaced the charge pipe under warranty. And serviced the car at the same time. I really was expecting a bit of push back from them seeing as it has a bolt-on part they'd have noticed when doing the service and the charge pipe replacement.
Good news. Glad that your dealer did the right thing. Has anyone had a dealer refuse to cover repairs under warranty because of the discovery of a replaced charge pipe, IC and/or tune ?
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      06-28-2020, 04:39 PM   #61
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I'm completely stock so I didn't think that thing would happen.. I was standing at a red light to turn right and I just got to 4-5k when I heard like I hit something or something has broken, it felt bad, only after a few minutes I've noticed the charge pipe part that connects to the throttle body just broke. Is it a common thing to happen to the n55 charge pipe ? I've read only one or two similar cases but with a 335i.
It was funny cause I was just having the car regular serviced and it happened on the way back home so the car just went back to them (on a towing bed I figured it would be better as there is no filter or no boost or anything)
Just happened to me. 18 LCI m2 with 15k miles. I'm completely stock. Funny thing is I was on my way to a Bimmer meet up with a bunch of other cars. I was driving spirited lol. Around 90 mph I went for a pass on the highway and felt a pop like something broke. Ruined my day. Not sure if the 100 degree heat had anything to do with it. Just gonna have the dealer fix it under warranty.
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      06-28-2020, 09:12 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Same here, I was waiting for the day a reputable company like maybe Dinan engineered a replacement pipe, that doesn't heat soak and also retains factory style O-ring throttle body lock flange, possibly, without the use of a silicone coupler.
I agree re: plastic charge pipe. Would be nice to see an improved part that isn't metal. But it's *way* cheaper to form a metal pipe than it is to invest in the cost of a mold and then get something produced out of plastic in volume.

FWIW - Dinan no longer has any relation to Steve Dinan. It is owned (through a layer or two) by a private equity firm. (The same company also owns APR, for what it's worth.)

TL;DR on that link - PE firms are generally just out to make money for themselves. They don't really care about your car. They don't care about what their parts (or software) might do to your car. They tend to buy companies and turn them into lifeless husks over some period of time, making buckets for the PE firm's ownership / management along the way.

I'm not gonna outwardly trash talk Dinan as I have no direct experience with anything they do. I have indirect experience with APR and have seen some of their cost-cutting measures (with hardware) and have spoken to "people knowledgeable in the field" (of ECU tuning) who have not had anything great to say about APR on the software front either.

Just my $2, but I would not ever spend money on car products from a company that's owned by a PE firm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
For high volume plastic injection mold is going to be much cheaper than aluminum and silicone couplers.
How many do you think a company is really going to sell? I'd wager that there are less than 15-25k (N55) M2s on the road, globally, and nobody is ever going to sell one to every owner. Producing a mold has relatively high costs, so you have to then get enough sales for it to make any business sense. Much "easier" to sell small quantities of bent pipes. Per-unit cost is higher, but at lower volume it makes more sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Don't get why you guys in US have crap fuel as a military and economic super power nation?!
Parts of the US have crap fuel. Mostly California / west coast, and I'm not really sure what the reason is behind that. Eastern US generally gets 93 for "premium" (on the "AKI" scale, [RON+MON]/2), while Western typically has 91 at best (without going to race gas). 93 US is roughly the same as EU/UK 98, with 91 being more like EU/UK 96.

Parts of the Rocky Mountain areas (e.g. Colorado) have even lower, because on older N/A cars you could run fine on AKI 85 (probably around an 89-90 RON?)... probably WAY less correct now, especially with F/I cars and modern ECUs.
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      06-29-2020, 05:38 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Same here, I was waiting for the day a reputable company like maybe Dinan engineered a replacement pipe, that doesn't heat soak and also retains factory style O-ring throttle body lock flange, possibly, without the use of a silicone coupler.
I agree re: plastic charge pipe. Would be nice to see an improved part that isn't metal. But it's *way* cheaper to form a metal pipe than it is to invest in the cost of a mold and then get something produced out of plastic in volume.

FWIW - Dinan no longer has any relation to Steve Dinan. It is owned (through a layer or two) by a private equity firm. (The same company also owns APR, for what it's worth.)

TL;DR on that link - PE firms are generally just out to make money for themselves. They don't really care about your car. They don't care about what their parts (or software) might do to your car. They tend to buy companies and turn them into lifeless husks over some period of time, making buckets for the PE firm's ownership / management along the way.

I'm not gonna outwardly trash talk Dinan as I have no direct experience with anything they do. I have indirect experience with APR and have seen some of their cost-cutting measures (with hardware) and have spoken to "people knowledgeable in the field" (of ECU tuning) who have not had anything great to say about APR on the software front either.

Just my $2, but I would not ever spend money on car products from a company that's owned by a PE firm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
For high volume plastic injection mold is going to be much cheaper than aluminum and silicone couplers.
How many do you think a company is really going to sell? I'd wager that there are less than 15-25k (N55) M2s on the road, globally, and nobody is ever going to sell one to every owner. Producing a mold has relatively high costs, so you have to then get enough sales for it to make any business sense. Much "easier" to sell small quantities of bent pipes. Per-unit cost is higher, but at lower volume it makes more sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Don't get why you guys in US have crap fuel as a military and economic super power nation?!
Parts of the US have crap fuel. Mostly California / west coast, and I'm not really sure what the reason is behind that. Eastern US generally gets 93 for "premium" (on the "AKI" scale, [RON+MON]/2), while Western typically has 91 at best (without going to race gas). 93 US is roughly the same as EU/UK 98, with 91 being more like EU/UK 96.

Parts of the Rocky Mountain areas (e.g. Colorado) have even lower, because on older N/A cars you could run fine on AKI 85 (probably around an 89-90 RON?)... probably WAY less correct now, especially with F/I cars and modern ECUs.
You took my quote out of context. I was making the point of why BMW and other OEMs use plastic pieces for stock parts, not aftermarket.
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      06-29-2020, 01:41 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Same here, I was waiting for the day a reputable company like maybe Dinan engineered a replacement pipe, that doesn't heat soak and also retains factory style O-ring throttle body lock flange, possibly, without the use of a silicone coupler.
I agree re: plastic charge pipe. Would be nice to see an improved part that isn't metal. But it's *way* cheaper to form a metal pipe than it is to invest in the cost of a mold and then get something produced out of plastic in volume.

FWIW - Dinan no longer has any relation to Steve Dinan. It is owned (through a layer or two) by a private equity firm. (The same company also owns APR, for what it's worth.)

TL;DR on that link - PE firms are generally just out to make money for themselves. They don't really care about your car. They don't care about what their parts (or software) might do to your car. They tend to buy companies and turn them into lifeless husks over some period of time, making buckets for the PE firm's ownership / management along the way.

I'm not gonna outwardly trash talk Dinan as I have no direct experience with anything they do. I have indirect experience with APR and have seen some of their cost-cutting measures (with hardware) and have spoken to "people knowledgeable in the field" (of ECU tuning) who have not had anything great to say about APR on the software front either.

Just my $2, but I would not ever spend money on car products from a company that's owned by a PE firm.

Regardless of who is now behind the helm at Dinan doesn't concern me, their name speak for itself. They where making the same quality of products they did 15 years, as they are 15 seconds. So if a PE owns the name now, like, whatever, they're doing a great job keeping the lineage going..

Do a search for aftermarket charge pipes for the N55 and you'll only find a bunch of no-name companies that I barely heard of, selling such a piece.

Alls I'm saying, I would feel a little more comfortable putting a reputable, like Dinan, brand of product, in my vehicle.
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      07-03-2020, 01:43 PM   #65
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Well...I heard a pop on my way home from work yesterday and the car went into limp mode shortly thereafter. Got home and checked under hood the cracked charge pipe got me!

A couple questions. I bought my 2017 used last October. It's still under warranty, but I have no idea what the previous owner did to the car. From my relatively amateur inspection of the car, it seems to be stock. I assumed it was stock, but how can I make sure, before bringing it into the dealership for repair? If it's been tuned, isn't there a box placed somewhere under the hood?

What are the obvious things to look out for?

Thanks in advance for the help!
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      07-04-2020, 03:37 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soygen View Post
Well...I heard a pop on my way home from work yesterday and the car went into limp mode shortly thereafter. Got home and checked under hood the cracked charge pipe got me!

A couple questions. I bought my 2017 used last October. It's still under warranty, but I have no idea what the previous owner did to the car. From my relatively amateur inspection of the car, it seems to be stock. I assumed it was stock, but how can I make sure, before bringing it into the dealership for repair? If it's been tuned, isn't there a box placed somewhere under the hood?

What are the obvious things to look out for?

Thanks in advance for the help!
Hi,
From me experience the dealer didn't even check anything, but mine isn't tuned or has bolt on parts (downpipe/intake) but a tune can't be discovered just by looking at the engine, they have to connect to it in order to find out (which I don't see any reason for them to do it).
Plus just so you know changing things using the warranty is actually in their interest because BMW pays for the labor and parts (at least where I'm from and it's usually everywhere like that).
So as long as you don't have anything you know of that you can see you shouldn't worry at all
Appreciate 1
Soygen0.00
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