[edycol]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

Thanks for recommendations and sharing the TAN/TBN bit—I'm not sure what those stand for so I'll need to learn me something. If you don't mind me asking, what's your background related to oils? What would you describe as a light track day vs. pushing it to the limits? I ask because I have used 300V in the past for race bikes, and wouldn't hesitate to use it or Sport in the car, but if 8100 would be OK, I can get a good deal on that oil.

For context, I've done 6 days at COTA in the last 1600 miles (rough math says that's ~860 miles on track) and have a couple days coming up over the next couple of months. These are pretty standard days where sessions are 25-30 minutes each. The frequency of track days will slow down over the summer for me due to the heat. I just don't enjoy being outside in 95°+ temps all day. And as of lately, the car doesn't get driven much between events—maybe the odd evening cruise or something similar.

I would keep using 300V. For your schedule, it requires oil designed for track/racing. Light track day? Half a day or day once a month.
But, once you are back on street for longer period of time I would switch to regular street oil. Street oils have more dispersants and detergents. They are better for grocery shopping, school runs etc. Motul Sport is designed to be good on track but also good on street. That is why price is close to 300V.
I was test driver for oil company and later for car magazine in Europe. Worked on oil, brake fluids etc. development, on ground testing.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by edycol

Liqui Moly is OK. But, IMO not on par with Motul, Castrol, Pennzoil (Shell), Mobil1, etc.
FCPEuro is good company, I get stuff from them, but not oil.
I go Castrol 0W40 in summer, Edge 0W30 in winter. IMO Edge 0W30 A3/B4 is still best every day oil for Euro cars without DPF/GPF. It is not track oil, but exceptional in every other aspect.
I personally would run Castrol 0W40 instead of Liqui Moly.

Is M1 0W-40 still without BMW LL whatever now? That was always a good choice and Porsche factory fill.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by chris719

Is M1 0W-40 still without BMW LL whatever now? That was always a good choice and Porsche factory fill.

No 0W40/30 oil with HTHS above 3.5 has LL01 (including Castrol 0W30/40). BMW increased already most stringent oxidation requirements to ridiculous levels so they can bump OCI. However, these oils that have to have esters or a lot of PAO to counter shear oxidize bit more. In N55/S55 that is non issue as they are from previous generation of BMW engines.
M1 0W40 is exceptional oil, but I would not use it in anything with direct injection. SAPS levels in that oil is ridiculous, and SAPS is your carbon build up. SAPS level in M1 0W40 is 1.34% and in Castrol 1.13%. That is HUGE difference.
I personally used M1 on track, but I have N52 engine. If I had N/S55 I would not use it.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by edycol

I would keep using 300V. For your schedule, it requires oil designed for track/racing. Light track day? Half a day or day once a month.
But, once you are back on street for longer period of time I would switch to regular street oil. Street oils have more dispersants and detergents. They are better for grocery shopping, school runs etc. Motul Sport is designed to be good on track but also good on street. That is why price is close to 300V.
I was test driver for oil company and later for car magazine in Europe. Worked on oil, brake fluids etc. development, on ground testing.

Cheers! edycol . I only have 1 or two days coming up over the next couple of months so I will try the Sport first and then switch to 300V when days at COTA are closer together.

[M1500Z]

In case anyone is curious what BMW 0W 30 is like after ahem a few track days, I received my UOA a few weeks back. I switched to Motul 8100 X-cess Gen 2 5W 40 (potentially a record for the length of name of an oil) for better track durability while keeping under warranty for the time being. I spoke with Blackstone over the phone and they reiterated that since this engine is new enough it's likely I'll see trace amounts of metal from break in. According to them, no concerns at this time.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

In case anyone is curious what BMW 0W 30 is like after ahem a few track days, I received my UOA a few weeks back. I switched to Motul 8100 X-cess Gen 2 5W 40 (potentially a record for the length of name of an oil) for better track durability while keeping under warranty for the time being. I spoke with Blackstone over the phone and they reiterated that since this engine is new enough it's likely I'll see trace amounts of metal from break in. According to them, no concerns at this time.

That KV100 gives me chills. It is well into 0W20 territory. Actually it is so low that I wouldn't be that confident in oil pressure on track during super hot days
Iron is uber high for that mileage but let's give it a pass since vehicle is new.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

In case anyone is curious what BMW 0W 30 is like after ahem a few track days, I received my UOA a few weeks back. I switched to Motul 8100 X-cess Gen 2 5W 40 (potentially a record for the length of name of an oil) for better track durability while keeping under warranty for the time being. I spoke with Blackstone over the phone and they reiterated that since this engine is new enough it's likely I'll see trace amounts of metal from break in. According to them, no concerns at this time.

Thanks for posting. I wonder what my BMW LL-1 0W-40 was like after 7 track days and over 15,000 miles.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Thanks for posting. I wonder what my BMW LL-1 0W-40 was like after 7 track days and over 15,000 miles.

Man, if you abuse oil again like that, send it to the Blackstone so we can see.

[M Fifty]

Did anyone watch the video of Rocky Mountain Race Week? Oil and Trans Fluid changes every day...

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Did anyone watch the video of Rocky Mountain Race Week? Oil and Trans Fluid changes every day...

No. But, my take is that they are using racing only fluids. Very (if at all) low on dispersants and detergents and very thin to lower parasitic losses. Probably heavy Ester based with high initial oxidation. You really don't want that stuff in an engine or transmission for a long time.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by edycol

Man, if you abuse oil again like that, send it to the Blackstone so we can see.

With you on that one. I would have if I was stateside. I have a bottle to send to Blackstone sitting on a shelf in a garage. Unfortunately I was in Germany, where I had no garage.

I might use that Blackstone bottle to test a jungle juice I just mixed in a Camaro. Car came with (I assume) synthetic 5W-30 from a dealer, with less than 1K miles on the oil.

It takes 10QT.

Then I drained 5.5 quarts, and added 3.5QT Mobil 1 15W-50, 1QT Castrol Syntec 5W-50, and 1QT Valvoline 5W-40, that last one is what the manual calls for if you're tracking. 5W-30 street use, 5W-40 track use.. I had a bunch of stuff sitting on the shelve and didn't want to waist perfectly good oil in it already.

So I should be running 8W-38 right now.... ish.

Curious how it stands up to 5,000 street miles and 3 track days I'm planning between now and end of September. I might run this one by Blackstone to see what they think.

I've done plenty of oil analysis after "extended" drain intervals, and it taught me to trust synthetic oil of 40+ viscosity rating. This is why I get this brave. But the mixology is new for me too, so let's see.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

With you on that one. I would have if I was stateside. I have a bottle to send to Blackstone sitting on a shelf in a garage. Unfortunately I was in Germany, where I had no garage.

I might use that Blackstone bottle to test a jungle juice I just mixed in a Camaro. Car came with (I assume) synthetic 5W-30 from a dealer, with less than 1K miles on the oil.

It takes 10QT.

Then I drained 5.5 quarts, and added 3.5QT Mobil 1 15W-50, 1QT Castrol Syntec 5W-50, and 1QT Valvoline 5W-40, that last one is what the manual calls for if you're tracking. 5W-30 street use, 5W-40 track use.. I had a bunch of stuff sitting on the shelve and didn't want to waist perfectly good oil in it already.

So I should be running 8W-38 right now.... ish.

Curious how it stands up to 5,000 street miles and 3 track days I'm planning between now and end of September. I might run this one by Blackstone to see what they think.

I've done plenty of oil analysis after "extended" drain intervals, and it taught me to trust synthetic oil of 40+ viscosity rating. This is why I get this brave. But the mixology is new for me too, so let's see.

Mixology could get some interesting effect if additives "get along." I am generally not fan of mixing oil of various manufacturers. In M1 15W50 you will have some PAO and maybe Esters. In Castrol 5W50 there is none of that, plain HC base stock there. Valvoline generally uses high quality HC base stock. How they "mingle" won't be possible to determine with the Blackstone analysis.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by edycol

Mixology could get some interesting effect if additives "get along." I am generally not fan of mixing oil of various manufacturers. In M1 15W50 you will have some PAO and maybe Esters. In Castrol 5W50 there is none of that, plain HC base stock there. Valvoline generally uses high quality HC base stock. How they "mingle" won't be possible to determine with the Blackstone analysis.

That is true. I made the decision that good base stock is what gives good protection. Additive packages are a bonus. So hoping for good result and "confused" additive element readings from Blackstone.

But does a bit more Zink, or a bit less Molybdenum make that much of a difference?

In the end, in my book Good Oil is Good Oil. So I see little risk. Let's hope my hunch is right.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

That is true. I made the decision that good base stock is what gives good protection. Additive packages are a bonus. So hoping for good result and "confused" additive element readings from Blackstone.

But does a bit more Zink, or a bit less Molybdenum make that much of a difference?

In the end, in my book Good Oil is Good Oil. So I see little risk. Let's hope my hunch is right.

Zinc is always preferred on track. Mobil1 15W50 is track oil and has around 1300ppm. It is on border to be unacceptable for street vehicles. Mobil1 purposely made that oil for people running the shit out of their cars on track. If you are spending a lot of time on track you can just go 15W50 M1.
ZDDP is basically last line of defense. If HTHS is not enough, ZDDP and other additives are what protects engine.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by edycol

Mixology could get some interesting effect if additives "get along." I am generally not fan of mixing oil of various manufacturers. In M1 15W50 you will have some PAO and maybe Esters. In Castrol 5W50 there is none of that, plain HC base stock there. Valvoline generally uses high quality HC base stock. How they "mingle" won't be possible to determine with the Blackstone analysis.

Yeah, a lot of people say mixing is fine, but I always wondered if you could get into a situation where you need a minimum amount of a certain anti-wear additive to be effective. For example, if you have half Castrol half Shell, Castrol has characterized the oil having x ppm of titanium. If you have half that amount, is that still effective? The effects of some of the additives may not be linear.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by chris719

Yeah, a lot of people say mixing is fine, but I always wondered if you could get into a situation where you need a minimum amount of a certain anti-wear additive to be effective. For example, if you have half Castrol half Shell, Castrol has characterized the oil having x ppm of titanium. If you have half that amount, is that still effective? The effects of some of the additives may not be linear.

This is a good point too, and I'm I don't have enough education to answer in a definitive fashion.

The way I think about it is that if you can run either Shell, or Castrol, and you get enough protection, than it will also work with a mix. On the chemistry level if one has a lot Titanium, and one doesn't, in the end you'll end up half way in the middle in terms of PPMs.

The big question is if any of the other chemicals interact with each other in a non-desired way.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

This is a good point too, and I'm I don't have enough education to answer in a definitive fashion.

The way I think about it is that if you can run either Shell, or Castrol, and you get enough protection, than it will also work with a mix. On the chemistry level if one has a lot Titanium, and one doesn't, in the end you'll end up half way in the middle in terms of PPMs.

The big question is if any of the other chemicals interact with each other in a non-desired way.

Shell doesn't mix well. Base stocks are issues. If you add titanium it is bit lees, but no harm. Base stocks are usually issue. Shell (Pennzoil) tends to foam when mixed with certain oils. But you really cannot know until it happens.