[Jadar]

Originally Posted by W///

Just reading from this post alone, I can tell you right now that the M2 is not for you.

Hell you can compare ANY M cars that BMW makes (M2/3/6) to the GT350 and they'll come short in the performance category. As a matter of fact, I predict the GT350 will take out many cars that are much more expensive than it.

If pure speed and performance is what you are looking for, the M2 is not for you. The car will come will have over 100 less HP than the Ford. How is it supposed to compete?

Personally, while I very much respect the GT350, it's not the car for me. I have 0 use for 500 hp on an every day basis. My emphasis is on it being fun and nimble, while having more than enough power for daily driving, which the M2 ticks all those boxes. The M3, not so much, because it's a bigger car than I want, although I haven't ruled out having it be my mini-M5.

Like dmboone is saying, the M2 is not pretending to be something it's not. It will neither be as quick as the GT350 or the M3, but it should certainly be more playful.

Great points. Yeah the Gt350 will be a fantastic deal for me since I work for Ford and can get a plan price. Its been a while since Ive been interested in Mustangs but this one is definitely a car that has my attention. From what I have seen personally its the real deal. Its a monster of a car that can be tracked at any given moment and deliver at a high level. Like you said beat cars even in a higher price point.

But who knows I may see an M2 in person and or drive one and completely fall in love. Im a BMW nut and Ford nut so I think if I end up with a GT350, M2 or F80 its going to be a win for me. I just cant ignore getting a GT350 @ $48,900 after my discount.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Amgeater2

All I see is people thrashing the car already...

So let me get this straight, you guys want an M2 with:

///M Seats
///M Setting (adaptive, steering, and Throttle)
DCT and DCT settings
Merino Leather
Extended leather...
Carbon Roof

why will BMW build this ???

and have the BALLS to make comments like the one below:

Make it an affordable ///M for those who want is good. But come on BMW, let the others (those who just do not like the M4...)

Exactly right - for the base M2 anyway,

If BMW really does make a CSL/GTS variant of this car, then I think you will potentially see all or a lot of those things...and will pay handsomely for it.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

I just don't understand this whole thing. I honestly don't see how anyone can be impressed by it. Don't get me wrong; I love BMW's. I've only had BMW's, I'm a BMW technician and go to BMW events, but this stupid car is just too little for too much. So far from what I've read, it just has an N55 with a few different parts and a tune, four tail pipes and wider fenders? That makes it an M car?

OMG this entire post is exactly 4 years old.

HINT: See 1M

[W///]

Originally Posted by dd1981

Great points. Yeah the Gt350 will be a fantastic deal for me since I work for Ford and can get a plan price. Its been a while since Ive been interested in Mustangs but this one is definitely a car that has my attention. From what I have seen personally its the real deal. Its a monster of a car that can be tracked at any given moment and deliver at a high level. Like you said beat cars even in a higher price point.

But who knows I may see an M2 in person and or drive one and completely fall in love. Im a BMW nut and Ford nut so I think if I end up with a GT350, M2 or F80 its going to be a win for me. I just cant ignore getting a GT350 @ $48,900 after my discount.

That's very enticing for sure. Personally, I already have a big V8 (E92 M3) that I'm never going to sell so I want to try something a bit different. Not saying that my car and the GT350 compare of course.

If I were you, I'd wait until next year:
- I'm assuming the GT350's will be impossible to get this year, even for employees?
- F80 will not only get LCI, but ZCP soon enough
- Review of the M2 will be out

We are very fortunate with so many damn good cars coming out. As someone who DIY's and plan to keep the cars for a while, I feel like this is one last hurrah before cars become too big and complicated. Great time to buy

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Truthfully, I think that's the point. The M2 will sell in lower numbers on purpose - partly because BMW will make fewer of them, and partly because the overall lack of options will "push" people into an M3/4.

That's not by accident. We know from the 1M experiment that many folks who weren't lucky or fastidious enough in their respective searching for an open allocation ended up in an E9X M3.

BMW is likely hoping for the same kind of result here - sell out of the M2 (no repeat of the Z4MC overproduction and 10K discounts) and have additional folks moving into the higher end M cars.

It's a win/win for them...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dd1981

Great points. Yeah the Gt350 will be a fantastic deal for me since I work for Ford and can get a plan price. Its been a while since Ive been interested in Mustangs but this one is definitely a car that has my attention. From what I have seen personally its the real deal. Its a monster of a car that can be tracked at any given moment and deliver at a high level. Like you said beat cars even in a higher price point.

But who knows I may see an M2 in person and or drive one and completely fall in love. Im a BMW nut and Ford nut so I think if I end up with a GT350, M2 or F80 its going to be a win for me. I just cant ignore getting a GT350 @ $48,900 after my discount.

Why don't you just buy the GT350 now? you will be bored with it by next summer... Either that or you will love it and you won't care about the M2

[Variance]

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons that people are upset about this is due to the misleading info drops from SCOTT26. He had multiple posts drawing attention to the fact that the seats were covered, and, as I recall, acknowledged that the M2 will have "special" or "unique" seats. You have to admit that most people would not consider M235i seats with contrasting stitching to be all that special.

Regarding all the apologists drawing comparisons to the 1M, wasn't it widely understood that many of the 1M's "compromises" were due to the relatively short development schedule? While I agree that some of the demands people are making seem to be a bit out there (2700 lb, S55, $45k MSRP, etc), I personally feel like it is not all that outrageous to expect just a bit more from a car has had a development schedule 2-3 times as long as the 1M.

That being said, I will always be sad that this car does not have an S20 under the hood.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk

The crying bit wasnt aimed at you, directly. There is more to cross shopping than price point, IMO. FWIW, I think the GT350 is pretty BA.

My feeling about the M2 is this isnt for people considering Mustangs or Mercs, for that matter. Its for the BMW guy/girl who longs for a modern e46 M3. The flip side is BMW is gonna make you pay. It will be the better M car. A great as the 911 is, the Cayman is the better Porsche. My gut tells me this will be the same situation.

this is EXACTLY the point... Anyone here that is disappointed with the M2 should stop waiting and go buy whatever else. If you are THRILLED with it.. EXCITED by it... then stick around.... but if you are already disappointed... and think something is going to turn that around.... I really doubt it.


I bought my 1M when I realized what a FANTASTIC BARGAIN it is.

Anyone recall the base price of an E43 M3 Competition package?


The 1M came in well below that price.... and was a STEAL and then became one of the best vehicle values ever.

let's start the wayback machine and actually start making some sense..

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=437884


The M2 probably will come in around the same price as that E46 M3 Comp... and will still be a great value.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Variance

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons that people are upset about this is due to the misleading info drops from SCOTT26. He had multiple posts drawing attention to the fact that the seats were covered, and, as I recall, acknowledged that the M2 will have "special" or "unique" seats. You have to admit that most people would not consider M235i seats with contrasting stitching to be all that special.

Regarding all the apologists drawing comparisons to the 1M, wasn't it widely understood that many of the 1M's "compromises" were due to the relatively short development schedule? While I agree that some of the demands people are making seem to be a bit out there (2700 lb, S55, $45k MSRP, etc), I personally feel like it is not all that outrageous to expect just a bit more from a car has had a development schedule 2-3 times as long as the 1M.

That being said, I will always be sad that this car does not have an S20 under the hood.

Not really. I've been following BMW launches since the E46 M3 days and "Scott" was around various forums doing the exact same thing. I just happen to take everything he says with a cup of salt, and warned everyone else to do so as well.

The idea of an S20 would have been very interesting for sure. But at the same time, you can never go wrong with BMW I6's. Not to mention you would have had people up in arms about how a $50k M car should not have a 4 cylinder as shown in the really early threads.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Variance

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons that people are upset about this is due to the misleading info drops from SCOTT26. He had multiple posts drawing attention to the fact that the seats were covered, and, as I recall, acknowledged that the M2 will have "special" or "unique" seats. You have to admit that most people would not consider M235i seats with contrasting stitching to be all that special.

Regarding all the apologists drawing comparisons to the 1M, wasn't it widely understood that many of the 1M's "compromises" were due to the relatively short development schedule? While I agree that some of the demands people are making seem to be a bit out there (2700 lb, S55, $45k MSRP, etc), I personally feel like it is not all that outrageous to expect just a bit more from a car has had a development schedule 2-3 times as long as the 1M.

That being said, I will always be sad that this car does not have an S20 under the hood.

The seats are unique.... his comment wasn't false... Just want to get this right.... So it's Scott 26s fault that people got all excited and made up stuff that they wanted and then began to believe it so much that they then get all BUTT HURT when it doesn't happen ?

I am not an apologist.... I am a 1M owner... thank you.

What I am saying to YOU is ... that BMW IS MAKING AN APOLOGY FOR NOT PRODUCING THE 1M LONGER... .. And it's called an M2.

Why would they want to mess with this formula much? They could have sold 1500-2000 1Ms a year for several years but they could barely squeeze them out of the factory.. So now... BMW is making an M2 and they look to be adding some features that 1M buyers couldn't get.. (DCT... the color blue.. and possibly a sunroof)

Originally Posted by Swiss Chris

And where is the problem ?


If possible, I would go for a full individual M2, including CCB etc and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Why would all this stuff not be available ?

All this is already "developped" [sic] for bigger ///M cars. It costs just nothing for BMW to propose this for the M2. The just add marges. [sic]

Excellent question... and I have the answer...

I will say it again and again .... BMW is NOT PREPARED to make this a HIGH VOLUME VEHICLE. BMW WAS NOT PREPARED TO MAKE THE 1M A HIGH VOLUME VEHICLE EITHER because the Leipzig plant was too busy producing other 1 series hatches for markets other than the US., and of course the seriously high volume X1 for US and European markets.. Look at 2 series sales vs 3 sales... and you can see that 2 series production is TINY. And guess what... a brand new X1 is coming..

There will be a few M2s sprinkled in that production line but it's gonna mostly be 3 and 5 door 135s.... and a TON of X1s.

So... for everyone who wants this to have a long options list...... be happy that you can get in blue... be happy that you might be able to get a sunroof if that's important to you... be happy that you can get a DCT.... and be happy that you can even get it AT ALL. But if you want to spec it out the way you want it.. including the color you want... a motor that's not an N55... CCB... or you want better seats.... well just get in line and get an F80 so you aren't disappointed later..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by W///

Not really. I've been following BMW launches since the E46 M3 days and "Scott" was around various forums doing the exact same thing. I just happen to take everything he says with a cup of salt, and warned everyone else to do so as well.

The idea of an S20 would have been very interesting for sure. But at the same time, you can never go wrong with BMW I6's. Not to mention you would have had people up in arms about how a $50k M car should not have a 4 cylinder as shown in the really early threads.

my personal opinion is that this forum is absolutely used for marketing and development... Ideas are floated here and researched..

people on these forums shot down an S20 powered M car as if BMW has never made a 4 cylinder engine.

Vehicles like the 135 hatch get KILLED in this forum.... and so BMW made a coupe for the US and they also redesigned the headlights...

Those same people will be up in arms when the Boxster comes out as a 50K car with a 4 cylinder turbo..

[Variance]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

The seats are unique.... his comment wasn't false... Just want to get this right.... So it's Scott 26s fault that people got all excited and made up stuff that they wanted and then began to believe it so much that they then get all BUTT HURT when it doesn't happen ?

Woah buddy, calm down. Nowhere in my post did I say that his comments were false. I specifically used "misleading", because, as you said, the contrasting stitching does technically make these seats unique. Although the cloth/alcantara m-sport seats that we can't get in the US already had it, the combination of the stitching and leather is new to the 2er.

As W/// stated above, it's become rather clear that Scott's statements should be taken with a grain of salt, and not read in to nearly to the level that many on this forum seem to do. This is what has set some of the more vocal members up for "heartbreak", if you will. I am admittedly guilty of this from way back when he told us that they were working on an "S20" for this car.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Variance

Woah buddy, calm down. Nowhere in my post did I say that his comments were false. I specifically used "misleading", because, as you said, the contrasting stitching does technically make these seats unique. Although the cloth/alcantara m-sport seats that we can't get in the US already had it, the combination of the stitching and leather is new to the 2er.

As W/// stated above, it's become rather clear that Scott's statements should be taken with a grain of salt, and not read in to nearly to the level that many on this forum seem to do. This is what has set some of the more vocal members up for "heartbreak", if you will. I am admittedly guilty of this from way back when he told us that they were working on an "S20" for this car.

Wow.. don't be so obtuse..

Just because Scotts mention of a unique seat doesn't match up to your expectation doesn't make it misleading.. LOL

[dbworld4k]

Originally Posted by Haslamhazza

Has it not got red, blue and white stitching on wheels like other m cars?

That's only for the July 4 'Murica edition.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Those same people will be up in arms when the Boxster comes out as a 50K car with a 4 cylinder turbo..

This is interesting to me, but from a different perspective. The dealer was suggesting that the new 4 banger will be faster than the flat 6 I have in the Cayman S now, and that waiting on that could be a good option for me as well - but coming from three straight turbo-powered cars, I was more than happy with the NA experience the current 981 provides.

In terms of visceral experience, that's where the 981 shines IMO. It's not a screamer - but it feels great and makes a great (both induction and exhaust) noise - those are two things that I missed more than I realized.

I am sure the engine will be good, but I am enjoying the hell out of the one I have now.

[Variance]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Wow.. don't be so obtuse..

Just because Scotts mention of a unique seat doesn't match up to your expectation doesn't make it misleading.. LOL

I could say the same to you, friend. Nowhere in either of my posts did I state my own feelings on the seats or Scott's comments on them; I was simply drawing a conclusion on the potential cause of the backlash from the general population of this forum. I think you need to take a step back and stop taking every negative comment as a personal attack on yourself.

I think you are misunderstanding my usage of "misleading" in this context. A statement can be misleading even if the originator did not mean for it to be: if the majority of people who read the statement misconstrue its meaning, then the statement itself can be said to be misleading. Judging from the number of negative reactions in this thread, as well as the fact that a number of automotive news outlets have reported "rumors of M3/M4 seats" or similar, it can likely be said that, even if unintentional, Scott's statements on the seats were misleading.

Regardless, this argument is straying away from the original purpose of this thread, so let's just call it here and return to the topic at hand: the spy shots and the news they bring.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Variance

I could say the same to you, friend. Nowhere in either of my posts did I state my own feelings on the seats or Scott's comments on them; I was simply drawing a conclusion on the potential cause of the backlash from the general population of this forum. I think you need to take a step back and stop taking every negative comment as a personal attack on yourself.

I think you are misunderstanding my usage of "misleading" in this context. A statement can be misleading even if the originator did not mean for it to be: if the majority of people who read the statement misconstrue its meaning, then the statement itself can be said to be misleading. Judging from the number of negative reactions in this thread, as well as the fact that a number of automotive news outlets have reported "rumors of M3/M4 seats" or similar, it can likely be said that, even if unintentional, Scott's statements on the seats were misleading.

Regardless, this argument is straying away from the original purpose of this thread, so let's just call it here and return to the topic at hand: the spy shots and the news they bring.

you mean you don't want to discuss what it means to infer and imply?

[W///]

Anyyywaaaayy...

I actually tried looking up if there were more pictures from that website the original post. Anyone have any luck? It was from buycartv.com

[Bdh821]

All I know is I wouldn't buy it if I couldn't individually adjust the steering to the most sporty unlike a 335 or any other base model. I was also curious about the lack of buttons next to the shifter..

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk

The crying bit wasnt aimed at you, directly. There is more to cross shopping than price point, IMO. FWIW, I think the GT350 is pretty BA.

My feeling about the M2 is this isnt for people considering Mustangs or Mercs, for that matter. Its for the BMW guy/girl who longs for a modern e46 M3. The flip side is BMW is gonna make you pay. It will be the better M car. A great as the 911 is, the Cayman is the better Porsche. My gut tells me this will be the same situation.

I think that's the one to wait for. M2 GTS

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Variance

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons that people are upset about this is due to the misleading info drops from SCOTT26. He had multiple posts drawing attention to the fact that the seats were covered, and, as I recall, acknowledged that the M2 will have "special" or "unique" seats. You have to admit that most people would not consider M235i seats with contrasting stitching to be all that special.

Regarding all the apologists drawing comparisons to the 1M, wasn't it widely understood that many of the 1M's "compromises" were due to the relatively short development schedule? While I agree that some of the demands people are making seem to be a bit out there (2700 lb, S55, $45k MSRP, etc), I personally feel like it is not all that outrageous to expect just a bit more from a car has had a development schedule 2-3 times as long as the 1M.

That being said, I will always be sad that this car does not have an S20 under the hood.

I have a question...
What do you see in the latest pictures from the prototype in China?
I relatively do not see anything because there are coverings over areas where they know everybody wants to see but they don't want you to yet.
As I have repeatedly mentioned I am not as close to this development this time around as I am more closer to our sustainable programmes which does include BMW M. But only with certain but not fully committed to (yet) conceptual ideas.
I can only comment on what I see from time to time and from what I hear from excited colleagues.

I do know that BMW M are very excited for the M2 and the M4 GTS as they will be entirely unique and special enthusiast cars in a class of their own and with the combination of sustainable innovation with performance combined with lightweight materials will also give BMW M. A very exciting tomorrow.

There is a general anticipation at BMW M because the weight issue has been cracked and has put the company at the forefront of Carbon Fibre innovation and application years ahead of their competitors.
Many may say its just a more powerful M235i but you are wrong. In the same way that they say 1er M Coupe was a progressive 135i which they were wrong also. Those that still stick to that argument have shown their ignorance that they have never driven one.
And so will it be with the M2.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I have a question...
What do you see in the latest pictures from the prototype in China?
I relatively do not see anything because there are coverings over areas where they know everybody wants to see but they don't want you to yet.
As I have repeatedly mentioned I am not as close to this development this time around as I am more closer to our sustainable programmes which does include BMW M. But only with certain but not fully committed to (yet) conceptual ideas.
I can only comment on what I see from time to time and from what I hear from excited colleagues.

I do know that BMW M are very excited for the M2 and the M4 GTS as they will be entirely unique and special enthusiast cars in a class of their own.
There is a general anticipation at BMW M because the weight issue has been cracked and has put the company at the forefront of Carbon Fibre innovation and application years ahead of their competitors.
Many may say its just a more powerful M235i but you are wrong. In the same way that they say 1er M Coupe was a progressive 135i which they were wrong also. Those that still stick to that argument have shown their ignorance that they have never driven one.
And so will it be with the M2.

BURNNNNNNN