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      11-07-2019, 08:54 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
But isn't that old Honda system a hydraulic system with an electric pump?

Ie electro-hydraulic? So it will feel like a regular hydraulic system.

Full EPS is electric motor driven only.
No it is fully electric and also have a electrically variable gear ratio systems

Like mentionned by other people it became a standard because people want to be able to switch between a comfort steering and a sport steering
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      11-07-2019, 09:23 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011zx10R View Post
And...

Also heard it's safer not having a spear/steering rod pointed at your chest...
EPS is not steer by wire and even most steer by wire systems like Nissan and Infiniti's have backup clutches that close giving you a solid steering column.

Hate to break it to you but the spear is still there.
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      11-07-2019, 09:28 AM   #47
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"I can't say that I'm surprised at the car that they seemed to enjoy the most"

Surprised this hasn't come up more (or at all other than your post) in this thread. I will certainly go check one out. Might make a good DD to go with my aging e92 M.

Edit: quote from Fuller. App didn't work to transfer quote.
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      11-07-2019, 10:08 AM   #48
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I really want the Veloster N. I will be looking out for one in the near future.
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      11-07-2019, 10:20 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymix View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by COChris View Post
M2 and M2C are EPS. 1M has hydraulic steering.
I guess that's the reason why they prefer the steering feeling of 1M. EPS still can't match the feeling of hydraulic steering.
Thought Porsche comes close

Edit: looks like a lot people already address it...
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      11-07-2019, 11:07 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011zx10R View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by COChris View Post
M2 and M2C are EPS. 1M has hydraulic steering.
Why did auto manufacturers move to electric steering? Does it save weight or free up a lot more space in the engine bay?
Saves weight, frees up space, less costs to manufacture/source materials, easier (in theory) to maintain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by COChris View Post
M2 and M2C are EPS. 1M has hydraulic steering.
Why did auto manufacturers move to electric steering? Does it save weight or free up a lot more space in the engine bay?
Saves weight, frees up space, less costs to manufacture/source materials, easier (in theory) to maintain.
And...

Also heard it's safer not having a spear/steering rod pointed at your chest...
not sure about that one... correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever hearing; "...death by steering column..."
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      11-07-2019, 11:18 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
I am pretty sure R&T and C&D get different cars to every other publication on the planet. It is almost comical at this stage.
There's a lot of of room for subjectivity - very easy to drive a Porsche/Audi harder and get better results (if VAG pays more for advertising) and drive the competition slower and claim it doesn't hold up.
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      11-07-2019, 11:19 AM   #52
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The EPS is more efficient by a marginal amount ~ 4%. Also, IIRC - The only way to get stop/start was with EPS steering, due to the way a hydraulic pump works.

Porsche is the best with EPS steering, but go drive a 997, the hydraulic is better in my opinion. The weight distribution of a 911 and a Cayman really help the EPS, without all that weight on the front end, the switch to EPS is less noticeable than a front engine car.
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      11-07-2019, 11:26 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i128 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011zx10R View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by COChris View Post
M2 and M2C are EPS. 1M has hydraulic steering.
Why did auto manufacturers move to electric steering? Does it save weight or free up a lot more space in the engine bay?
Saves weight, frees up space, less costs to manufacture/source materials, easier (in theory) to maintain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by COChris View Post
M2 and M2C are EPS. 1M has hydraulic steering.
Why did auto manufacturers move to electric steering? Does it save weight or free up a lot more space in the engine bay?
Saves weight, frees up space, less costs to manufacture/source materials, easier (in theory) to maintain.
And...

Also heard it's safer not having a spear/steering rod pointed at your chest...
not sure about that one... correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall ever hearing; "...death by steering column..."
This is partially why steering columns that crumple and airbags were invented.... https://www.thedrive.com/vintage/609...re-death-traps and https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...-60-years-ago/

This was a big concern and even led to regulation - http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/a...ems-come-focus


https://sites.google.com/site/uavjw8...eering-columns

But yes, in recent years, super rare.
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      11-07-2019, 12:39 PM   #54
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That was a great article by R&T. Refreshing and insightful. It takes some guts to pick a Hyundai, while pointing out the flaws of the other contenders, kudos to R&T.

Summary paragraphs
“For all their bluster and power, their lap times and displacement, most of the carmakers at this test made a deal with the devil—they traded what once made them great in the search for outright speed. Never has the disparity been greater between the capabilities of a modern fast car and what is legally possible. The new definition of performance isn’t what a car can do, but what it will do on a good road.

The Veloster N is what a great front-wheel-drive car should feel like. A delight that welds a smile to your face every time you drive it. It cheers you on, treating you like the hero. And it came from a company that had no reason to build it. Chevrolet has to make a Corvette; Porsche, a 911. Short of a giant meteorite or nuclear winter, those names will always exist. Cars like the Veloster N are more special, crafted not of obligation, but for the sheer joy of driving. That’s why the Hyundai Veloster N is Road & Track’s 2020 Performance Car of the Year.

We got your letter, Hyundai. We heart you, too.”
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      11-07-2019, 01:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
I think he's saying it's faster...but, more numb with regards to feel than the outgoing M2
If only they knew it is the same suspension, steering rack, etc. Sometimes I think these journalists look for differences that don’t exist.
Precisely.
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      11-07-2019, 03:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011zx10R View Post
And...

Also heard it's safer not having a spear/steering rod pointed at your chest...
All cars have had collapsible steering columns since mandated about 1970.
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      11-07-2019, 05:22 PM   #57
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My brother has been looking at buying a Veloster N. I went with him to look at one and I was quite impressed with what you get for the money compared to a GTI or WRX up here.
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      11-07-2019, 05:46 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
That was a great article by R&T. Refreshing and insightful. It takes some guts to pick a Hyundai, while pointing out the flaws of the other contenders, kudos to R&T.

Summary paragraphs
“For all their bluster and power, their lap times and displacement, most of the carmakers at this test made a deal with the devil—they traded what once made them great in the search for outright speed. Never has the disparity been greater between the capabilities of a modern fast car and what is legally possible. The new definition of performance isn’t what a car can do, but what it will do on a good road.

The Veloster N is what a great front-wheel-drive car should feel like. A delight that welds a smile to your face every time you drive it. It cheers you on, treating you like the hero. And it came from a company that had no reason to build it. Chevrolet has to make a Corvette; Porsche, a 911. Short of a giant meteorite or nuclear winter, those names will always exist. Cars like the Veloster N are more special, crafted not of obligation, but for the sheer joy of driving. That’s why the Hyundai Veloster N is Road & Track’s 2020 Performance Car of the Year.

We got your letter, Hyundai. We heart you, too.”
I actually agree with them. I just think the M2C barely rides that limit of not being too fast to enjoy on public roads. But I really only think that because i'm confident in my driving skills and i'm willing to make the journey to get out of the city and drive it in the middle of nowhere.

Other people are going to draw that line somewhere else, and more power to them. If i hadn't spent the last 14 years driving a 300 hp RWD car in the rain almost every day, the M2C might not be the car for me either.

Edit: also, side note, the Veloster N is rad. I really really like that car, I just wish it came with a different body (the i30 N is much better looking, has smaller blind spots and is more practical IMHO)
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      11-07-2019, 08:59 PM   #59
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There seems to be a lot of crossing the lines between EPS, hydraulic, and amount of steering feel. Both EPS and hydraulic can be tuned for more or less steering feel. Hydraulic doesn't necessarily have better feel than EPS. For example an older Cadillac with hydraulic that has been designed to shelter the driver from the road compared to an M2 EPS. More feel in the M2. Example of the Macan EPS vs say a GT4 EPS. They are tuned for different amounts of feel. Porsche is tuning the Macan steering feel differently by design.
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      11-08-2019, 04:04 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrat 2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymix View Post
EPS still can't match the feeling of hydraulic steering.
Hmmm. Porsche seems to have figured it out. My 981 EPS feedback is pretty good and waay better than my M2.
Get gts steering coded on your m2 and you'll think of it the other way around.
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      11-08-2019, 06:08 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
That was a great article by R&T. Refreshing and insightful. It takes some guts to pick a Hyundai, while pointing out the flaws of the other contenders, kudos to R&T.

Summary paragraphs
“For all their bluster and power, their lap times and displacement, most of the carmakers at this test made a deal with the devil—they traded what once made them great in the search for outright speed. Never has the disparity been greater between the capabilities of a modern fast car and what is legally possible. The new definition of performance isn’t what a car can do, but what it will do on a good road.

The Veloster N is what a great front-wheel-drive car should feel like. A delight that welds a smile to your face every time you drive it. It cheers you on, treating you like the hero. And it came from a company that had no reason to build it. Chevrolet has to make a Corvette; Porsche, a 911. Short of a giant meteorite or nuclear winter, those names will always exist. Cars like the Veloster N are more special, crafted not of obligation, but for the sheer joy of driving. That’s why the Hyundai Veloster N is Road & Track’s 2020 Performance Car of the Year.

We got your letter, Hyundai. We heart you, too.”
I wonder if Hyundai gives test drives of it. IMO sometimes these magazines get enamored with the less expensive "underdog" car. I bought a G35 coupe with sport suspension based on reviews like this and then I discovered what oversprung and underdamped is.

I will say, if anyone wants "steering feel" just buy a 2005 G35 coupe with sport suspension or a 350Z of the same MY. You could run over a newspaper and read it, but somehow it still had body roll and was unsettled by any mid-corner bump.
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      11-08-2019, 09:24 AM   #62
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Best steering feel Iíve experienced is from my Caterham 420R - no assistance at all is where its at if you want proper feedback!!

My M4CP I think has okay steering but in reality it is closer to my X5 (which has frankly alarming lacks of feedback) than it is to my 7.

Ps. I know its not really comparable but I think people obsess about really small differences when in reality they are all reasonable but not great. The feedback you get in all EPS cars isnít really useful I donít think - it is more a subjective sense of connectedness (which is still important of course).
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      11-08-2019, 09:27 AM   #63
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On a two hour commute to meetings yesterday I drove the M2C in comfort mode the whole way and liked it. I really do think it provides more feed back than sport and sport plus. I don't think I'm the first to say that either.

On the track Sunday I'll try comfort and sport as well.
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      11-08-2019, 09:34 AM   #64
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Quote:
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On a two hour commute to meetings yesterday I drove the M2C in comfort mode the whole way and liked it. I really do think it provides more feed back than sport and sport plus. I don't think I'm the first to say that either.

On the track Sunday I'll try comfort and sport as well.
If its anything like my M4 (which I suspect it is) then Sport and Sport+ add weight and hence reduce subjective ‘feel’ as it is behind a thicker blanket - if that makes sense.

Always have the M4 in comfort for steering. Too heavy for no reason in S/S+.
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      11-08-2019, 12:48 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I will say, if anyone wants "steering feel" just buy a 2005 G35 coupe with sport suspension or a 350Z of the same MY. You could run over a newspaper and read it, but somehow it still had body roll and was unsettled by any mid-corner bump.
Hah, my other car is a 2006 350Z. It does indeed have great steering feel and after driving the M2C with the 350Z back to back a bunch of times....The steering feel in the M2C is fine. It's not as good, but it's fine, and the car handles better than the Z in virtually every situation.

Quote:
Ps. I know its not really comparable but I think people obsess about really small differences when in reality they are all reasonable but not great. The feedback you get in all EPS cars isnít really useful I donít think - it is more a subjective sense of connectedness (which is still important of course).
Exactly this. The EPS in the M2C doesn't lack feedback to the point where I'd lose confidence, in fact it's not even close.
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      11-08-2019, 03:35 PM   #66
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I watch most of the hot hatch type videos because that's what my X2 m35i mostly matches with and it is amazing how much hype and praise the Hyundai has gotten. They certainly seem to have found the right mix. I haven't run into one on the streets yet, really the only one of the bunch that I have has been an Sti save for the TCR spec Type R I saw on the interstate, but he wasn't game to having any fun given it probably wasn't road legal.
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