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      03-11-2014, 01:15 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by BJCO23 View Post
It took me 6 months to find my 335i E90 manual as CPO but had to go to northern California and endes up with a new one. I'm now selling it and there seems to only be a few peeps looking for 6Spd manual with 4 doors. Shame on the market!
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Originally Posted by italia View Post
Yes, sad. Going forward, buying rather than leasing a MT should be a bigger consideration due to the re-sale issues. Unfortunately, if they haven't already, residuals on MT may begin to reflect the re-sale challenges of MT cars.
That's kind of perplexing to me because when I was in the market, the MT's were scooped up very quick...we're talking about on the market for less than a week. And your car seems to have msport and navi which makes it even more desirable. I would venture to say that there are even more enthusiasts in the used car market (since they can't afford new) and the residual is actually higher since less people buy MT's new...whereas autos flood the market.
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      03-11-2014, 01:20 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ZooMMM View Post
...

My wife thinks I'm nuts when I enjoy spooling the engine of a 4-cyl. econobox rental MT car every time we go on vacation in the Caribbean or Central/South America. Won't take my rental car any other way.

...
My 6MT GTI (4 cyl 2.0l turbo) IS A BLAST to drive! They're so much fun! And it sounds pretty good, so I agree entirely.
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      03-11-2014, 01:21 PM   #69
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I think a major factor, at least for some of the higher end BMWs, is the availability of double-clutch transmissions. These are not the slushboxes of old. As a manual-transmission-driving enthusiast, I have to admit that driving the DKG is a joyous experience. I will never deliberately opt for a conventional automatic slushbox, but if double-clutch is available on my next car, I sure will be tempted.
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      03-11-2014, 01:24 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJCO23 View Post
It took me 6 months to find my 335i E90 manual as CPO but had to go to northern California and endes up with a new one. I'm now selling it and there seems to only be a few peeps looking for 6Spd manual with 4 doors. Shame on the market!

I know exactly what you're going through. In my experience, manuals are extremely difficult to find, and extremely difficult to sell. I was looking (all over the country) recently for an e90 6MT 335i xDrive with sport, and had only a handful to pick from. I ended up getting an f30 in the same configuration (2000 miles way) and had it shipped.


Hang in there. Your car is pretty rare, but so are MT buyers. It's gorgeous BTW.
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      03-11-2014, 01:33 PM   #71
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I've had 2 manual and 2 auto BMWs, in the following order:

X5 Step --> Z4 6MT --> 335 6MT --> 135 DCT

A member here posted my exact sentiments elsewhere on the forum: When driving a manual, I never wished it were an auto. When driving an auto, I often wish it were manual.

The DCT in my current 1er is a lot of fun, but I miss that 3rd pedal. Next car will undoubtedly be MT.
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      03-11-2014, 01:35 PM   #72
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I agree that there is not only a transmission and/or technology problem with BMW.
It is hard to believe their vision is not compromised by trends of other brands such as Audi, Mercedes Benz for example.
it is obvious that BMW is a business and they have to be competitive, but there is something that doesn't make sense to me.
The situation with the size of their cars, transmission, softer suspension, etc.. The fact that their cars are growing bigger each generation, sounds to me as a misinterpretation of their analysis in customer satisfaction and needs research.
SUVs are getting smaller, at least, versions of some of them, BMW reached to the X1 and Audi to the Q3. If people wanted bigger cars, just for the sake of it, Hummers would have created a lasting trend, and Beverly Hills would be infested with german tanks for the daily commute.
I make a pause here because I don't want anyone to take literal what I am about to say, it's just a perspective. A personal one, without any access to official marketing analysis or so.
What it seems to me, as a business analyst, and this is just a humble opinion, is that people in general, not only in automobiles, are looking for Status and Luxury, with "sportiness" being a consequence of a high status car in many cases. Commercial (not italian) bigger cars are often more expensive than smaller cars and for that, more exclusive (Status and Luxury).
If you ask directly to people what they want (in a marketing research) they will most of the time answer with the solution for their need, not their need specifically. So they will most likely demand for a bigger car. People with SUVs do not have issues with size, instead they have already perceived they need more attention to detail in design (Interior and Exterior), a smaller size SUV to fit better in the parking areas, a more sporty suspension and power to not get passed by smaller cars… etc.
If I were BMW I will reconsider again if people need bigger cars, or they need more Status and Luxury, because there are better ways to achieve these in a car.
What if a 2-Series sized car would have been a best BMW enthusiast seller if placed in the 5 series price range?. Introducing a new class that drives better than a 3/5 series, smaller and with the same level of attention to detail, manual standard/DCT optional, exclusivity and technology?

Last edited by Manbnda; 03-11-2014 at 01:58 PM..
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      03-11-2014, 01:36 PM   #73
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I personally think that YES in fact at least in North America especially in the US where let's be honest people are lazy and had been more used to the automatic transmission 6 speed manuals are harder and harder to get. However in South America and Europe they're still pretty popular. I love BMW and VW(I own one) for that reason it still gives us the option of manual transmission cars especially on the M models even the M6 GC and M5 have that option. Audi doesn't even give the option of an S3 MT, and MB with the CLA so yes in fact my next car would be the M235i manual transmission and if I had the money I would totally get a M6 GC MT or M5 MT I know theyre slower but as i tell my friends that have the VW GTI DSG (DCT) you can beat me in a race but I have more fun driving my car
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      03-11-2014, 01:39 PM   #74
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This is why when I found a 6 speed E39 540i, I had to buy it. It's hard enough to come across a stick 3, but a stick 5? Add to that a V8? BAM! No question about it
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      03-11-2014, 01:48 PM   #75
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I have driven manuals for 20 years up until I bought my car before my 2012 328i with a manual transmission, a 2008 Chevrolet Malibu with a 6 speed automatic. I would use the paddle shifters but it was not the same as a old fashioned manual. When I sought out to buy my next car, my BMW was on the lot and I missed the manual transmission so I made sure to buy it. I will always try to get a manual as long as I can.
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      03-11-2014, 01:52 PM   #76
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I used to get frustrated about the ststus symbol BMW driver but then I realized that few BMWs are enthusiast cars anymore...and I got over it....sort of.
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      03-11-2014, 01:52 PM   #77
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Well, I'm doing my part to save the manuals... And waiting six more weeks for my F32 to land for my trouble!

Still... Totally worth it. I'll stop driving with a clutch when my left foot falls off. I don't care about lap times as I've been on a track once in my life. All I care about is fun. Driving a stick is just more fun.
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      03-11-2014, 01:59 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///mawana View Post
Doubt he really wanted a manual! Those who want a manual will wait for it...
Exactly. The poster above's friend should've ordered. He didn't really want the 435 in a manual.
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      03-11-2014, 01:59 PM   #79
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Most of my cars were manual and last year I went from manual 2006 330i -> DCT 2013 M3
I like DCT but my next car will be manual M3/M4. I don't care how long I have to wait.
I also don't care how much faster DCT is over manual. DCT is definitely less fun for me.
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      03-11-2014, 02:03 PM   #80
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When I did euro delivery for my e82 in July the delivery guy was impressed that an American picked up a manual. He also commented that mine was one of the last of the non-turbo'd BMWs
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      03-11-2014, 02:06 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yay-Z View Post
With how good the DCT and 8 sp Autos are getting I see manuals dying really fast.
except they're not. if you read the post you'd have read that BMW sells roughly the same number of 3s now as they did in the 80s. It's just that BMW sells a shitton more cars now, so the % of manuals among all BMWs is much smaller.

I imagine if BMW dealers stocked more sticks sales would be even higher. BMW could help this by not making the auto a "no cost" option but instead add $1200 to the MSRP. Instead, BMW essentially charges manual drivers for the privilege.
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      03-11-2014, 02:10 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisBoston
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yay-Z View Post
With how good the DCT and 8 sp Autos are getting I see manuals dying really fast.
except they're not. if you read the post you'd have read that BMW sells roughly the same number of 3s now as they did in the 80s. It's just that BMW sells a shitton more cars now, so the % of manuals among all BMWs is much smaller.

I imagine if BMW dealers stocked more sticks sales would be even higher. BMW could help this by not making the auto a "no cost" option but instead add $1200 to the MSRP. Instead, BMW essentially charges manual drivers for the privilege.
If I had a business that was losing market share(take rate) I would say it was dying even if revenue was flat.
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      03-11-2014, 02:11 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnitBobby View Post
one of the main reasons my future car will be an M4 is because of the manual transmission option

the fact that mercedes or lexus do not offer manual transmission gives a BIG advantage to bmw
It's why I am with BMW. 😆
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      03-11-2014, 02:14 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmundy
I've had 2 manual and 2 auto BMWs, in the following order:

X5 Step --> Z4 6MT --> 335 6MT --> 135 DCT

A member here posted my exact sentiments elsewhere on the forum: When driving a manual, I never wished it were an auto. When driving an auto, I often wish it were manual.

The DCT in my current 1er is a lot of fun, but I miss that 3rd pedal. Next car will undoubtedly be MT.
Spot on!!!
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      03-11-2014, 02:21 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///mawana View Post
Doubt he really wanted a manual! Those who want a manual will wait for it...
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      03-11-2014, 02:26 PM   #86
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"...the current Three has a bigger interior than the brand's first 7 Series."

wow. I hadn't realized we'd come THAT far.
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      03-11-2014, 02:26 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
One thing that the sort of mention in the article is the lack of availability of manuals at the dealership. The dealerships have limited space and are about making money. Most of them don't even stock manual cars for this reason. It makes sense. I recently had a friend who wanted a 435i manual but when he got to the dealership and they had none and told him how long he would have to wait to either order one or for them to swap with another dealership for one, he just got the automatic.
This is so true and skews the statistics drastically. A better sample would be to compare how many customer special order cars were manual vs. auto. The dealers order what they think will move the quickest and manuals may not fit that bill in most markets. It is that way with a lot of auto makers, not just BMW. I remember back in the late 80's looking for a Toyota pickup (pre-Tundra) with a manual transmission and no one in a 5 state area had one, even though it was available that way from the factory. I stumbled across a Nissan with a 5 speed and bought it instead.

When I went to trade in my E39 M5 for an Infiniti FX45, I had to work to find a dealer that would even take it on trade because it had a manual transmission and was a sedan, even if it was the only transmission offered. At the time, Infiniti even offered manuals in their G35 sport sedans but rarely did they even get one on the lot.

Likewise, when I bought my 6 speed 6 series coupe, I got it a big discount because the dealer had it in inventory for over 9 months. Of course it brought less at trade in too, but not nearly as much as the initial discount (let alone interest saved).

When BMW brought out the DCT in the 46 M3, and the V10 M5/6's, as options, they began the dwindling of the purist M car. Before that, a manual transmission belonged in a sports sedan, coupe or convertible, not so much in a luxury sedan or even SUV (that is of course debatable but a losing argument nonetheless). But now, with DCT, they proposed, and successfully I might add, that autos belong in them just as much as manuals. The manual in those M's weren't really that great either. Now it has evolved into the current state of affairs where a manual is rare find if even offered (911 GT3 and turbo variants, Ferraris, F-Types, etc.). In fact Porsche states that 80% of 911 sales are PDKs. Again, it goes back to what dealers are ordering and that is additional profit as well as more potential buyers for their very expensive offerings.

Going back to the original quote, it is also true about colors. When my wife and I ordered our F30 335 sedan, we had no choice because we wanted Imperial Blue with specific options. We could have had our choice of cars from our choice of dealers equipped exactly like we wanted in either 328 or 335 versions, as long as it was black. I asked the general sales manager when he was trying to locate a car for us why there were so many black cars available and he said it was because they sold quicker than any other color. So I asked him if it was because that's the color people wanted or if it was because it was what was available. He didn't know.

We ended up with the sport auto tranny because it is my wife's dd, and while she is very facile with a stick, she decided she liked the 8 speed well enough and it got better fuel economy. It's a fine transmission and she doesn't drive with the same "enthusiasm" that I do anyway.

Until my knee doesn't bend anymore, or I get a 991 GT3 , I'll always prefer a manual. In fact, I'll be up for a new car in a couple of years and the cars I'm considering are M2, M4, Boxster S and C-7 Z-06 manual variants. The new F-Type R could be option but I'd have to consider it like the GT3 because if it's such a great car it is worth not having a manual.
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Last edited by speeddeacon; 03-11-2014 at 03:18 PM..
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      03-11-2014, 02:34 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///mawana View Post
Doubt he really wanted a manual! Those who want a manual will wait for it...

Exactly Those who get it, get it and those who don't drive automatics.

Anyone can drive any automatic, and whether its right or wrong anytime I see a sports car with an auto box in it (paddle shift or not, super car or not) I lose respect for that person as a driver. One of the main reasons I continue to be so interested in BMW's product is that they strive to keep the driver engaged in the driving experience and offer the option for them to choose MT. If they take that choice away they will lose my business.
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