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      01-15-2017, 10:25 AM   #89
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This^ plus the cost for all that infrastructure. Add that on top of the cost of the cars. Either the company pays for it and the car price goes up or theres a fee to offset the cost of getting the equipment, the electricity, the rent for the land, etc and don't forget the government will tax it just like they do gasoline.
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      01-15-2017, 03:19 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
Sad day - sound of the car is one of the main features for performance cars.

I guess we will have fake exhausts with exterior speakers in 10-20years.
Have you ever heard(in person) a La Ferrari, P1, 918, or by chance the new Panamera Turbo S? These 'hybrid' hyper-powertrains are lightyears better/cooler/stronger/more visceral than anything done in the ancient internal-combustion days.

Call me crazy...whatever. I've had and will always have dope petrol burning machines, but the future is bright as @#$% with these hybrid sports/super/hyper cars coming to light. The day that an M3 has infinitely variable AWD and an electric motor to turn the front wheels and torque-fill, and, by the way, do 0-60 in under 3 seconds easily, will be a very very happy day indeed.
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      01-15-2017, 04:48 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by F82FTW View Post
Have you ever heard(in person) a La Ferrari, P1, 918, or by chance the new Panamera Turbo S? These 'hybrid' hyper-powertrains are lightyears better/cooler/stronger/more visceral than anything done in the ancient internal-combustion days.

Call me crazy...whatever. I've had and will always have dope petrol burning machines, but the future is bright as @#$% with these hybrid sports/super/hyper cars coming to light. The day that an M3 has infinitely variable AWD and an electric motor to turn the front wheels and torque-fill, and, by the way, do 0-60 in under 3 seconds easily, will be a very very happy day indeed.
These cars cost over $1MM and they all have a V8 or a V12 in Ferrari.

Im referring to full EV like the Bolt or Tesla. Thats what BMW plans to do for ///M cars in future.

I could care less about AWD or 0-60 in less than 3sec.
There will always be faster cars, its not the speed of the car but the way a car makes you feel driving it.
The great BMW M cars were never the fastest, that was always AMG, but they were always the more fun to drive.
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      01-15-2017, 04:55 PM   #92
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When there are a lot of electric cars charging stations will require a lot of space. It takes about 5 minutes to pump gasoline. Assuming a 30 minute charging time 6 times as many parking spots are required. That costs. There will be government fees and taxes to make up for the lost gas tax revenue. If you ask me, it's a bleak future for driving.
Most people dont want to hear this lol.
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      01-15-2017, 05:09 PM   #93
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These cars cost over $1MM and they all have a V8 or a V12 in Ferrari.

Im referring to full EV like the Bolt or Tesla. Thats what BMW plans to do for ///M cars in future.

I could care less about AWD or 0-60 in less than 3sec.
There will always be faster cars, its not the speed of the car but the way a car makes you feel driving it.
The great BMW M cars were never the fastest, that was always AMG, but they were always the more fun to drive.
This would be a sad worst case scenario. Idk if I'd even get the ic version if offered just because its so closely related to the ev one.
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      01-15-2017, 08:01 PM   #94
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Great! I love my i3, we just bought a second one. Never going back to gasoline!

----

Some of these responses are hilarious. As if gas stations were all built in a single day, did not cost anything to build, opened all on the same day, and don't take up any space.
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      01-15-2017, 08:26 PM   #95
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Um the gas station comment is murky at best. What do you mean? I mean the infrastructure for supercharge stations doesn't exist and will cost a ton. Gas station infrastructure does exist and is paid for.
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      01-15-2017, 08:27 PM   #96
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There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
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      01-15-2017, 08:30 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
And...
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      01-15-2017, 08:36 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
And...
I didn't want to state the obvious, but you'll save time and money if you travel a lot
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      01-15-2017, 09:49 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Um the gas station comment is murky at best. What do you mean? I mean the infrastructure for supercharge stations doesn't exist and will cost a ton. Gas station infrastructure does exist and is paid for.
Exactly. Where is all that electricity going to come from?
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      01-16-2017, 12:29 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
There is even more funny that people think EV charging will stay at the same level
Tesla is probably near upgrading Superchargers to 400kw+. This will make 40min charge into 10 minutes.
But if this becomes even more powerful (rumor has it), than it will drop the charging time to ICE fill up equivalent.
The bigger question is infrastructure? Will there be a charging station at every corner like gas stations? What is the plan to deal with the increased number of electric cars. You'll have just about every car brand selling electric cars soon. Interesting times.
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      01-16-2017, 05:33 AM   #101
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The problem with gas is that you need to drive for a gas station and in addition, spend the time to fill it up. In the future electric cars can be charged by wireless induction and you won't need to bother about it. My parking lot will charge my car overnight without myself doing anything. The ranges will be very long by the time you can buy your first fully electric M-car and some of the roads will be able to fill up the charge.

I just saw a test mule of the fully electric Porsche Mission E that will be launched in a couple of years. Already now, it can be charged to 80% in only 15 minutes and I can see the electric charging stations popping up for those who drive long distances.

In the mean time the next M3 will have the electric turbocharger which will elevate the M-performance a lot. The performance segment will love it.
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      01-16-2017, 09:29 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
I didn't want to state the obvious, but you'll save time and money if you travel a lot
How??? I travel 50k a year. But the limuted range and long charge time means i couldn't use an ev if I wanted to. I'd drive to my destination and would be stuck overnight instead of being able to drive home. EVs atm are only suited for driving around town at the moment from a practicality stand point.
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      01-16-2017, 09:31 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
The problem with gas is that you need to drive for a gas station and in addition, spend the time to fill it up. In the future electric cars can be charged by wireless induction and you won't need to bother about it. My parking lot will charge my car overnight without myself doing anything. The ranges will be very long by the time you can buy your first fully electric M-car and some of the roads will be able to fill up the charge.

I just saw a test mule of the fully electric Porsche Mission E that will be launched in a couple of years. Already now, it can be charged to 80% in only 15 minutes and I can see the electric charging stations popping up for those who drive long distances.

In the mean time the next M3 will have the electric turbocharger which will elevate the M-performance a lot. The performance segment will love it.
They said flying cars would be here 50 yrs ago also. I've even seen several companies set to go into production with them. And that was 10 and 20 yrs ago. I'm not bashing them. I'm just amazed everyone is so sure that this tech, unlike the last 5 that said exactly the same thing, and that needs technological advances that nobody knows if they are possible for a decade or more to even be practical, and unlike the previous 5 also requires new infrastructure to work, is such a certainty. Once they build charge stations everywhere, it charges in 3 min, the motors don't overheat after a few pulls, the range is 400+ miles, it performs as well or better than a current IC, costs similar, is as reliable, has an equivalent lifespan, and doesn't create massive mining and toxic waste to create, let me know.

Last edited by Fundguy1; 01-16-2017 at 09:40 AM..
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      01-16-2017, 11:05 AM   #104
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Keep your cars now everyone! True sports cars will be worth some money in the long run
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      01-16-2017, 01:25 PM   #105
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How so? It only takes minutes for a full charge with Tesla's supercharger. Many people have done coast to coast trips. I think 400mi+ range cars are gonna the be the norm in 10yrs at the premium end.

I would think BMW and/or 3rd parties will have something similar in the future.
In Germany though Teslas suck. I have never been overtaken by one, they stay in the rightmost lane behind the trucks at 120kph. Because beyond that the battery drowns in an instant and they won't make it to the next supercharger. Where my M4 gives me a range of roughly 400km even when I press it. On a 400km (240 miles) drive you can safe two hour compared to a Tesla. I know that because I have done 450km to Berlin in about 2h30m including a stop at a petrol station

But I must admit that this is a very limited point of view. Also a 430d will beat the M4 in that challenge because it won't need to fill up and will do 200 just as well.
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      01-16-2017, 01:42 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
This^ plus the cost for all that infrastructure. Add that on top of the cost of the cars. Either the company pays for it and the car price goes up or theres a fee to offset the cost of getting the equipment, the electricity, the rent for the land, etc and don't forget the government will tax it just like they do gasoline.
Worse than that, they now want to tax vehicles per mile driven instead of taxing the fuel at the appropriate rate
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      01-16-2017, 01:46 PM   #107
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I think it is important to note that when the whole gas engine concept came into place people were saying the same thing we are saying now about electrics.

"Where are we gonna store the gasoline, stations, where are we gonna park all the cars" and so on and so on. Some I am sure were saying "I'm just gonna keep my horse rather than get the car"

Guys it's evolvement and it needs to happen and it will happen. Charging times will be quick and charging network will be established to suit everyone. Are we not seeing what we are capable of as human beings.

I will leave this quote here for you guys:

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said ‘faster horses.’" ~Henry Ford
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      01-16-2017, 01:49 PM   #108
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Of course this is where cars will end up. Fossil fuels will be taxed or legislated out of the hands of the common man leaving us with nought but electric to get our fill.

Hell with ASD, would your average muppet realise they were driving an all electric car if the sound of an inline six was being piped into the cabin? Probably not!
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      01-16-2017, 01:49 PM   #109
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I could see where performance could be gained from a vehicle that relies primarily on electric motors for propulsion and a conventional fuel engine to provide all/part of the electricity.....this is essentially the same model used by diesel electric locomotives......massive power capabilities are possible and its not exactly immature/untested technology

Cost is pretty high and weight of batteries if that functionality is to be added is not insignificant

Personally I prefer the simplicity of existing internal combustion engines/vehicles
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      01-16-2017, 01:52 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnh View Post
I could see where performance could be gained from a vehicle that relies primarily on electric motors for propulsion and a conventional fuel engine to provide all/part of the electricity.....this is essentially the same model used by diesel electric locomotives......massive power capabilities are possible and its not exactly immature/untested technology

Cost is pretty high and weight of batteries if that functionality is to be added is not insignificant

Personally I prefer the simplicity of existing internal combustion engines/vehicles
Electric motors are even simpler than combustion engines, less moving parts. Not to mention instant torque. Just a flat solid torque curve that a big block V8 would be envious of.

The big sticking point is as you already point out battery density, and of course charge speed.

Until you can fit 500 miles worth of batteries into the space a fuel tank takes up, and charge that battery in less than 5 minutes the uptake simply won't be there.
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