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      02-05-2016, 07:55 PM   #89
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BMW can't even make a water pump last 50k miles, but now they want to go hybrid with the ///M line bringing even more complexity to the mix.

Forget that.
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      02-05-2016, 08:01 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Likely the G90 (F90?) M5.



You're describing a M-version of the ActiveHybrid3. I think TESLA has a ways to go before the extra weight of the battery pack doesn't impact the overall weight of a traditionally powered car.
Telsa is Gen 1 EV. Unless they innovate their chassis or advance battery tech way further than what is capable today, they will never beat BMW at what BMW does best, which is build cars.

I predict that eventually all M cars will share the CF chassis technology that was developed for the i series cars. Its inevitable. The F8X chassis is already using plenty of CF to reduce weight. Wait until they build the whole chassis out of CF and see how ridiculous an M3 will do 0-60 with a ICE and EV boost. We are talking supercar speeds IMO at that point. BMW is the leader in CF technology. I've read they are the envy of the industry. Those quick to jump ship, good riddance! lol
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      02-05-2016, 09:00 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy
So in other words, today's Tesla P85D is the BMW M of the future? Get with the times BMW.
Did you even read the article?

?We?ve found that our customers are not interested in driving without the combustion engine,? he said. ?They want to know if these changes will help with performance.?

No one wants a full electric car. In the near future it will be hybrid.
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      02-05-2016, 09:13 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twixboy View Post
So in other words, today's Tesla P85D is the BMW M of the future? Get with the times BMW.
Tesla is electric and not a hybrid. BMW i8, McLaren P1, Porsche 918, and the new Acura NSX but at lower price points. Trickle down technology.
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      02-05-2016, 09:33 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dailym3 View Post
yeah, they'll be faster....at what cost? These cars are plenty fast without having to resort to batteries with all of their additional weight, cost, and complexity. I'm just not interested in $150k M3/4's. If they want to do a one-off like the GTS, to showcase their technology and "green" capabilities that's one thing. The day the standard car goes that way though they will lose me, and I suspect many other customers.
Well......I'll bet that not too long ago some blokes said that "if BMW M cars go by way of turbo and lose their all-motor "spirit", they'll lose me". The most difficult thing about change isn't the actual change itself, it's the build up to it and the anticipation of the new.

I really still don't think, however, that we will find Jimmy Hoffa.
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      02-05-2016, 09:44 PM   #94
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With a CAFE target of 55 miles per gallon, Hybrids are the future.
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TRAITOR.
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      02-05-2016, 10:13 PM   #95
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Now all we need is i-Cars becoming more ///M...
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      02-05-2016, 11:17 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Not maybe... not kind of... this will happen.

And no one should be surprised.
And no one should be disappointed either. 918, LaFerrari, P1, NSX, i8 - the technology is already there to make hybrids have much higher performance than pure combustion engines- and without being heavier than current pure internal combustion powered performance cars - it is just a matter of time until that technology trickles down (pun intended) to the price point of where more "mainstream" performance cars are currently priced - like the F8x. Look at how positive of reviews the i8 has already received from a driving dynamics perspective without even being an M car (and yes - it weighs less than an M3/M4 too). It is inevitable that the price of performance-oriented hybrids will keep coming down. I believe a hybrid M4/M3 one or two generations out will be even more fun that the current model (which I still cannot get enough drives in)!!!
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      02-05-2016, 11:20 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC3 View Post
Well......I'll bet that not too long ago some blokes said that "if BMW M cars go by way of turbo and lose their all-motor "spirit", they'll lose me". The most difficult thing about change isn't the actual change itself, it's the build up to it and the anticipation of the new.

I really still don't think, however, that we will find Jimmy Hoffa.
Don't worry - I think Geraldo Rivera is close to finding him...
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      02-06-2016, 12:36 AM   #98
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I wonder if this is in response to the Acura NSX, twin-turbo V-6 + three electric motors, "north of 550hp".
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      02-06-2016, 01:10 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
If you're such a purist, then why are you driving an M car with turbos and EPS? Things change, just saying.
....pretty dumb comment. Who said I was a purist? I prefer petrol motors. Same reason I'd never buy a diesel M...
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      02-06-2016, 01:37 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC3 View Post
Well......I'll bet that not too long ago some blokes said that "if BMW M cars go by way of turbo and lose their all-motor "spirit", they'll lose me". The most difficult thing about change isn't the actual change itself, it's the build up to it and the anticipation of the new.

I really still don't think, however, that we will find Jimmy Hoffa.
You are right, people are nervous most while anticipating. But I don't see a lot of people complain anymore, and that is because the turbo engines BMW makes are easily the best in the business in my opinion. Sure, there is less sound than I the competitor turbo cars, but after driving the new Carrera S with the Turbos, the difference is massive. The throttle of the S63 responds a lot crispier than the Carrera, and for some reason, even though the Carrera is loud, the sound is disappointing to me, as it is the same tune played over and over and over again, as if it is pumped through the speakers, which it isn't. The AMG 4.0 biturbo is very good and sounds the best out of the turbo V8 ive seen/driven, the throttle response and power delivery simply doesn't match the S63, and the S55 actually, and that is when I can say that in my opinion, I'm certain that BMW can build The best engines. They might not build the best chassis anymore (even though I hope CLAR will be the top of the league!), but BMW have still got it with their engines!
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      02-06-2016, 01:46 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattar
Like the Porsche 918!
And a price tag to match
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      02-06-2016, 03:07 AM   #102
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It was bound to happen...

[QUOTE=cc3;19333255]http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/942...-in-the-future

BMW admits that hybrid versions of M cars like the M3, M4 and M5 are inevitable and electric assistance will make them even faster

The future of BMW’s high-performance M cars is hybrid, according to the brand’s vice-president for engineering, Dirk Hacker.

Everyone who knows anything about engineering trends knew this was bound to happen. What surprises me is the stubbornness to admit that others took what the i8 really started to higher level.

Either way, I am glad t hear it is on the way and with the tech they have and the talent they employ, good things should happen.

The million $ question is; when?
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      02-06-2016, 03:11 AM   #103
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Zuper!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Inevitable. Which is why BMW are developing Power eDrive.
When will we see it?
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      02-06-2016, 03:15 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
It's only inevitable if consumers choose to purchase them. No sales = No bueno.
Well in Europe in some countries M5,X5M and X6M are classified in a higher tax bracket enter the reason for the M Performance M50d models. Where they offer performance but little to none tax penalty. Its the reason why the M Performance cars are extremely popular in Europe and will be introduced on further model lines.
Such as the next X3 and X4 which for the first time will feature an M version and the X3 will get its first M Performance model.
An M550d and and an M550e can co-exist. An M550e can be offered in markets like North America whereas the M550d can't.
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      02-06-2016, 04:02 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dailym3 View Post
yeah, they'll be faster....at what cost? These cars are plenty fast without having to resort to batteries with all of their additional weight, cost, and complexity. I'm just not interested in $150k M3/4's. If they want to do a one-off like the GTS, to showcase their technology and "green" capabilities that's one thing. The day the standard car goes that way though they will lose me, and I suspect many other customers.
Well......I'll bet that not too long ago some blokes said that "if BMW M cars go by way of turbo and lose their all-motor "spirit", they'll lose me". The most difficult thing about change isn't the actual change itself, it's the build up to it and the anticipation of the new.

I really still don't think, however, that we will find Jimmy Hoffa.
It's funny. Turbo brought me to the BMW family. I came from a G35 and a R32 GTR before that. I really missed having a twin turbo inline 6 with a manual transmission. Don't regret it at all. Glad to be here. Now if the M had front wheel assist like the GTR's it would be perfect, lol.
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      02-06-2016, 05:31 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
It's only inevitable if consumers choose to purchase them. No sales = No bueno.
Well in Europe in some countries M5,X5M and X6M are classified in a higher tax bracket enter the reason for the M Performance M50d models. Where they offer performance but little to none tax penalty. Its the reason why the M Performance cars are extremely popular in Europe and will be introduced on further model lines.
Such as the next X3 and X4 which for the first time will feature an M version and the X3 will get its first M Performance model.
An M550d and and an M550e can co-exist. An M550e can be offered in markets like North America whereas the M550d can't.
Yes agree good points although Governments have a habit of then adjusting their tax bands so that their overall tax take doesn't fall.

Biggest concern I have is the extra weight.

Like the idea of a proper M X3 especially as I am currently looking at the Macan and F Pace as I feel my recently acquired 3.0d X3 is a little disappointing. BMW badly need to get the new model to market.
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      02-06-2016, 06:37 AM   #107
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Everyone, go out to your garages right now and hug your ///M cars really tight. Tell them I love you, every night you before you go to bed. Spend quality time with them as often as you can. Love them for their faults. Be the prick-BMW owner they expect you to be. Be in their lives. Buy them mods. Take them to the race track on weekends. Don't ever take their gas combustion, turbo qualities for granted.


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      02-06-2016, 07:38 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
An M550d and and an M550e can co-exist. An M550e can be offered in markets like North America whereas the M550d can't.
Why is that? Bmw can't make an emission compliant 550d? Are we looking at E-awd with future m-cars or for a rwd power boost?
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      02-06-2016, 08:27 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Why is that? Bmw can't make an emission compliant 550d? Are we looking at E-awd with future m-cars or for a rwd power boost?
Although they are committed to diesel, sales have dropped thanks to VAGs little deceptive stunt. With the consensus if one is doing it they all are doing it.
It would not be worth a handful of sales to develop a 550d for the US Market.
The 740eDrive takes the place of the Diesel 7er in North America now.
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      02-06-2016, 09:08 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
With a CAFE target of 55 miles per gallon, Hybrids are the future.
Yes... SLOW hybrids are the future.
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