[///AVM]

Has anyone run Apex EC-7 wheels with Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 staggered at 245/265?

///AVM

[bri1042]

My EC-7's are 10" and 10.5". I think 265's would be stretched on the 10.5's but would work but I don't know that 245's work well on 10's.

[JCZ5]

I just reread Apex's wheel fitment guide. It seems if we want 19s, the tires cannot be in stock specification. Unless we go for ARC-8 design.

Staggered Setups
Maintains stock-like handling characteristics, tires can only be rotated left to right. Maximizes both front and rear tire width.

Front: 18x9 ET30 or ET31 with 245/40-18 tires
Rear: 18x10” ET33 with 275/35-18 tires
Won't fit M2 Competition with 2NH brake package.
Available in EC-7 or SM-10 design only.
Direct fit.
Popular fitment.
255/35-18 front tires can also be used as a direct fit.

Front: 19x9.5" ET28 with 265/30-19 tires
Rear: 19x10.5" ET45 with 295/30-19 tires
M2C recommended fitment.
Available in EC-7 design only.
5mm front spacers or larger may be required with certain aftermarket suspensions, see below.
Front negative camber recommended if using aggressive tire compounds.

Front: 19x8.5" ET35 with 245/35-19 tires
Rear: 19x9.5" ET33 with 265/35-19 tires
Available in ARC-8 design only.
Front 12mm spacers recommended for flush fitment.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by bri1042

My EC-7's are 10" and 10.5". I think 265's would be stretched on the 10.5's but would work but I don't know that 245's work well on 10's.

Thank you Bri

I'm wondering if 19x9.5 and 19x10 would accommodate 245/265 Alpin PA4 set-up?

I did contact Apex and they are pretty adamant about a couple things:

1. The EC-7 was designed to run summer performance tires

2. They recommend SM-10 for performance winter tire like the Alpin PA4

3. As with pretty much everyone, they do not recommend anything other than square winter tire set-up. I understand the square set-up is best for snow, however, I'm not concerned about snow. I'm more interested in rubber suited for the cold.

My sense is that Apex is obligated to provide the 'safest' feedback. On my end, I want cold weather rubber and to retain the stock tire profile/staggered aesthetic.

Probably related to liability, as well as your comments, I cannot get Apex to confirm/recommend a EC-7 with staggered Alpin PA4 set-up.

Maybe it is a simple matter of fact that there in no viable EC-7 with staggered (245/265) Alpin PA4 combination? Before writing off the possibility I just wanted to check with the forum.

///AVM

[///AVM]

JC

I looked at Apex website and spoke to them directly. Feedback obtained summarized in my above post.

What I'm really trying to determine is whether the Apex response is liability-related, as it seems (1) square set-up is best for driving in snow and (2) wider tires are also suboptimal for driving in snow or cold/wet conditions?

Or, is there truly a fitment issue when it comes to EC-7 with Alpin PA4 combination?

///AVM

[bri1042]

I've been running 245's square Alpin's in the winter on 641's. Considering the near-zero snow and moderate temps during the last two winters in Portland, I'm seriously considering doing something else this year. Perhaps putting DWS 06's on my 788's? Changing out the rears on the 641's to wider tires. Not sure. Running Alpin's that narrow on the rear of the car hasn't provided a very positive experience during the "winter" months over the last couple years.

[Montaver]

You should consider 255/275 Michelin AS3+ or I believe the AS4 is out. Phenomenal tire, I ran the AS3+ on my E90 M3. Tons of grip, audible feedback, lower limits than a PSS but nothing you really notice consistently on the street.

[bri1042]

I ran the AS3+ on my 340 during the rainy months. I've been thinking the DWS06 to try it's main competitor. Sorry for the thread hijack, AVM.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I ran the AS3+ on my 340 during the rainy months. I've been thinking the DWS06 to try it's main competitor. Sorry for the thread hijack, AVM.

No worries Bri . . . it is all about sharing knowledge and insights.

In truth, I would prefer 255/275 set and I do not believe the Alpin PA4 comes in 275. So, nice to know there are winter tires options that others have tried and liked.

Still, what I really want to know is not so much which tires are the best for winter (COLD) weather . . . rather, if anyone has used the EC-7 for winter tire (Alpin PA, or otherwise) with success?

By 'success,' I mean good/safe fitment and similarly good/safe performance.

///AVM

[///AVM]

If I were to run one set of tires all year around (all season tires) I would go with Michelin AS4. However, I am going to swap out wheels/tires for warm and cold months, so I am looking to stick with Alpin PA4 for colder months.

With regard to tire sizes, I would ideally go with 255/275 set-up. I have to stick with 245/265 because the 275 option does not exist with Alpin PA4 (nor the recently released AS4).

///AVM

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

If I were to run one set of tires all year around (all season tires) I would go with Michelin AS4. However, I am going to swap out wheels/tires for warm and cold months, so I am looking to stick with Alpin PA4 for colder months.

With regard to tire sizes, I would ideally go with 255/275 set-up. I have to stick with 245/265 because the 275 option does not exist with Alpin PA4 (nor the recently released AS4).

///AVM

If you don't need snow capability, I believe the AS4 or the Continental DWS06 will give you a little better dry performance than the PA4. Maybe at sub-zero temperatures the PA4 could be better, but I am pretty sure the high performance all-seasons remain above their Tg and will perform a little better if it's just around freezing. It will also give you the freedom to leave them on a bit longer at the start and end of the seasons.

This is based on my experience with PA3, Dunlop Winter Sport 3D, and Bridgestone LM25 and LM001 vs all seasons and summer on various cars. It might not hold 100% true for PA4 and AS4.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by chris719

If you don't need snow capability, I believe the AS4 or the Continental DWS06 will give you a little better dry performance than the PA4. Maybe at sub-zero temperatures the PA4 could be better, but I am pretty sure the high performance all-seasons remain above their Tg and will perform a little better if it's just around freezing. It will also give you the freedom to leave them on a bit longer at the start and end of the seasons. . .

Chris

So, living in North Carolina there are days in the heart of the 'winter' when the temps dropped below 50 degrees. On those days the summer performance tires (PSS and PS4S) become rock hard and 'slippery.' I could take precaution and remain safe, and the cold temps seemed few and far between. In short, no need to utilize winter or all-season tires.

I am now back up in a northern climate for, at least, a couple months - possibly through winter. Snow is never the issue it was, perhaps, in times passed. Does not seem to snow that much anymore and, when there is a big snowfall, the roads tend to be cleared in short order. What remains a significant factor is the cold, as temperatures tend to remain below freezing throughout the winter.

Given COLD is a real and primary concern, I am concerned the AS4 will suffer significant degradation (e.g., hardening) with temperatures below freezing . . . whereas the Alpin PA4 will not.

///AVM

[///AVM]

So, anyone run EC-7 with Alpin PA4 (245/265) set-up?

If not, I guess I would then ask if anyone has run EC-7 with any staggered winter/all-season performance tire in a cold weather climate (245/265 or 255/275)? Not interested in square set-up or going bigger than 255 front or 275 rear.

///AVM

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Given COLD is a real and primary concern, I am concerned the AS4 will suffer significant degradation (e.g., hardening) with temperatures below freezing . . . whereas the Alpin PA4 will not.

///AVM

They won't. The tire is advertised with "Helio+" and good snow performance, so I really doubt their glass transition temperature is high like a summer tire.

At least, I don't think they will. You could always ask Michelin and see what they say.