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      04-22-2019, 07:57 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
It'll be fun to regroup, once released, to see how these lists play out.
Even better: a group picture on a drive in the twisties with the new cars, to filter out the 0 km $ markup 'coin-flippers'.
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      04-22-2019, 08:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Yep - they've got a beautiful LRG M3 CS at my dealer, and it was just under 20K off the last time I was there...I am sure the M2C is going to be pricey - my guess has been 80-85K, which is probably too much for what we are going to get.
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      04-22-2019, 09:50 PM   #25
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      04-22-2019, 09:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Another part of buying an M2 CS that scares me is the depreciation. Why buy an overpriced car that drops a lot in depreciation where facts/history shows that Cayman GT4 cars hold value? I know depreciation is not the end all, be all, but you want the car to hold its value when it comes time to trade in for the next car.
Totally understand what you're saying - but I guess it only matters if you plan to keep the car for a relatively short period of time. If I get the CS (or the Comp), I will be buying for a more long term period anyway because the leasing figures are so poor on the M2.

So I wouldn't personally worry about it too much - these cars aren't in the same league as the GT4 anyway, so even if the price of admission is relatively close, it's hard to compare them from the depreciation perspective.

I had a 981CS and loved it...a GT4 with a real GT engine and PDK? That's about the best car I can imagine having.
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      04-23-2019, 05:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
When a dealer tells you "Your name is X on the list" it's just their way of physiologically getting you to commit to a vehicle, so when have do get one available to sell you, you feel the need to reciprocate the "favor" and succumb to the prestige of being the choose one by purchasing the vehicle at sticker or possible a markup.

How do you know the dealer is going to abide by this imaginary list and not sell the vehicle to the highest bidder?

Why makes your money greener than the next guy?

Don't buy into the BS; which I know it is for a fact from friends in the business. The first and only person the list is Benjamin Franklin and all his dead compadres.

Money talks and BS wins NASCAR races..
Correct. Here in the UK deposits are all refundable too so it's a very meaningless list.
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      04-23-2019, 06:19 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
When a dealer tells you "Your name is X on the list" it's just their way of physiologically getting you to commit to a vehicle, so when have do get one available to sell you, you feel the need to reciprocate the "favor" and succumb to the privilege of being the chosen one by purchasing the vehicle at sticker or possible a markup.

How do you know the dealer is going to abide by this imaginary list and not sell the vehicle to the highest bidder?

Why makes your money greener than the next guy?

Don't buy into the BS; which I know it is for a fact from friends in the business. The first and only person the list is Benjamin Franklin and all his dead compadres.

Money talks and BS wins NASCAR races..
In my case with the M2C, I wasn't just being told I was number whatever on a "list." I entered into a written contract with the dealership to obtain a specific allocation - in my case the 3rd allocation the dealership was going to obtain from BMWNA. It was to be at MSRP and with a refundable $1k deposit until such time as the actual allocation entered that state in which the specifics of the build could not be changed. It was signed by the sales manager and myself.

I ended up finding the exact M2C we planned to order, available at another dealer back in September, so I received my deposit back.

Some dealerships are *very* specific on how these allocations are reserved, and will provide you with a written contractual agreement on the exact allocation number. You can then negotiate additional terms into the document such as if a lower numbered allocation is given up, your allocation is automatically moved forward (which was the case with my agreement). Many dealers want to leave that part flexible but will contact if you someone ahead of you drops theirs.
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      04-23-2019, 06:27 AM   #29
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I will not be that guy trading in my new M2C for the CS just bc I have to have the latest greatest. Mark my words the CS properly equipped will be at least $80k. 445 hp for $80k is a bit high in today’s performance car market. What makes the M2C a special and sought after car is bc what you get for $60k
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      04-23-2019, 06:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
When a dealer tells you "Your name is X on the list" it's just their way of physiologically getting you to commit to a vehicle, so when have do get one available to sell you, you feel the need to reciprocate the "favor" and succumb to the privilege of being the chosen one by purchasing the vehicle at sticker or possible a markup.

How do you know the dealer is going to abide by this imaginary list and not sell the vehicle to the highest bidder?

Why makes your money greener than the next guy?

Don't buy into the BS; which I know it is for a fact from friends in the business. The first and only person the list is Benjamin Franklin and all his dead compadres.

Money talks and BS wins NASCAR races..
In my case with the M2C, I wasn't just being told I was number whatever on a "list." I entered into a written contract with the dealership to obtain a specific allocation - in my case the 3rd allocation the dealership was going to obtain from BMWNA. It was to be at MSRP and with a refundable $1k deposit until such time as the actual allocation entered that state in which the specifics of the build could not be changed. It was signed by the sales manager and myself.

I ended up finding the exact M2C we planned to order, available at another dealer back in September, so I received my deposit back.

Some dealerships are *very* specific on how these allocations are reserved, and will provide you with a written contractual agreement on the exact allocation number. You can then negotiate additional terms into the document such as if a lower numbered allocation is given up, your allocation is automatically moved forward (which was the case with my agreement). Many dealers want to leave that part flexible but will contact if you someone ahead of you drops theirs.
How to enter into a "contract" and then renege on it? The very essence of a contract is it's a binding agreement between two parties.

Your situation sounds more like "the list" when they take your deposit, write an invoice for your down payment, then when they get that "third" allocation available or a vehicle to sell you, you get that call to come in and take your money.

If you don't have an actual allocation number, anything goes and they can sell the vehicle to whomever they want and feed you whatever nonsense to string you along until they have a car to sell you.

This might come as a surprise to you but auto dealership employees are not the most reputable bunch..
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      04-23-2019, 07:33 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
How to enter into a "contract" and then renege on it? The very essence of a contract is it's a binding agreement between two parties.

Your situation sounds more like "the list" when they take your deposit, write an invoice for your down payment, then when they get that "third" allocation available or a vehicle to sell you, you get that call to come in and take your money.

If you don't have an actual allocation number, anything goes and they can sell the vehicle to whomever they want and feed you whatever nonsense to string you along until they have a car to sell you.

This might come as a surprise to you but auto dealership employees are not the most reputable bunch..
The contact specified all the terms including it was at any point able to be broken by the buyer (me) with a full refund. Pretty basic wording. Could they fork me over, perhaps. Since I've been doing business with this dealer since 1979 and know many of the folks there, it's probably unlikely.

Considering I've been buying and selling cars for over 40 years, I've been around the block a couple of times and well know, perhaps more than I care to think, about the industry.
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      04-23-2019, 07:45 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
How to enter into a "contract" and then renege on it? The very essence of a contract is it's a binding agreement between two parties.

Your situation sounds more like "the list" when they take your deposit, write an invoice for your down payment, then when they get that "third" allocation available or a vehicle to sell you, you get that call to come in and take your money.

If you don't have an actual allocation number, anything goes and they can sell the vehicle to whomever they want and feed you whatever nonsense to string you along until they have a car to sell you.

This might come as a surprise to you but auto dealership employees are not the most reputable bunch..
The contact specified all the terms including it was at any point able to be broken by the buyer (me) with a full refund. Pretty basic wording. Could they fork me over, perhaps. Since I've been doing business with this dealer since 1979 and know many of the folks there, it's probably unlikely.

Considering I've been buying and selling cars for over 40 years, I've been around the block a couple of times and well know, perhaps more than I care to think, about the industry.
Well, If you have a personal relationship or some sort or accumulated goodwill with a dealership; your situation might vary from a typical one-off buyer. So I could see them possible pulling some strings to get you what you want.

I still believe money talks and I know people in sales who would stab their own mother in the back for the paper.

Color me skeptical but I wouldn't trust anything a dealer tells me unless I have an allocation number so I could track the vehicle's build status through a third-party portal. Anything thing else is just expendable words
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      04-23-2019, 11:02 AM   #33
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I was on the list for the first M2C allocation from the dealership that I had purchased my last car from. It was secured with $1000 charged to my credit card even before its official announcement. It was ED so I wanted it to be delivered in time for Oktoberfest. I got a call from them about 3 weeks after it was in the press. "I'm so sorry there's been a mix-up. You will be #2 on the list." I was able to get info from another SA that they had given the first allocation to a local through the "good ole boy" system. He didn't even give a deposit. I went ballistic. They ended up finding me an allocation but I know it was not #1. I had an insider at BMW NA check their allocations. Through the BMW ED rep at NA they moved up my allocation by 2 months so I could do my Oktoberfest ED. The moral to the story is that you can't trust them.
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      04-23-2019, 11:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
When a dealer tells you "Your name is X on the list" it's just their way of physiologically getting you to commit to a vehicle, so when have do get one available to sell you, you feel the need to reciprocate the "favor" and succumb to the privilege of being the chosen one by purchasing the vehicle at sticker or possible a markup.

How do you know the dealer is going to abide by this imaginary list and not sell the vehicle to the highest bidder?

Why makes your money greener than the next guy?

Don't buy into the BS; which I know it is for a fact from friends in the business. The first and only person the list is Benjamin Franklin and all his dead compadres.

Money talks and BS wins NASCAR races..
Someone kick your poochie? I got my PTS GT3 at sticker in the fall from being #1 on my Porsche dealer's list. And I was offered the first M4 GTS by my BMW dealer when I was #1 on that list, as well (remember, the M4 GTS was trading at over sticker when it first came out). I passed on the M4 and was quickly refunded my deposit. Every dealer is different. Some are shady, some are honorable. Also, no dealer has ever asked me to start or be on a waitlist. So none of them has tried to play any psychological mumbo jumbo or anything else you may conjure up. I know of dealers who have played games exactly as you stated -- but that doesn't mean all dealers are bad or that all waitlists are a waste of time or mere sales trickery.
TL;DR

The subject wasn't if you personally got a deal or what car someone bought first, so haste doesn't apply here but something tells me that humble bragging was the reason behind your reply.

Congratulations on being the "first" GT3 owner..

Seriously, someone kicked me because I was stating facts? If you want to stick your head in the sand, that's fine but I was educating another specifically on the so-called "list," not just ragging on all dealers, so don't take it so personal there, big boy..
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      04-23-2019, 01:33 PM   #35
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Pricing is going to be interesting for sure. BMWNA is reeling from the pricing on the M3 CS at the moment as their expected customers simply rejected the car priced at MSRP. Many were turned off by the elimination of items that essentially had almost no weight like comfort access. In any event after a few months of massive incentives, there is still a large unsold inventory of M3 CS' here. $20k off MSRP is not uncommon apparently, and there have been some crazy lease rate offers too (i.e. cheaper to lease a $105k M3 CS than a $65k M2C).
The removal of the armrest and it's storage is one of the most ludicrous things I have seen.
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      04-23-2019, 01:55 PM   #36
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Yes been almost 1.5 years here, and I am holding out..


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Originally Posted by Woots View Post
Goodness only put you’re name down now and you’re still #1 on the list!
I think some have had their name down for a couple of years!
Most maybe holding out/dreaming for a CSL...
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      04-23-2019, 03:03 PM   #37
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Genuine question for those on a list. I assume you have a price point in mind where you'd be out....?

I think with the way the M3/4 went it might be close to that. In the UK the CS price was Comp Pack x 1.5

Does that price keep you on track to buy? I think currently the UK M2C is £51k so that would take it into the mid £70ks maybe £75k. Sweet Jesus I've never typed that out before.

Towards the end of the M3CS days some cars were tempting with £20k discounted but it would need to be similar, maybe £75k discounted to around £60k perhaps. Damn that's still going to be really really steep finance.

I think ... I might have talked myself out of it!
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      04-23-2019, 03:37 PM   #38
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Genuine question for those on a list. I assume you have a price point in mind where you'd be out....?

I think with the way the M3/4 went it might be close to that. In the UK the CD price was Comp Pack x 1.5

Does that price keep you on track to buy? I think currently the UK M2C is £51k so that would take it into the mid £70ks maybe £75k. Sweet Jesus I've never typed that out before.

Towards the end of the M3CS days some cars were tempting with £20k discounted but it would need to be similar, maybe £75k discounted to around £60k perhaps. Damn that's still going to be really really steep finance.

I think ... I might have talked myself out of it!
I believe the thought is valid. I've tossed around price point limit for a while, and I haven't decided how much is too much. My wife and daughter poke fun at me because I want certain things to be a bit more exclusive. I'm willing to pay a bit more for that. I like the fact the my current car with it's specific color combo may be the only one in the state. I've only seen one other one in town, and it's not a convertible.

I like the 911, but turns me off that I see so many. I rarely see any M2s in any form in town. I also want a car that oozes fun factor. I also want a car that I can share the enjoyment with my family. For me, I think the M2CS will check most of these boxes and be a car that I hold on to. Add to the stable later as opposed to swap to something different.

The Alfa Romeo bothers me because the base looks almost the same as the QV.

I will say that $80k is a hell of a lot of cash for a small car, but that's the nature of paying for performance. Is it necessary, probably not. If you can afford it, then why not. It's piece of mind knowing that the car is built to withstand a beating. Drive it like you stole it.

The midengine Corvette seems interesting, but only two seats.
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      04-23-2019, 07:38 PM   #39
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Genuine question for those on a list. I assume you have a price point in mind where you'd be out....?
I think with the way the M3/4 went it might be close to that. In the UK the CS price was Comp Pack x 1.5
Does that price keep you on track to buy? I think currently the UK M2C is £51k so that would take it into the mid £70ks maybe £75k. Sweet Jesus I've never typed that out before.
Towards the end of the M3CS days some cars were tempting with £20k discounted but it would need to be similar, maybe £75k discounted to around £60k perhaps. Damn that's still going to be really really steep finance.
I think ... I might have talked myself out of it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I believe the thought is valid. I've tossed around price point limit for a while, and I haven't decided how much is too much. My wife and daughter poke fun at me because I want certain things to be a bit more exclusive. I'm willing to pay a bit more for that. I like the fact the my current car with it's specific color combo may be the only one in the state. I've only seen one other one in town, and it's not a convertible.
I like the 911, but turns me off that I see so many. I rarely see any M2s in any form in town. I also want a car that oozes fun factor. I also want a car that I can share the enjoyment with my family. For me, I think the M2CS will check most of these boxes and be a car that I hold on to. Add to the stable later as opposed to swap to something different.
The Alfa Romeo bothers me because the base looks almost the same as the QV.
I will say that $80k is a hell of a lot of cash for a small car, but that's the nature of paying for performance. Is it necessary, probably not. If you can afford it, then why not. It's piece of mind knowing that the car is built to withstand a beating. Drive it like you stole it.
The midengine Corvette seems interesting, but only two seats.
Back in the day, the price of the E46 M3 CSL was the E46 M3 price × approx. 1.5.

Check the video below from 05:00 tot 6:55:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4veu8
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      04-24-2019, 09:31 AM   #40
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So I just bought a M2 Competition on Friday (used with 500 miles) and I'm in love with the car. I also own a M3 CS, which btw are still on dealer lots as I'm sure most of you know. I'm also #1 on the list at my dealer for M2 CS.
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      04-24-2019, 10:08 AM   #41
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So I just bought a M2 Competition on Friday (used with 500 miles) and I'm in love with the car. I also own a M3 CS, which btw are still on dealer lots as I'm sure most of you know. I'm also #1 on the list at my dealer for M2 CS.
. I hear ya boss
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      04-24-2019, 12:15 PM   #42
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LMAO!!! Put your name on the list.
Funny my salesmen told me first come first serve even if they're on the list that's how I got my OG M2 2nd on the lot...
And for the m2c he called me if I was interested I told him I'll pass for the CSL (m2 cs) .... Lol
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      04-24-2019, 12:33 PM   #43
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Yeah, you get on a list and hope. It's all you can really do as they can sell to anyone they want. If I get screwed, then it'll just be life saying that wasn't the car for me. I'll find something else. There's a lot of options in this price segment.
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      04-24-2019, 01:50 PM   #44
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I was on 3 lists for the M2C and only got a call from one dealer — and that's the one I already had a relationship with. Keep tabs on them and let them know you really want the car.
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