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M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > ▀▄ eas | MY19 M2 Competition Dynojet results! (whp) (Sep 2018)

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      10-03-2018, 07:28 PM   #89
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      10-03-2018, 07:35 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl44 View Post
notice @2.5k the N55 has 75more FT LB than the S55 400ish vs 325. After 3k its all S55. explains less low end snap for the M2C.carl
I'm past 2.5k in a millisecond, I don't notice.
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      10-03-2018, 08:07 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
could this also be the reason bmw coded out the low end torque from the m2c/3/4

to avoid spun crank hub?
The N55 has the same exact crankhub assembly. It was coded out because early owners and reviewers did not like all the power down low. They asked for a more linear powerband. Remember a lot of the owners were coming from their previous E9x M3, that built power through the rev range. The revised bed plate was to address crank hub. Cars built after 12/15 have new bed plate.

Last edited by hellrotm; 10-03-2018 at 08:17 PM..
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      10-03-2018, 08:08 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
They really killed the post peak power band though. The M4 is so much more flat in the higher revs. Why does the M2 CS suffer so much?
It is all software. Keep the M2 in line and off the toes of the M4. Power is there, just a simple tune away.
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      10-03-2018, 08:09 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
I'm past 2.5k in a millisecond, I don't notice.
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      10-04-2018, 04:43 AM   #94
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Am I the only one that's disappointed in this? I assumed that the M2C would be much closer in power to the F80/2 since their ratings are closer on paper.
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      10-04-2018, 06:01 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Am I the only one that's disappointed in this? I assumed that the M2C would be much closer in power to the F80/2 since their ratings are closer on paper.
It's only 25whp off and its rated 25hp less than non zcp M3/4.
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      10-04-2018, 06:18 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Am I the only one that's disappointed in this? I assumed that the M2C would be much closer in power to the F80/2 since their ratings are closer on paper.
You are taking chassis dyno readings as an absolute. They are not engine dyno and should not be taken as such.

Different day, different chassis, different set of wheels and tires all play as variables.

One of my ex car had a 40hp at the wheels advantage to my friend’s car (same as mine) but turns out that we accelerated at the same rate and end up at the same speed upto 200km/h...

The quarter mile trap speed is a much better indicator to gauge engine power delta between different cars, not chassis dyno.
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      10-04-2018, 06:55 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
I remember a BMW engineer quoted 12.5% drivetrain loss for manual e90 335i.
Manuals have less drivetrain loss.

These numbers are a reference that I would not take seriously. Go look at a car with a th400 swap... the drivetrain absorbs a ton of power but it performs fantastic.

Also, stock numbers are boring. These cars are meant to be toyed with. I couldn't imagine waking up in the morning and thinking "time to go drive my stock car"
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      10-04-2018, 08:08 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU_Logan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
I remember a BMW engineer quoted 12.5% drivetrain loss for manual e90 335i.
Manuals have less drivetrain loss.

These numbers are a reference that I would not take seriously. Go look at a car with a th400 swap... the drivetrain absorbs a ton of power but it performs fantastic.

Also, stock numbers are boring. These cars are meant to be toyed with. I couldn't imagine waking up in the morning and thinking "time to go drive my stock car"
You're probably on to something ...I'm sure bmw does want you to toy with the engine so you can void the warranty and when it breaks buy/ lease a new one.
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      10-04-2018, 08:31 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farns2345 View Post
You're probably on to something ...I'm sure bmw does want you to toy with the engine so you can void the warranty and when it breaks buy/ lease a new one.
Break
Buy
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      10-04-2018, 01:03 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Would be cool to see M2 vs. M2C vs. M3 vs. M3C vs. M3CS on the same dyno chart. Guess you may as well throw in GTS as well.

It would be very interesting to see what potential is available from BMW's "stock" tuning on basically the same engine.
Unfortunately, the only GTS runs we have were during troubleshooting of a failed water injector system (seems to be a widespread issues) and would not be useful for comparison.
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      10-04-2018, 01:42 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Unfortunately, the only GTS runs we have were during troubleshooting of a failed water injector system (seems to be a widespread issues) and would not be useful for comparison.
SAE numbers?
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      10-04-2018, 01:46 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
WAY less than I expected. Since I don't usually see N55 results that high I guess we will know more when more results come in.
Don't focus too much on the peak numbers though. Look at the area under curve after 2700RPM. It's quite impressive IMO. For instance, around 6600RPM M2C is making nearly 60whp more than OG M2.
Don't know if I am the only one but I read those curves in a strange way, M2 OG HP power seems to increase with more RPM (looks normal) while M2C shows a HP pick in low RPN...then decline... strange or do I read it wrong?

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      10-04-2018, 01:57 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Don't know if I am the only one but I read those curves in a strange way, M2 OG HP power seems to increase with more RPM (looks normal) while M2C shows a HP pick in low RPN...then decline... strange or do I read it wrong?

Thanks
They both make their peak HP at around 6K RPM and then the HP curve starts to decline slowly for both models. I don't know where you are seeing M2C making peak HP at low RPM. You might be reading it wrong. In the M2 vs M2C graph: Solid blue --> M2C HP, faded blue --> M2C TQ, solid red --> OG M2 HP, faded red --> OG M2 TQ
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      10-04-2018, 02:19 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Don't know if I am the only one but I read those curves in a strange way, M2 OG HP power seems to increase with more RPM (looks normal) while M2C shows a HP pick in low RPN...then decline... strange or do I read it wrong?

Thanks
They both make their peak HP at around 6K RPM and then the HP curve starts to decline slowly for both models. I don't know where you are seeing M2C making peak HP at low RPM. You might be reading it wrong. In the M2 vs M2C graph: Solid blue --> M2C HP, faded blue --> M2C TQ, solid red --> OG M2 HP, faded red --> OG M2 TQ
Great thanks now I get it right
So M2 max HP at 350 HP, 400 for M2C
Both below official numbers ...
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      10-04-2018, 05:34 PM   #105
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      10-04-2018, 05:34 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1969 View Post
Great thanks now I get it right
So M2 max HP at 350 HP, 400 for M2C
Both below official numbers ...
Keep in mind these numbers are at the wheels, which as other have stated are 10-15% lower than crank.
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      10-04-2018, 06:39 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
This drivetrain loss swag is getting old. Someone remove the damn motor and dyno it properly once and for all and then compare to a particular dyno to calculate the actual loss.


Incidentally, this post's Dynojet run is not average for an M2 on 91oct. Most are no where near 350whp, rather averaging around 330whp - a very consistent average. 93oct will get you 5-10whp more.
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      10-05-2018, 12:29 AM   #108
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Believe it or not, I tend to think M2 OG stock actually makes a little more than the independent numbers first gotten in USA in summer 2016, which are low because M2 is sensitive to temperature like no other BMW.

Last winter, I myself organized a dyno day where a stock M2 sample put down 340whp, repeatedly, on RON98 on a low reading dynojet, the same day M4 ZCP showed only 397whp.

In my opinion, 350+whp with RON98(AKI93) and 340 with RON95(AKI91) would be true numbers, corrected to STD, if your octane lives up to its rating, which is a big IF for middle and west USA.

EAS number is a bit high (in fact the highest reported ever seen for a 91 M2), but still within acceptance range.
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      10-05-2018, 05:21 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Believe it or not, I tend to think M2 OG stock actually makes a little more than the independent numbers first gotten in USA in summer 2016, which are low because M2 is sensitive to temperature like no other BMW.

Last winter, I myself organized a dyno day where a stock M2 sample put down 340whp, repeatedly, on RON98 on a low reading dynojet, the same day M4 ZCP showed only 397whp.

In my opinion, 350+whp with RON98(AKI93) and 340 with RON95(AKI91) would be true numbers, corrected to STD, if your octane lives up to its rating, which is a big IF for middle and west USA.

EAS number is a bit high (in fact the highest reported ever seen for a 91 M2), but still within acceptance range.
What's normal for M2 91?
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      10-05-2018, 06:26 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS_BMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Am I the only one that's disappointed in this? I assumed that the M2C would be much closer in power to the F80/2 since their ratings are closer on paper.
It's only 25whp off and its rated 25hp less than non zcp M3/4.
You may be looking at the peak value but look at the curve. There are points where the difference is 50 whp at a specific rpm. That is more important than looking at just a peak number. That's what I was referring to.
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