[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by Ty Vil

Ship the car from your dealer if you don’t want to fly/drive it home.

Making an offer to negotiate with the sales person on cost of courtesy delivery simply won’t work - they’re giving you the $1000 number that’s been dictated by their management already.

Dina Gifford at Angels Moving Autos is a great transport broker.

Just FYI Ty, so you don't think I missed your post, I wasn't negotiating this with the sales person, I was communicating directly with the sales manager. We knew up front that the sales rep had no involvement with this process.

Originally Posted by bobert

Any luck w/this?

I took the diplomatic route, back on March 20, and explained to the sales manager that we were looking for a low-effort delivery, no delivery services required including detailing or fuel, just paperwork and keys hand-off and in return we were looking forward to using North Scottsdale as our service dealer. I didn't make any demands, just said that a $1000 delivery fee seemed excessive given the circumstances and chance for an ongoing relationship. He seemed amenable to the situation, understood that we did try to buy from them originally and still want to use them for service, and said he'd speak with the general manager about the fee and get back to us within 2 days. Since then, I haven't heard anything, that was 11 days ago.

The Texas dealer was going to make another attempt at communication, but I haven't heard from them that anything has happened. Unless a deal was made and we don't know about it, we don't yet know where the car is being delivered. We've been busy with other things and haven't had much time or inclination to stress over it.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by afwares

Just FYI Ty, so you don't think I missed your post, I wasn't negotiating this with the sales person, I was communicating directly with the sales manager. We knew up front that the sales rep had no involvement with this process.



I took the diplomatic route, back on March 20, and explained to the sales manager that we were looking for a low-effort delivery, no delivery services required including detailing or fuel, just paperwork and keys hand-off and in return we were looking forward to using North Scottsdale as our service dealer. I didn't make any demands, just said that a $1000 delivery fee seemed excessive given the circumstances and chance for an ongoing relationship. He seemed amenable to the situation, understood that we did try to buy from them originally and still want to use them for service, and said he'd speak with the general manager about the fee and get back to us within 2 days. Since then, I haven't heard anything, that was 11 days ago.

The Texas dealer was going to make another attempt at communication, but I haven't heard from them that anything has happened. Unless a deal was made and we don't know about it, we don't yet know where the car is being delivered. We've been busy with other things and haven't had much time or inclination to stress over it.

BMW would like you to think that a BMW dealership is an oasis in the midst of the greater car dealership swamp. They even have titles such as "Client Advisor" instead of "Car Salesman," and I forget what they call the closer instead of "F&I" guy, but he's still an F&I guy. But, the car business is the car business, no matter how they try to gussy it up.

On the plus side in your case, you will probably find that the service dept. doesn't really have much to do with the sales dept., so no matter how much lack of service/passive aggressive shit you may have to deal with on the sales end, once you are done with these people you are pretty much done with them, and a new chapter begins.

I'd do a little trip to Texas if it was me. It's not like you have to drive across the country, it's a hop, skip, and a jump. You may even discover a good place for biscuits and gravy along the route :-)

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by champignon

BMW would like you to think that a BMW dealership is an oasis in the midst of the greater car dealership swamp. They even have titles such as "Client Advisor" instead of "Car Salesman," and I forget what they call the closer instead of "F&I" guy, but he's still an F&I guy. But, the car business is the car business, no matter how they try to gussy it up.

Yep, it's not about the brand, it's really about the type of talent and quality of people that any particular dealer draws and seeks out, and this applies whether you're shopping Hyundai or Lexus. Though I imagine it's different at the very high end...I've never shopped a new Ferrari or similar-level, but have to assume at that level the standards are higher. At least I'd hope so.

[Spa2k]

As I said earlier, you're absolutely wasting your time with anyone but the general manager - not the sales manager. The general manager can make an instant decision; the sales manager probably can't. Make the call yourself or, better yet, make an appointment to sit down face-to-face with him. He may not like the way you've been treated so far, which is greatly in your favor.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

As I said earlier, you're absolutely wasting your time with anyone but the sales manager. Make the call yourself or, better yet, make an appointment to sit down face-to-face with him. He won't like the way you're being treated.

That's who we've been dealing with (both myself and our Texas dealer's sales manager), the North Scottsdale sales manager.

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by afwares

That's who we've been dealing with (both myself and our Texas dealer's sales manager), the North Scottsdale sales manager.

Sorry - I meant general manager. Fixed #26 post.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

Sorry - I meant general manager. Fixed #26 post.

Just heard back, apparently General Manager overruled Sales Manager, and now they outright will not do the Courtesy Delivery at all. Not even a matter of cost, they flat out rejected it.

We reiterated that we wanted no delivery services whatsoever, and they'd immediately get the 1200-mile service before we even pick up the car, as we'll drive enough in Europe to need that immediately, not to mention ongoing service, but they said no.

For those wondering, every email we've sent, every phone call, has been polite and considerate. We've never made demands, never gotten belligerent, and our time with CA Blane Hammons was positive so it's not as if they have any reason to reject it for personal reasons. They know we wanted to buy it from them from the outset, but they don't do ED for any M Cars whatsoever, as we were told, so it shouldn't be a case of them taking revenge for us not buying there. We tried to buy there.

So onward we press...Palm Springs is 3.5 hours West, but they won't return our phone calls about it. Tucson is 2 hours South, but they wouldn't do an ED either, so they probably won't be jumping to help us, but we'll try them anyway.

I predict I'll either be transporting the car or making the 11 hour drive from Texas. I have already requested a quote from Intercity Lines for enclosed transport, just so we know our options.

Will keep you all posted.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by afwares

Yep, it's not about the brand, it's really about the type of talent and quality of people that any particular dealer draws and seeks out, and this applies whether you're shopping Hyundai or Lexus. Though I imagine it's different at the very high end...I've never shopped a new Ferrari or similar-level, but have to assume at that level the standards are higher. At least I'd hope so.

My dealer's service dept. is very accommodating. In all honesty, I prefer the local VW dealer's sales department to the one in the BMW dealer. The VW dealer is one of those "we post our best prices on the car," non-negotiating type of dealers. Still, they made no effort whatsoever to sell me anything additional when I bought my Golf R from them, and the salesman (who reportedly is not on commission, according to the dealership) made no effort to sell me an extended warranty and even stated that it would be a waste of money in my situation, where I won't put a lot of miles on that car.

My obligatory F&I experience at the BMW dealer was not a whole lot more pleasant than what I have experienced at the local Subaru dealer, who is one of those dealerships that justifies your prejudices about car dealers, before you even walk in the door :-)

Texas is a charming place, I keep hearing from Texans I have met :-)

[DanG]

My stent with the F&I guy was very pleasant. It took about ten minutes. He knew I didn't want any extended warranties or maintenance from previous purchases. So he didn't even bring up the subject.

[bobert]

Originally Posted by afwares

Just heard back, apparently General Manager overruled Sales Manager, and now they outright will not do the Courtesy Delivery at all. Not even a matter of cost, they flat out rejected it.

Wow... allowing it to be unloaded, holding a piece of paper and a key fob, that is too much for them...

[Spa2k]

Sorry the combined brilliance of this group couldn't help. I'm surprised, because Penske dealers are usually trained to believe the customer comes first, no matter what the circumstances. It sure seemed that way the last time I was in that store (way over a year ago). Maybe they got burned big-time on an ED or two. If it's any consolation, I see that both of their in-stock M2s have big ADMs on them, so maybe their attitude isn't so great after all.

[Ty Vil]

I could have told you that this is how it would go at BMW NS. Kurt and Sam (who I assume you were talking to) have their hands tied by their boss the GM (you can google to figure out his name) and there's no point trying to negotiate or even reason with him.

Let me know if I can help with anything. I have a lot of inside knowledge with BMW (I was a CA from 2009-2017 and as you may have figured out worked at BMW NS for about 4 years.)

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by bobert

Wow... allowing it to be unloaded, holding a piece of paper and a key fob, that is too much for them...

And you've followed our process from the beginning, you know how much bat guano we've had to shovel to keep this purchase moving forward

Originally Posted by Spa2k

Sorry the combined brilliance of this group couldn't help. I'm surprised, because Penske dealers are usually trained to believe the customer comes first, no matter what the circumstances. It sure seemed that way the last time I was in that store (way over a year ago). Maybe they got burned big-time on an ED or two. If it's any consolation, I see that both of their in-stock M2s have big ADMs on them, so maybe their attitude isn't so great after all.

Hey, I appreciate everyone's input. I think the consolation will come when we finally have the car. If it's as good as everyone says, it will have been worth it.

Originally Posted by Ty Vil

I could have told you that this is how it would go at BMW NS. Kurt and Sam (who I assume you were talking to) have their hands tied by their boss the GM (you can google to figure out his name) and there's no point trying to negotiate or even reason with him.

Let me know if I can help with anything. I have a lot of inside knowledge with BMW (I was a CA from 2009-2017 and as you may have figured out worked at BMW NS for about 4 years.)

Wish I'd crossed paths with you sooner, it would have saved us some time and effort, though the end result may have been the same in terms of delivery options. Your assumption is correct about our contact there. I appreciate the help offer - don't be surprised if I take you up on that somewhere along the way. If there's something about our approach that could have been done differently, I wouldn't mind hearing. Always good to keep learning for next time.

[Wharf Rat]

Man, sorry to hear you're having such problems.

Curious as to which dealership in TX is 700 miles away. El Paso is only 400 miles; Austin & San Antonio are 1,000.
Anyway, if it was me I'd fly there & drive her home. Road trips are fun.

Hope it all works out.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Originally Posted by Wharf Rat

Man, sorry to hear you're having such problems.

Curious as to which dealership in TX is 700 miles away. El Paso is only 400 miles; Austin & San Antonio are 1,000.
Anyway, if it was me I'd fly there & drive her home. Road trips are fun.

Hope it all works out.

Thanks dude, dealer is in Lubbock. They have been fantastic - we don't have any regrets about switching dealers, even with the delivery question still unanswered. Even if I have to road trip from TX, will still be totally worth it.

[Fear-Mongrel]

Just wanted to update this thread, in case anybody is still following who might be in the process of doing their own ED.

BMW of Tucson came through for us, after much back and forth, and agreed to do the courtesy delivery of our M2. They also did it gratis, no cost. I don't know what dealers have to do to the cars after they come off the truck - are the suspension transport blocks removed at the dealer or port? - but I can tell you that the actual delivery took 60 seconds. Walked in, gave our name, they gave us a key, pointed to the car, off we went. No papers, no signatures, nothing. We were blue-taping it for the trip home (2 hours) so it wasn't washed or detailed and it had 2 gallons of fuel. None of this was an issue in the slightest, as we were happy to minimize Tucson's effort and cost in exchange for the delivery. So it was close to zero-effort for them, and it was zero cost for us. Now that we've done it, and seen how low-effort it can be, we really don't understand why BMW of North Scottsdale - who would have gotten the next 4 years of maintenance business from us at a minimum - wanted $1000 for this "service".

Lastly, a HUGE thank you to Scott Bednorz at Alderson BMW in Lubbock, Texas. Without them, we'd be driving a Mazda or Audi, no joking or exaggeration. Our journey towards an M2 started 10 months ago with a Phoenix dealer and it went downhill fast. We assumed that every BMW dealer was familiar with, and experienced at processing, ED purchases but we quickly found this not to be the case. Scott at Alderson BMW pulled this transaction out of the garbage and saved it. Not only did he know exactly how ED deliveries work, and how to process them, but the whole Alderson team was fast to respond to every question and inquiry. We got details from him within 48 hours that we'd never seen after 5 months of talking to our previous dealer. And they made the finance side a walk in the park. There was no pushing of add-on products, no sales pressure to purchase extra things, no excessive fees, no BS around establishing and locking in the money factor, it was exactly how every purchase should go. And yes, they honor the 5% ED discount. We can wholeheartedly recommend Scott & Alderson BMW if you want to do a Euro Delivery or just need a dealer to help make your purchase happen. Full disclosure - we have no affiliation with Alderson, other than being a new customer and happy enough to make a sign to bring to the Welt with us...

[bobert]

Originally Posted by afwares

BMW of Tucson came through for us, after much back and forth, and agreed to do the courtesy delivery of our M2. They also did it gratis, no cost.
...but I can tell you that the actual delivery took 60 seconds. Walked in, gave our name, they gave us a key, pointed to the car, off we went. No papers, no signatures, nothing.
...
So it was close to zero-effort for them, and it was zero cost for us. Now that we've done it, and seen how low-effort it can be, we really don't understand why BMW of North Scottsdale - who would have gotten the next 4 years of maintenance business from us at a minimum - wanted $1000 for this "service".

Scott at Alderson BMW pulled this transaction out of the garbage and saved it. Not only did he know exactly how ED deliveries work, and how to process them, but the whole Alderson team was fast to respond to every question and inquiry. We got details from him within 48 hours that we'd never seen after 5 months of talking to our previous dealer.
...it was exactly how every purchase should go. And yes, they honor the 5% ED discount.

Glad to hear you got one of the local dealers to accept courtesy delivery! As I mentioned, it is indeed almost zero effort required! And I agree Scott is the man - everyone I dealt with there was very responsive and easy to work with. He & I both learned a lot about Euro Delivery while doing mine last year!