06-12-2018, 11:55 AM | #463 | |
TIM YOYO
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Gearboxes are expensive to develop, and BMW doesn't develop their own. Combine this with the limited market for DCT transmissions (compared to traditional AT), and you have a circumstance where no one makes a DCT that is rated for the torque levels the M5 puts out. Technically, a DCT transmission is superior to a traditional AT, but there are fewer DCT applications, so the net cost of development is higher. As they say, the answer to 99 out of 100 question is: money.
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06-12-2018, 03:54 PM | #464 |
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06-12-2018, 06:57 PM | #465 | |
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06-13-2018, 04:38 PM | #466 | |
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06-13-2018, 09:12 PM | #467 | |
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06-14-2018, 12:51 AM | #468 | |
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07-03-2018, 08:57 AM | #470 |
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I will use the words of Car & Driver magazine to summarize the last 22 pages.
“The M240i’s greatest achievement is that it doesn’t feel like a compromise next to the M2, but rather makes its own case as a more usable and more comfortable alternative for less money. If you plan to spend many weekends working out at a racetrack, by all means stretch for the M2. If you’re just looking for a lively driving companion for daily commutes and weekend getaways, the M240i is the better M car for that job.” Also, I am thrilled that the M2C gets the S55 and that he B58 exists. It means that the next M2 will have at least 400hp and gets the goodness from everything learned from these two great motors. |
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07-03-2018, 09:44 AM | #471 | |
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07-03-2018, 08:23 PM | #472 | ||
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otherwise it's the same. Maybe exhaust loudness is a factor for some? This just seems like a case of car reviewers are not actually buyers. Would they really jump in the 240 over an M2 on their commutes if given the choice? I doubt it. My co worker wants to buy an M after driving my M2 but is settling for a 340 or 240. The reason is price. I told him to get a used m235 but his wife will not allow a used car. |
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07-03-2018, 09:53 PM | #473 |
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I believe C&D is using the term usable broadly. If we use the interior space and trunk space metrics, they are both equivalent. But, the M240i can be had with AWD making it more “usable” for regions with inclement weather. A softer and more compliant suspension makes it “usable” for a wider audience, etc.
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07-05-2018, 01:03 PM | #474 | |
TIM YOYO
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The M235i Racing is a production M235i that is then race prepped at minimal expense. Just look at the exterior: they bolted on panels over the existing bodywork, rather than replacing body panels. Yes, the DCT is existing technology, but it was never put into the production M235i. It was never a choice between using the ZF8 or DCT, it was a choice between using the production transmission, or developing a bespoke solution for the race car. The costs involved are very, very different. From here, we have to examine whether it would even make sense to do so. The M235i Racing was developed for a single-make series. This meant that BMW was setting their own performance target. Given that the road car did not have a DCT, this would have meant allocating the entire cost of the DCT/M235i mating development to the M235i Racing program. Ultimately, the M235i Racing has nothing at all to do with the relative merits of the DCT vs ZF8. We can't infer anything at all from BMW's choice, because the choice between ZF8 and DCT was not on equal footing. I'm certain the DCT was never even considered. Why would it be, given that the car will only ever compete with itself?
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08-03-2018, 03:38 PM | #475 |
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I'm currently driving a M240i and love the car.
I have a Dinan Stage 1 tune on it and there is literally too much power for the tires. But I'm really thinking about trading it in for the new M2 Competition. My M240i needs more rubber and its really hard getting bigger tires on that car. I think the stiffer springs and wider rubber on the M2 would be great. Main reason I chose the M240i over the M2 was the motor (along with price). Now that the M2 has a better motor with more potential I dont mind paying the price premium. |
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08-03-2018, 03:49 PM | #476 | |
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I did order an M2 Competition. My car is 3 years old and I couldn't resist a new toy. If you just need more grip then you can save some money...I'll even sell you mine! |
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08-04-2018, 10:25 AM | #477 | |
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more power for sure but the b58 is such a smooth eager engine it sounds better and has less lag than the s55... now the s58 might be an engine worth making rhe switch for |
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08-04-2018, 11:44 PM | #478 |
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Dynos of both engines show the S55 (ZCP) makes similar torque at 2500 RPM and then considerably more through the rest of the range. It's only lag relative to B58 if you consider that it ends up making more, yes.
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08-19-2018, 03:12 PM | #479 |
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There are a few reasons where the M235/M240 makes sense. My M235i is really fast, no problem there. The ZF8 is a super smooth transmission capable of allowing my M235i to get 32+ miles per gallon on the highway. The M2 will never get this kind of mileage. Most enthusiasts don't care about fuel efficiency but some commuters might find a fast car with efficiency a plus.
Another point of difference is the adjustable suspension on the M235/M240. It does allow a more compliant ride at times which some might like. In my opinion it just isn't that great. It's one of the reasons I've ordered a M2C. I prefer a standard non-adjustable suspension even if it is a bit more jarring. It just feels more refined overall. I think there are some systems out there like "magnetic ride" that might be ok, I can't speak to those system. |
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08-20-2018, 02:10 PM | #480 | |
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http://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/m235i http://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/m2
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08-20-2018, 02:16 PM | #481 | |
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08-20-2018, 02:30 PM | #482 |
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I have 13.5K on the clock - roughly 10K my miles - always in either Sport or Sport+
My computer in the car says that I am getting 24 MPG fwiw - I have never reset this function. |
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08-20-2018, 03:13 PM | #483 | |
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Here are some reasons that the M235i with the ZF8 can get this kind of mileage and the M2 can't. The 33mpg that I quoted was with the A/C off, which makes a big difference. Most people don't pay any attention and leave it on all the time. It sucks gas. M235i has a less aggressive tune M235i has a heavier fly wheel ? M235i has smaller wheels/tires which = less friction and perhaps less weight M235i has a lower air drag coefficient then the M2 The biggest factor is the ZF8 which is incredibly smart at shifting, for fuel economy it is light years ahead of the DCT in the M2. In Eco mode the A/C is also throttled back if you are using it. I've ordered an M2C so clearly fuel efficiency is not my thing. My point was that if you are commuting with the M235i without heavy traffic you can get decent fuel economy with the advantage of a lot of power if you want it. |
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08-20-2018, 04:18 PM | #484 |
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I owned an M235i for four years before buying an M2. There is no comparison. The M2 has much better feeling of the road and can handle curves much better. I wasn't planning on trading in my M235i. I was in for a service appointment and my sales advisor grabbed me and told me they had an M2 that a customer back out on. He said I had to drive it. After a 30 mile test drive, I had to have it.
By the way, I would take a DCT over the ZF8 any day. |
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