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      11-20-2020, 06:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Baege

Hope like hell you are wrong . . . I submitted build for G80 M3C and counting on the S58 to be a dynamo

///AVM
are you replacing the M2C?

the s58 will be blindingly fast I am sure, but my experience with the b58 suggests the s58 might just feel a little synthetic/less visceral...but hope I am wrong as well!
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      11-20-2020, 06:50 AM   #24
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Currently in CA. Honestly, there is no good excuse for not taking the better deal versus grabbing one off of the lot so I won't try to make one.

I would NOT sell your E36. Your E36 is my E46 that I never should have sold. I really liked my Porsche 981BS. What kept it from forever keeper status was tall gearing and marginal electric steering. That said, I'm sure there is another Porsche in my future. Really liked my E92 but always felt heavy to me. My F80 doesn't feel heavy, but it drives big dimensions wise. And I like the S55s torque, but the engine otherwise lacks character. I'm still holding out hope for the G87. If it slots in size wise between the current M2 and F80 M3, offers an adaptive suspension, has improved steering, wields the S58 and offers a manual that pairs up well with it, the car could be a real winner. On the weight front, the clar platform, a CF roof, and lighter wheels and brakes could keep lbs down. Time will tell. In the meantime, I plan on enjoying my M2 Competition!!
Great feedback. Yea I'm leaning towards keeping the E36 because I just feel like I'm really going to miss it if I sell. Can't really buy cars like that anymore these days. I'll just have to show some patience (harder said than done) and add some type of M2 later.

Car looks gorgeous in SO, what an underrated color. The second picture really shows that it's related to an orange 1M.
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      11-20-2020, 06:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by baege View Post
are you replacing the M2C?

the s58 will be blindingly fast I am sure, but my experience with the b58 suggests the s58 might just feel a little synthetic/less visceral...but hope I am wrong as well!
I've got quite a bit of experience with the S58, but it's in an F97/98, so we're talking about a heavy SUV with 8AT. With that car, you really have to be in the right setting to get the most out of it, otherwise it's pretty laggy at low RPM. I don't feel that at all with the S55, but once again, that's an M2/3/4 with 6MT or DCT, so really apples to oranges
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      11-20-2020, 07:29 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by baege View Post
are you replacing the M2C?

the s58 will be blindingly fast I am sure, but my experience with the b58 suggests the s58 might just feel a little synthetic/less visceral...but hope I am wrong as well!
Baege

Well, I learned my 'lesson' with dual 718 CGTS and M2C ownership . . . I do not enjoy owing two visceral cars simultaneously.

To me, the G80 will still be a very visceral driving experience, so I do not plan to keep the M2C.

If I am wrong about the G80 M2C, well, I truly believe the G87 M2C is going to one bad-ass ///M car.

///AVM

Last edited by ///AVM; 11-20-2020 at 08:42 AM..
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      11-20-2020, 07:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I've got quite a bit of experience with the S58, but it's in an F97/98, so we're talking about a heavy SUV with 8AT. With that car, you really have to be in the right setting to get the most out of it, otherwise it's pretty laggy at low RPM. I don't feel that at all with the S55, but once again, that's an M2/3/4 with 6MT or DCT, so really apples to oranges
Same experience with my new X3M. The engines should be reversed.

The S55 in the X3M for its good low to midrange torque. It builds nicely from 2k. Not to the V8 levels but still impressive.

THE S58 in the M2C for its 475-520 hp and big top end power. It's very flat at 1500, doesn't have much at 2k, comes on at 2500 and finally kicks you back at 3k. It may be the extra 1000 lbs but bottom end disappoints in the X3M. Its like going back to the 90s turbocharged cars. Good thing the ZF8 readily downshifts 1,2 or more gears....

Other than that, I like the X3M.
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      11-20-2020, 07:35 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by richard in NC View Post
Same experience with my new X3M. The engines should be reversed.

The S55 in the X3M for its good low to midrange torque. It builds nicely from 2k. Not to the V8 levels but still impressive.

THE S58 in the M2C for its 475-520 hp and big top end power. It's very flat at 1500, doesn't have much at 2k, comes on at 2500 and finally kicks you back at 3k. It may be the extra 1000 lbs but bottom end disappoints in the X3M. Its like going back to the 90s turbocharged cars. Good thing the ZF8 readily downshifts 1,2 or more gears....

Other than that, I like the X3M.
Of course, I have no special insight and there are no driving reviews yet available for the G80/82, but . . . I am going to have faith BMW engineers have the S58 dialed-in with the M3/4 . . . and will with the G87 M2 as well.

///AVM

Last edited by ///AVM; 11-20-2020 at 08:43 AM..
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      11-20-2020, 07:42 AM   #29
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Congrats on the car, smart choice IMO but all great cars. I agree with you on the E46 linkage and also that the e46 hydraulic steering was better (many will disagree). Love my M2c and hope you enjoy yours
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      11-20-2020, 09:25 AM   #30
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Congrats on the car, smart choice IMO but all great cars. I agree with you on the E46 linkage and also that the e46 hydraulic steering was better (many will disagree). Love my M2c and hope you enjoy yours
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      11-20-2020, 01:51 PM   #31
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Damn, y'all are getting 2k off in NorCal? I feel dumb for going down to SoCal for 3k off now...

Although mine was a custom order and not dealer stock. Impossible to find HS/6MT on the lot .

Enjoy!
Don't feel bad. I flew down to SoCal for my F80 back in the day as well. I personally found Bay Area BMW dealer attitudes insufferable- it's a BMW, not a frigging Bentley. Ironically enough, my salesman was someone I met in the bay who decided to move back to LA.
I also flew to Orange County to buy my m2. Too much startup cash out money here.
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      11-23-2020, 10:27 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
love the Cayman platform. thinking about selling my S2000s and getting one instead.
Garage

718 CGTS is the best sport car I have owned.

M2C is the best/favorite car I have owned.

In other words, both awesome cars.

I simply did not enjoy owing both simultaneously. . . and decided I did not want to part ways with the M2C.

If you decide to get a 981/718, I have no doubt you will REALLY enjoy what it has to offer.

///AVM
I'm leaning towards a new 718 Spyder or GT4 with money set aside for gearing. The sweet spot maybe a 718 manual GTS 4.0 as I get the powerplant minus GT3 front end with the convenientent softtop which is more functional than the Spyder's manual top. Plus you can get bucket seats in the GTS 4.0 but man that Spyder is the cats meow.

I'm a bit mad about cars so I'm trying not to got to the 'stealership' and enjoy the cars I already own for the moment. But my ultimate dream car has been a Porsche, so I'm not ruling out a low mileage 911 C4S but could only afford the mid engine platform new.

Need to sit with it for a while and decide which one to pursue based on how I would use the car. That would determine which platform and transmission to select. Thoughts?
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      11-23-2020, 10:52 AM   #33
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. . . Need to sit with it for a while and decide which one to pursue based on how I would use the car. That would determine which platform and transmission to select. Thoughts?
GM

Your thoughts are reasonable, as is your inquiring my thoughts. . . Unfortunately, my thoughts are very ME specific and I cannot provide any generalized feedback that would be meaningful toward YOUR decision.

If you have a specific question(s) I would be more than happy to provide you my opinion based on my experiences. In the interim . . .

Porsche builds amazing sport cars and I think most enthusiasts strive to experience Porsche ownership. . . I doubt many are ever disappointed with the experience.

BMW builds amazing sporty coupes/sedans that this enthusiast is partial to at this particular stage of my car ownership journey.

///AVM
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      11-23-2020, 12:23 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
. . . Need to sit with it for a while and decide which one to pursue based on how I would use the car. That would determine which platform and transmission to select. Thoughts?
GM

Your thoughts are reasonable, as is your inquiring my thoughts. . . Unfortunately, my thoughts are very ME specific and I cannot provide any generalized feedback that would be meaningful toward YOUR decision.

If you have a specific question(s) I would be more than happy to provide you my opinion based on my experiences. In the interim . . .

Porsche builds amazing sport cars and I think most enthusiasts strive to experience Porsche ownership. . . I doubt many are ever disappointed with the experience.

BMW builds amazing sporty coupes/sedans that this enthusiast is partial to at this particular stage of my car ownership journey.

///AVM
will PM you.
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      11-23-2020, 12:58 PM   #35
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Also NorCal sunset orange.. welcome to the club!
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      11-23-2020, 06:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
I'm leaning towards a new 718 Spyder or GT4 with money set aside for gearing. The sweet spot maybe a 718 manual GTS 4.0 as I get the powerplant minus GT3 front end with the convenientent softtop which is more functional than the Spyder's manual top. Plus you can get bucket seats in the GTS 4.0 but man that Spyder is the cats meow.

I'm a bit mad about cars so I'm trying not to got to the 'stealership' and enjoy the cars I already own for the moment. But my ultimate dream car has been a Porsche, so I'm not ruling out a low mileage 911 C4S but could only afford the mid engine platform new.

Need to sit with it for a while and decide which one to pursue based on how I would use the car. That would determine which platform and transmission to select. Thoughts?
You have done some homework, so you are off to a good start. You are setting aside money for gearing, so that tells me you are aware it is too tall. You have picked the models with NA engines, and the 718 steering is better than 981. And I agree the GTS is the sweet spot. Having said that, you are throwing me a bit with the 911 C4S. That drives a LOT different than a lighter, RWD, boxster. After driving both you should end up with a strong preference for one versus the other. Also, although many now feel that the cayman/boxster are better drivers cars than 911s (aside from the GTs), you need to be honest with yourself about whether anything other than a 911 will do.

Sounds like you need to scratch the itch so good luck!
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      11-23-2020, 07:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
I'm leaning towards a new 718 Spyder or GT4 with money set aside for gearing. The sweet spot maybe a 718 manual GTS 4.0 as I get the powerplant minus GT3 front end with the convenientent softtop which is more functional than the Spyder's manual top. Plus you can get bucket seats in the GTS 4.0 but man that Spyder is the cats meow.

I'm a bit mad about cars so I'm trying not to got to the 'stealership' and enjoy the cars I already own for the moment. But my ultimate dream car has been a Porsche, so I'm not ruling out a low mileage 911 C4S but could only afford the mid engine platform new.

Need to sit with it for a while and decide which one to pursue based on how I would use the car. That would determine which platform and transmission to select. Thoughts?
You have done some homework, so you are off to a good start. You are setting aside money for gearing, so that tells me you are aware it is too tall. You have picked the models with NA engines, and the 718 steering is better than 981. And I agree the GTS is the sweet spot. Having said that, you are throwing me a bit with the 911 C4S. That drives a LOT different than a lighter, RWD, boxster. After driving both you should end up with a strong preference for one versus the other. Also, although many now feel that the cayman/boxster are better drivers cars than 911s (aside from the GTs), you need to be honest with yourself about whether anything other than a 911 will do.

Sounds like you need to scratch the itch so good luck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMadness View Post
love the Cayman platform. thinking about selling my S2000s and getting one instead.
Garage

718 CGTS is the best sport car I have owned.

M2C is the best/favorite car I have owned.

In other words, both awesome cars.

I simply did not enjoy owing both simultaneously. . . and decided I did not want to part ways with the M2C.

If you decide to get a 981/718, I have no doubt you will REALLY enjoy what it has to offer.

///AVM
I'm leaning towards a new 718 Spyder or GT4 with money set aside for gearing. The sweet spot maybe a 718 manual GTS 4.0 as I get the powerplant minus GT3 front end with the convenientent softtop which is more functional than the Spyder's manual top. Plus you can get bucket seats in the GTS 4.0 but man that Spyder is the cats meow.

I'm a bit mad about cars so I'm trying not to got to the 'stealership' and enjoy the cars I already own for the moment. But my ultimate dream car has been a Porsche, so I'm not ruling out a low mileage 911 C4S but could only afford the mid engine platform new.

Need to sit with it for a while and decide which one to pursue based on how I would use the car. That would determine which platform and transmission to select. Thoughts?
I am in a similar boat to you, Garage. The Porsche allure has gotten me again and I have been debating between the GT4/Spyder as well as the 4.0 GTS, potentially the 992 C2S and even the 992 Carrera T! (Which most likely won't be out until the last two years of the 992 lifecycle if history is any indication.

So here are my thoughts. Let me preface by saying I do not have an unlimited budget and would really like to keep the M2C, because it is such a great daily.

992 C2S
- although it is a 911, with the build I am looking for, I would most likely have to sell my M2C to get this. But the issue is the "specialness" of the car. I don't think a 992 is all that special compared to the 718 GT variants or even the 718 GTS

718 GT4/Spyder
- there is not much to say after your thoughts. It is great, but it is costly. I am not a track rat and will not take my cars to the track. I'm more of a canyon carver and long road trip kinda guy.

718 GTS 4.0
- truly the value bunch because it enables me to replicate the feel of the GT cars for the most part. In terms of driving experience, all reviewers have said there is hardly a difference on the road. I also love that for about $100K, I can get the full buckets and some comfort features. But it does lack some of "specialness" I mentioned earlier. But it may be rectified by speccing Python green to add some uniqueness. However, I would be saving ~$15K compared to the GT4. That may be inconsequential for some. But I still think it is an amount that does take some reflection.

992 Carrera T
- may be the best of the bunch? You get the iconic 911 style, even better now that wide body is standard. You get the bucket seats and the specialness factor. But it is 5+ years away...

I also tend to keep my cars for the long term.

So where I'm I now? I flip between the two 718 variants daily. So who knows and maybe your journey will help me think through mine 😂
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      11-23-2020, 07:52 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
I am in a similar boat to you, Garage. The Porsche allure has gotten me again and I have been debating between the GT4/Spyder as well as the 4.0 GTS, potentially the 992 C2S and even the 992 Carrera T! (Which most likely won't be out until the last two years of the 992 lifecycle if history is any indication.

So here are my thoughts. Let me preface by saying I do not have an unlimited budget and would really like to keep the M2C, because it is such a great daily.

992 C2S
- although it is a 911, with the build I am looking for, I would most likely have to sell my M2C to get this. But the issue is the "specialness" of the car. I don't think a 992 is all that special compared to the 718 GT variants or even the 718 GTS

718 GT4/Spyder
- there is not much to say after your thoughts. It is great, but it is costly. I am not a track rat and will not take my cars to the track. I'm more of a canyon carver and long road trip kinda guy.

718 GTS 4.0
- truly the value bunch because it enables me to replicate the feel of the GT cars for the most part. In terms of driving experience, all reviewers have said there is hardly a difference on the road. I also love that for about $100K, I can get the full buckets and some comfort features. But it does lack some of "specialness" I mentioned earlier. But it may be rectified by speccing Python green to add some uniqueness. However, I would be saving ~$15K compared to the GT4. That may be inconsequential for some. But I still think it is an amount that does take some reflection.

992 Carrera T
- may be the best of the bunch? You get the iconic 911 style, even better now that wide body is standard. You get the bucket seats and the specialness factor. But it is 5+ years away...

I also tend to keep my cars for the long term.

So where I'm I now? I flip between the two 718 variants daily. So who knows and maybe your journey will help me think through mine 😂
JC and Garage

Whatever you get, just make sure it is what YOU want . . . other than that, you cannot go wrong with Porsche.

///AVM
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      11-23-2020, 08:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
I am in a similar boat to you, Garage. The Porsche allure has gotten me again and I have been debating between the GT4/Spyder as well as the 4.0 GTS, potentially the 992 C2S and even the 992 Carrera T! (Which most likely won't be out until the last two years of the 992 lifecycle if history is any indication.

So here are my thoughts. Let me preface by saying I do not have an unlimited budget and would really like to keep the M2C, because it is such a great daily.

718 GTS 4.0
- truly the value bunch because it enables me to replicate the feel of the GT cars for the most part. In terms of driving experience, all reviewers have said there is hardly a difference on the road. I also love that for about $100K, I can get the full buckets and some comfort features. But it does lack some of "specialness" I mentioned earlier. But it may be rectified by speccing Python green to add some uniqueness. However, I would be saving ~$15K compared to the GT4. That may be inconsequential for some. But I still think it is an amount that does take some reflection.


So where I'm I now? I flip between the two 718 variants daily. So who knows and maybe your journey will help me think through mine 😂
The '21 718 GTS 4.0 is special. Special is a slippery slope. Some will argue nothing less than a GT3 is special. The only time you are ever going to be disappointed with a '21 718 GTS is sitting in front of your computer screen looking at car forums or on the throne reading R&T. I doubt very much you would be disappointed when behind the wheel. You mention that you do not intend to track, so the tradeoffs that would come with a GT4 may not be worth it. This goes double if you are going to sell the M2C and this is going to be your daily. All that said, don't buy something you are not fully satisfied with, that's just going to cost you more in the end.
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      11-23-2020, 08:24 PM   #40
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Whatever you get, just make sure it is what YOU want . . . other than that, you cannot go wrong with Porsche.

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      11-23-2020, 08:26 PM   #41
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Also NorCal sunset orange.. welcome to the club!
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      11-23-2020, 08:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
I am in a similar boat to you, Garage. The Porsche allure has gotten me again and I have been debating between the GT4/Spyder as well as the 4.0 GTS, potentially the 992 C2S and even the 992 Carrera T! (Which most likely won't be out until the last two years of the 992 lifecycle if history is any indication.

So here are my thoughts. Let me preface by saying I do not have an unlimited budget and would really like to keep the M2C, because it is such a great daily.

718 GTS 4.0
- truly the value bunch because it enables me to replicate the feel of the GT cars for the most part. In terms of driving experience, all reviewers have said there is hardly a difference on the road. I also love that for about $100K, I can get the full buckets and some comfort features. But it does lack some of "specialness" I mentioned earlier. But it may be rectified by speccing Python green to add some uniqueness. However, I would be saving ~$15K compared to the GT4. That may be inconsequential for some. But I still think it is an amount that does take some reflection.


So where I'm I now? I flip between the two 718 variants daily. So who knows and maybe your journey will help me think through mine 😂
The '21 718 GTS 4.0 is special. Special is a slippery slope. Some will argue nothing less than a GT3 is special. The only time you are ever going to be disappointed with a '21 718 GTS is sitting in front of your computer screen looking at car forums or on the throne reading R&T. I doubt very much you would be disappointed when behind the wheel. You mention that you do not intend to track, so the tradeoffs that would come with a GT4 may not be worth it. This goes double if you are going to sell the M2C and this is going to be your daily. All that said, don't buy something you are not fully satisfied with, that's just going to cost you more in the end.
Thanks for the wise words. I do plan on keeping the M2C as long as I don't go to the 992 route. Therefore, I am okay with a car being somewhat compromised as even with the GTS, I plan to get the carbon buckets. But the reason why I don't know if the GTS will do enough Justin is because in a way, it is similar on road to the M2C. Just look at ///AVM, a diehard Porsche fan that actually sold his 718 GTS and is completely happy with the M2C. That is such a rare move for a Porsche geek 😉.

I worry that this will become my fate and I will end up selling one of them. And to be quite honest, the M2C is phenomenal and just like AVM, that may be the keeper! The M series is designed to be sporty, but not an all consuming sports car. And that is actual the true value of M. It is not trying to be an all out track machine.

Anyways, this could be debated for pages and like I have understood from you post, you honestly can't go wrong with either. Regardless, really love your thoughts and if you have more to share, I'm sure we're all excited to listen
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      11-23-2020, 11:31 PM   #43
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Also NorCal sunset orange.. welcome to the club!
763m wheels look so good on m2/m3
That is titan7 btw they do have very similar spoke design though.
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      11-24-2020, 01:56 AM   #44
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I'm leaning towards a new 718 Spyder or GT4 with money set aside for gearing. The sweet spot maybe a 718 manual GTS 4.0 as I get the powerplant minus GT3 front end with the convenientent softtop which is more functional than the Spyder's manual top. Plus you can get bucket seats in the GTS 4.0 but man that Spyder is the cats meow.

I'm a bit mad about cars so I'm trying not to got to the 'stealership' and enjoy the cars I already own for the moment. But my ultimate dream car has been a Porsche, so I'm not ruling out a low mileage 911 C4S but could only afford the mid engine platform new.

Need to sit with it for a while and decide which one to pursue based on how I would use the car. That would determine which platform and transmission to select. Thoughts?
You have done some homework, so you are off to a good start. You are setting aside money for gearing, so that tells me you are aware it is too tall. You have picked the models with NA engines, and the 718 steering is better than 981. And I agree the GTS is the sweet spot. Having said that, you are throwing me a bit with the 911 C4S. That drives a LOT different than a lighter, RWD, boxster. After driving both you should end up with a strong preference for one versus the other. Also, although many now feel that the cayman/boxster are better drivers cars than 911s (aside from the GTs), you need to be honest with yourself about whether anything other than a 911 will do.

Sounds like you need to scratch the itch so good luck!
Spyder GT4 is epic in looks and performance. Plus the feel of driving an open top car is amazing. 911 would not be my 1st preference but I wouldn't rule that out after being on the track in one. I just loved the engine and gearing in that plus GT touring and comfort would be a nice plus. But the more I reflect the more the GT4/Spyder/GTs 4.0 call out to me. I can see that being more enjoyable with the balance and price point of the Cayman platform. Thanks for some chiming in. I appreciate it.
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