[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by pz619

I looked at the link and that drain bolt is not the same design. The one my car came with was just a simple 17mm bolt (I think it was 17). Doesn't require a hex key to remove. Wonder why that is different, I'm sure it'll work though assuming the threading is identical.

Yeah, I saw that too. Sometimes the photos are not correct...who knows.

[Tag]

S55 Oil Drain Plug

Engine Type: S55 Oil drain plug to magnesium oil sump. - Drain Plug Thread: M16x1.5 - Tightening specifications: Replace oil drain plug and gasket (sealing ring). - Torque: 20Nm

Engine Type: S55 Oil drain plug on aluminum oil sump. - Drain Plug Thread: M12x1.5 - Tightening specifications: Replace only the gasket (sealing ring) of oil drain plug. - Torque: 25Nm

[aerokubectl]

Originally Posted by chmura

It’s not engineers making these decisions its more marketing and bean counters making decisions rather than an engineering judgement. Manufacturers try to compete with each other thus they have to do the same thing as others, plus epa cracking down, using zero weight FE oil in hot climates, saving costs on free oil changes, etc.

That’s why I’m changing my engine oil very soon because I don’t want the FE zero weight oil in my engine.

So is the whole breakin thing marketing as well? I'm just trying to understand where im supposed to trust BMW.

[devo]

Originally Posted by spetsnazos

So is the whole breakin thing marketing as well? I'm just trying to understand where im supposed to trust BMW.

[chmura]

Originally Posted by spetsnazos

So is the whole breakin thing marketing as well? I'm just trying to understand where im supposed to trust BMW.

After VW and other manufactures caught cheating with the emission scandal. No I will not trust a any car manufacturer at all. Part of the whole cheating scandal is competition itself to compete with other manufacturers fuel economy numbers, etc.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by chmura

It’s not engineers making these decisions its more marketing and bean counters making decisions rather than an engineering judgement. Manufacturers try to compete with each other thus they have to do the same thing as others, plus epa cracking down, using zero weight FE oil in hot climates, saving costs on free oil changes, etc.

That’s why I’m changing my engine oil very soon because I don’t want the FE zero weight oil in my engine.

You do know that SAE 0 is a particular viscosity curve, not a single value, right? A 0w-anything is still heavier at 0C than at operating temperature. A 0w cold is more ideal, not less, for every application. If you live in a climate where it’s 80C outside then feel free to run a straight 30 or 40. The only way your complaint would be legitimate is if you felt the operating temp viscosity was too low (30 instead of 40 or 50).

There is really no advantage to running a 5w-30 vs 0w-30 other than cost or maybe shear stability. At 100C the viscosity is going to be nearly identical.

As always, the real truth is complicated - sometimes decisions are against the wish of the engineers, but you can't make a blanket statement.

[M2CLBB437M]

Seems like NOONE is leaving changes as recommended intervals. Is there anyone NOT doing interim changes?

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by chris719

You do know that SAE 0 is a particular viscosity curve, not a single value, right? A 0w-anything is still heavier at 0C than at operating temperature. A 0w cold is more ideal, not less, for every application. If you live in a climate where it’s 80C outside then feel free to run a straight 30 or 40. The only way your complaint would be legitimate is if you felt the operating temp viscosity was too low (30 instead of 40 or 50).

There is really no advantage to running a 5w-30 vs 0w-30 other than cost or maybe shear stability. At 100C the viscosity is going to be nearly identical.

As always, the real truth is complicated - sometimes decisions are against the wish of the engineers, but you can't make a blanket statement.

Yes well said.

As the w weights are cold cranking at -40 or something. The hot rating is at 100degC.

And they vary with temp in between of course on a curve.

So a 0W at -40 will be thicker than a 5W at -10. If you don't have mega low temps in winter then you don't really need the full benefit of a 0W. Then at 100deg a 5w30 or a 0w30 or a 10w30 will all be nearly the same.

For me there are more high perfornance Ester based full synthetic oils available at 5W-30 than 0W-30.

I'm not interested in BMW LLx sponsorship / approval as i don't want a long life oil.

[doug_999]

All, if yow want to do it early, go for it. But reach out to Blackstone Labs and get a free oil analysis kit
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/prod...ree-test-kits/

Fill it up and send in (along with $28) and then post your results. Consider paying the extra $10 for the TBN test as well.

Then we can stop this guessing game.

[FalconUSAF]

I was a forum member back in 2002-2009 (2002 M3) and numerous board members sent their oil to Blackstone. The results typically showed that oil would start breaking down at 6k miles. Of course, different engine, oil capacity and oil type (10 - 60 weight)

[Economatic]

Good information here. I used to be rather exuberant about oil changes and did them around 3,000-4,000 miles on all my cars. But in recent years I don't have a lot of time to DIY or deal with dropping off and picking up cars to get serviced. I've been following the recommended intervals in the manuals for normal driving, more frequent for hard driving and cold weather, and an oil change and filter before a track day. It sounds like that's in line what you guys are saying.

Questions...

• What about using a fluid extractor instead of messing with drain plug to drop the oil? Will that work with the S55? I know some engines you can do that, others you can't.
• What are your thoughts on changing just the oil and not the filter before a track day?

[devo]

Originally Posted by Economatic

Good information here. I used to be rather exuberant about oil changes and did them around 3,000-4,000 miles on all my cars. But in recent years I don't have a lot of time to DIY or deal with dropping off and picking up cars to get serviced. I've been following the recommended intervals in the manuals for normal driving, more frequent for hard driving and cold weather, and an oil change and filter before a track day. It sounds like that's in line what you guys are saying.

Questions...

• What about using a fluid extractor instead of messing with drain plug to drop the oil? Will that work with the S55? I know some engines you can do that, others you can't.
• What are your thoughts on changing just the oil and not the filter before a track day?

I cannot imagine an oil extractor removing nearly as much oil as removing the plug. DIY changes are easy so why mess with an extractor. I'd rather pay retail for a proper change. I'd also change the filter every time when changing the oil; interim track day change or not...

[doughboy]

Never change oil without new filter IMO.

Those oil extractor's are prett good, but they need to push a pipe down the dipstick tube to get to the sump, but as S55 has no dipstick there is no easy way to get a extraction hose to the sump.

[doug_999]

I'll add one comment, just to stir things up - I bet those that do the oil change early are also the ones that follow the BMW break-in recommendations

Funny how the "BMW engineers" can know so much and yet so little

[FalconUSAF]

Good point -- guess I should have done break-in service at 600 mi 😎? Actually, my SA is proponent of going past the 1,200 mi. Wonder how the engineers came up with 1,200 mi. Does anyone know if break-in oil is different than standard 0-30 weight? Any special additives etc?

[devo]

Originally Posted by FalconUSAF

Good point -- guess I should have done break-in service at 600 mi ��? Actually, my SA is proponent of going past the 1,200 mi. Wonder how the engineers came up with 1,200 mi. Does anyone know if break-in oil is different than standard 0-30 weight? Any special additives etc?

The break in service mileage has been discussed in other threads. You need 900 miles before they will or should perform the service. 600 miles is most definitely too soon. I would not wait much beyond the 1,200 mile mark and only if necessary. BMW certainly has a recommendation as to how many miles past 1,200 one can or should go. Disrespect not intended towards your SA, but I do not have faith in most of them. Personally, I wouldn't go beyond it and didn't; 1003 miles for me.

I do not think a special break in oil is used... however, if it was leave it in for the mileage the manufacturer recommends.

I'm sure BMW engineers just guessed at 1,200 miles

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Tag

S55 Oil Drain Plug

Engine Type: S55 Oil drain plug to magnesium oil sump. - Drain Plug Thread: M16x1.5 - Tightening specifications: Replace oil drain plug and gasket (sealing ring). - Torque: 20Nm

Engine Type: S55 Oil drain plug on aluminum oil sump. - Drain Plug Thread: M12x1.5 - Tightening specifications: Replace only the gasket (sealing ring) of oil drain plug. - Torque: 25Nm

Thanks for the info.

You believe when you take your car in for an oil change at the dealer, they replaced the sealing ring also. I never seen it invoiced but the SA claim that they do replace it :

I used to have this problem at the Acura dealers because they look at me like a douche, when I supply them with my own oil drain plug crush gasket, at the time of my oil change, to ensure it was changed.

I'm not really anal but just thorough because I don't like dealing with blowbacks by silly mistakes that humans make

[aerokubectl]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I'll add one comment, just to stir things up - I bet those that do the oil change early are also the ones that follow the BMW break-in recommendations

Funny how the "BMW engineers" can know so much and yet so little

Appeal to authority when it supports your viewpoint never fails haha

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Thanks for the info.

You believe when you take your car in for an oil change at the dealer, they replaced the sealing ring also. I never seen it invoiced but the SA claim that they do replace it :

I used to have this problem at the Acura dealers because they look at me like a douche, when I supply them with my own oil drain plug crush gasket, at the time of my oil change, to ensure it was changed.

I'm not really anal but just thorough because I don't like dealing with blowbacks by silly mistakes that humans make

Totally agree. I don't trust anyone. I've been lied to, falsely told things were done that were not, etc. so many times that I'm jaded. Let them all think I'm a douche, but the irony is that's a very douchey mentality to have. Most recent example was I was getting winter tires removed and summers put on my DD. The shop I went to was using floorjacks without anything else, the jacks were just bare metal that would crush the BMW plastic guides. Put a stop to them doing anything, said I'd be back as I ran over to the local sports store to buy four hockey pucks. When I got back I was that guy, watching their every move, didn't GAF what they thought. They then realized that I was simply being protective of my property and not being difficult by requesting things are done right. When they completed the work and I tipped them all and they realized I'm not that bad.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by devo

I'm sure BMW engineers just guessed at 1,200 miles

I always thought it was because the EU average mileage per year has been 12,000miles / 20,000km for years and years.

So 10% of 12000 is 1200 miles, simple. I'm sure it's just a one-distance-fits-all-guess.

Mine was run in after 400 or 500 brisk miles to get the rings bedded, that's it. But ended up waiting to 1000 miles to get the oil out which was more about spare time than anything else.

[mikeahso]

My car does only track mileage. I store it at the track, so don't even have to drive it there or trailer it.

Based on my previous cars I've used in similar manner, I expect to do <3000kms a year.

General rule of thumb in my circles is that track usage is AT LEAST 10x harder on the car as commuting is. Given my car will only see this usage, I use the factory service intervals divided by 10; for all maintenance.

When I competed in the local drifting series, my car didn't have the OEM odometer. So I just counted tanks of fuel. Oil change every 5 tanks of fuel. This was similar to what others adopted. Some did less often, generally those who ran stock motors with bolt ons; bought another core engine when the current popped. Others changed more frequently, usually higher budget motors / builds. My oil came out used, but not filthy. A service every 5 tanks of fuel, is thereabouts the same as OEM service schedule / 10.

My M2C is a 2 - 3 year car. I'm not sure what I'll get next, 2 - 3 years to decide! When I go to sell / trade it, it's critical to me that it appear as a low mileage, original, near mint example; to maximise residual. Although I have a warranty, I don't plan on running 1000 lap old oil, warranty or not; that's just careless.

If my M2C was a forever / long term hold car, I would adopt the same strategy purely for the emotional satisfaction of keeping something pristine. The M2C isn't that car, but a CSL could be...

If my M2C was a daily, 2-3 year car, 20,000kms a year, low/no track usage, I'd just stick to the maintenance schedule as my residual will be governed, so pointless to me to increase cost of ownership. This is exactly how I look at my Subaru Outback (my daily).

[FalconUSAF]

Originally Posted by devo

The break in service mileage has been discussed in other threads. You need 900 miles before they will or should perform the service. 600 miles is most definitely too soon. I would not wait much beyond the 1,200 mile mark and only if necessary. BMW certainly has a recommendation as to how many miles past 1,200 one can or should go. Disrespect not intended towards your SA, but I do not have faith in most of them. Personally, I wouldn't go beyond it and didn't; 1003 miles for me.

I do not think a special break in oil is used... however, if it was leave it in for the mileage the manufacturer recommends.

I'm sure BMW engineers just guessed at 1,200 miles

My SA has serviced all my BMWs (4) since 2003. His customer service skills are superior/impeccable, but you are probably correct. He's not really a "motorhead"/enthusiast like us on this forum. I will ask him to explain why he thinks going past 1,200 is better. My odometer was right on 1,200 when I pulled in for service (yeah, I know, anal me!)😎👍👌