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      11-11-2020, 10:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
you mean huge difference in a good way and MP4S is better than MPSS?
Yes!
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      11-11-2020, 10:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kankles View Post
Robin,

FG wheels look rad.

I've ordered some black 763 and have been contemplating getting them painted similar to the APEX anthracite color prior to fitting (probably Toyota color Phantom Grey Pearl 1E3).

Where in NL did you get them painted and are you happy with paint quality? I know a place in Waddinxveen close to me that does decent work as well.

Finally, for your MHD tune, did you have to have it bench flashed or are you "pre ECU lockout"? Any troubles from the dealer with the tune?
Thanks.

I also have the 19 "Apexes but they are more 'white'.
I got those in the pics painted @ ABS De Boer overhere in Heerenveen, Friesland, where I live.
They work with my car dealership.
Good quality.

MHD: My car is pre ECU -unlocked so I was lucky. I did the flashing last august and last september I had to come in for my first service(2 year interval) and my dealer stated they had some software update. I told them please not to, because of my tune. So they didn't update the software. I have a very close relationship with my dealer i must say. That helps a lot.

Cheers
Robin
Many thanks!
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      11-11-2020, 03:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Just got them fitted this morning.
They're less noisy and a tad more comfy, turn in at normal speeds on wet is alright, but I've only driven 15km(<10 miles) with it.






Cheers
Robin
That gap though. Still on shipping blocks?
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      11-11-2020, 03:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kankles View Post
Robin,

FG wheels look rad.
Agreed, i hate the 2-tone on the 788's, painting them a single color seems to help, no matter which color is chosen.
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      11-12-2020, 03:18 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
That gap though. Still on shipping blocks?


This is the Dakar version.

Overhere in the old country we don't have paved roads yet. All horses & cariages here

I'm terrible at taking pictures with my iPhone sorry.

The car's stance is oem/stock:


This morning I drove around for about half an hour in terrible weather, pouring rain, 9 degrees Celsius.

Braking on wet asphalt : Excellent, out of this world, almost incredible, not kidding. But hey, I drove my former PSS for 2 years and they were worn out, so new PSS should feel alright as well, but the brake-bite :
Defying physics in the rain imho.

Traction/problems: Same story, almost non existent (relatively off course) in the rain when not pushing it off course. 75% throttle in the rain: No sweat at all. (500HP/700Nm)

The tyre feels a tad more comfy , but less noisy, maybe a tiny bit.

Steering on highway speeds is ok in the rain, it feels a tad less pointy but no understeer until now

Very very good replacement tyre vs OEM PSS, the PS4S.

Cheers
Robin
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      11-12-2020, 03:32 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
Just put them on the rear and the wheel hop is significant.




I had a lot of annoying wheelhop on my former 1M on OEM PS2s.

I changed them to Pirelli P Zeros and wheelhop was gone.

Cheers
Robin
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      11-18-2020, 11:43 AM   #29
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I went one step wider in front and rear and switched to PS4S, I like them better. Hold traction better, less road noise.

A bit uglier though, very boxy looking tires.
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      11-18-2020, 12:51 PM   #30
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Daily drive is fine, nice wet performance. But! If you want take the car to track, don't try ps4s and go ahead to use cup2.
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      11-19-2020, 12:40 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butraymond View Post
Daily drive is fine, nice wet performance. But! If you want take the car to track, don't try ps4s and go ahead to use cup2.
I used PS4S's on the track as well (other car, not M2), and I don't have this problem, they seem to hold up pretty well.
Based on the photo, If I was guessing (that's all I could do from the info I have), I am thinking that your pressures are too low (evident from sidewall scuffing) and possibly, your driving style is too aggressive, and needs to be smoothened out a bit (chopping of the edge blocks).
Just guesses on my part, but that's all I got, lol.
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      11-19-2020, 04:54 AM   #32
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That looks like a tire that was abused heavily due to driving "over the top of the peak" of the Fc vs slip angle line. Most likely it was a car someone was driving with DSC enabled and they were putting in way too much steering lock and letting DSC reign things in. With the proper pressures, DSC fully off, driving to the limit of the tire, but not over, severely overheating the tread like that isn't nearly the issue shown in this example. Under the same abuse, a full on track tire would show similar issues...heck the cords would be showing on an R7, lol.
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      11-19-2020, 02:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
That looks like a tire that was abused heavily due to driving "over the top of the peak" of the Fc vs slip angle line. Most likely it was a car someone was driving with DSC enabled and they were putting in way too much steering lock and letting DSC reign things in. With the proper pressures, DSC fully off, driving to the limit of the tire, but not over, severely overheating the tread like that isn't nearly the issue shown in this example. Under the same abuse, a full on track tire would show similar issues...heck the cords would be showing on an R7, lol.
Would camber plates help avoid that abuse to the outside edges? Oddly my worst wear on the PSS was the inner edge of the outer blocks. Not the very outside edge.
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      11-19-2020, 03:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard in NC View Post
Would camber plates help avoid that abuse to the outside edges? Oddly my worst wear on the PSS was the inner edge of the outer blocks. Not the very outside edge.
Yes, definitely if camber is set to -2.5 or so. However, I still believe the majority of the severe overheating shown in that above example was a relatively inexperienced driver using DSC/MDM nanny and using way too much steering lock. Instead: use DSC fully off, drive it to the limit but not beyond of the tire's tractive force peak = much longer tire life, less tire punishment/destruction.

With camber plates, if you run near zero front toe (just a tad bit of toe-in for street use), you will not wear the inside edges excessively btw, even with -2.5 camber. However, the car will like to tramline more as you go more and more negative on camber.
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      11-19-2020, 05:47 PM   #35
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I've done multiple track days with PS4S tires and no camber plates, and I've never seen tire wear like that. What PSIs are you running between sessions?
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      11-20-2020, 07:45 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Yes, definitely if camber is set to -2.5 or so. However, I still believe the majority of the severe overheating shown in that above example was a relatively inexperienced driver using DSC/MDM nanny and using way too much steering lock. Instead: use DSC fully off, drive it to the limit but not beyond of the tire's tractive force peak = much longer tire life, less tire punishment/destruction.
I used to be much harder on tires at track days than I am today. Big heavy cars (E39 M5, F10 M5, and especially my M550i) didn't help.

One big difference with the M2C is the immediate and obvious benefit reducing steering lock at corner exit. VIR turns 1-2 and CMP 12-13 are perfect examples where I seem to really gain on cars when reducing steering lock and dramatically reducing push to the outside line.
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      11-20-2020, 10:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Yes, definitely if camber is set to -2.5 or so. However, I still believe the majority of the severe overheating shown in that above example was a relatively inexperienced driver using DSC/MDM nanny and using way too much steering lock. Instead: use DSC fully off, drive it to the limit but not beyond of the tire's tractive force peak = much longer tire life, less tire punishment/destruction.

With camber plates, if you run near zero front toe (just a tad bit of toe-in for street use), you will not wear the inside edges excessively btw, even with -2.5 camber. However, the car will like to tramline more as you go more and more negative on camber.
I agree with you on how the tire damage occurred, but I DON'T agree with you telling someone who obviously needs more training with track driving to turn off DCS and MDM! I think he's better off screwing up his tires rather than putting the car into a spin, or into a wall.
The best thing he can do, is drive with an instructor to improve his smoothness, and to pay attention to physics to know when the electronics are saving his butt, then the tire will also hold up better. I'm thinking that those tires should be good for at least 4 to 6 track days if driven properly.
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      11-20-2020, 11:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Up4speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Yes, definitely if camber is set to -2.5 or so. However, I still believe the majority of the severe overheating shown in that above example was a relatively inexperienced driver using DSC/MDM nanny and using way too much steering lock. Instead: use DSC fully off, drive it to the limit but not beyond of the tire's tractive force peak = much longer tire life, less tire punishment/destruction.

With camber plates, if you run near zero front toe (just a tad bit of toe-in for street use), you will not wear the inside edges excessively btw, even with -2.5 camber. However, the car will like to tramline more as you go more and more negative on camber.
I agree with you on how the tire damage occurred, but I DON'T agree with you telling someone who obviously needs more training with track driving to turn off DCS and MDM! I think he's better off screwing up his tires rather than putting the car into a spin, or into a wall.
The best thing he can do, is drive with an instructor to improve his smoothness, and to pay attention to physics to know when the electronics are saving his butt, then the tire will also hold up better. I'm thinking that those tires should be good for at least 4 to 6 track days if driven properly.
That was at summit point Shenandoah circuit. After first session, I set the tire pressure at og spec, 32 psi hot front, 35 rear. The car was 435xi with sport model, MDM.
New to hpde and definitely need to work on smoothness.
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      11-21-2020, 05:26 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Up4speed View Post
I agree with you on how the tire damage occurred, but I DON'T agree with you telling someone who obviously needs more training with track driving to turn off DCS and MDM! I think he's better off screwing up his tires rather than putting the car into a spin, or into a wall.
The best thing he can do, is drive with an instructor to improve his smoothness, and to pay attention to physics to know when the electronics are saving his butt, then the tire will also hold up better. I'm thinking that those tires should be good for at least 4 to 6 track days if driven properly.
Well, it wasn't specific advice to an individual but more of a statement of how not to destroy a tire by way over doing steering inputs (and having a nanny constantly intervening and therefore "instructing" a novice how to drive extremely poorly).
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      11-21-2020, 08:32 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by wavyyyy View Post
I went one step wider in front and rear and switched to PS4S, I like them better. Hold traction better, less road noise.

A bit uglier though, very boxy looking tires.
so 255 front/275 rear then? That's my plan when my PS2's wear out.
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      11-21-2020, 02:20 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by keylime503 View Post
I'd be shocked if anyone can tell the difference between MPSS and MP4S on the road. You guys are way overstating the differences, MP4S is just the replacement for MPSS.
It's like that with everything. And heaven forbid you question people's opinion. Key word: opinion.

Most folks are going from worn (or nearly worn) PSS to PS4S. So, naturally, there will be some placebo effect towards newer being better, on top of the new tire having better traction because, well, it's newer.

Same goes for suspension systems. People usually go from a worn out suspension to new coilovers and swear on their mother's grave that it's "more compliant". Those who go from new stock suspension to coilovers instantly praise the new system just because it feels different, but in reality there are always tradeoffs at low vs high speeds, over bumps, etc. Fair way to test suspensions would be to compare both with say 10k miles. Same with tires.

I bet that if you surveyed a hundred M2C owners at random with PSS and PS4S back to back, 90 of them wouldn't be able to tell the difference on the street. And those who could wouldn't notice any significant performance improvement.
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      11-21-2020, 03:29 PM   #42
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The MPSS have really stiff sidewalls and the worst part about them is the harsh jolt when going over expansion joints. The MP4S are not as harsh and feel more compliant. Theoretically speaking, a stiffer tire will give you more direct response, but at the expense of comfort. I suspect this is what some are eluding to. This could however be misleading. Sometimes a tire can feel sloppy, but when put to the test it'll put down just as fast if not faster lap times. Even so some don't like "the feel" as it does not inspire confidence.

It's also worth reminding, the MPSS tires for the M2 are bespoke whilst the MP4S are an "off the shelf" general tire. This also plays a factor in how well the tire handles and performs.
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      11-21-2020, 05:35 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
The MPSS have really stiff sidewalls and the worst part about them is the harsh jolt when going over expansion joints. The MP4S are not as harsh and feel more compliant. Theoretically speaking, a stiffer tire will give you more direct response, but at the expense of comfort. I suspect this is what some are eluding to. This could however be misleading. Sometimes a tire can feel sloppy, but when put to the test it'll put down just as fast if not faster lap times. Even so some don't like "the feel" as it does not inspire confidence.

It's also worth reminding, the MPSS tires for the M2 are bespoke whilst the MP4S are an "off the shelf" general tire. This also plays a factor in how well the tire handles and performs.
Interesting thread, and an interesting perspective here. So many here are saying that the PS4S are the successor to the PSS for street driving. Are you suggesting the PSS have stiffer side walls giving better handling but slightly less comfort?
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      11-21-2020, 06:51 PM   #44
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I went from PSS to PZero to PS4S on my F10 M5. So I can't tell you back to back. What I can tell you is the PSS were good wet or dry, street or track, the P Zero sucked and the PS4S were the best I had on the car. I agree the PS4S felt more compliant, maybe slightly less responsiveness, but the PS4S were much better acceleration traction than the P Zero and extremely good on track across a more broad temp range than even the PSS.

PS: I've done some back to back tire comparison drives with Michelin tires at various events and I can tell you for certain the differences in the tires demonstrated at those events in just the 3 laps you'd get. Especially against competitors. Mostly in parking lot autocross courses so the tires were pushed beyond normal street driving. And determined the PS4S to be an incredibly good street and track tire.
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