[AmuroRay]

The results look good - now you'll need to actually run it on the track. How does the WGDC look?
When it comes to cooling, I guess there is no replacement for size.

[ZM2]

GerardzM your eyes were not deceiving you!

You do have to use the M235i brace. The guys cut the ends off the stock M2 brace to connect the lower pieces for additional bracing.

About to take her for a drive!

[ZM2]

So, I got to drive for about 45min in stop & go traffic and a little on the interstate.

I couldn't get any worthwhile logs b/c of traffic, but throttle response/lag is definitely better. I'm guessing that's a combo effect of the Turbosmart BOV, Pure Inlet, and Evo3. Def enjoying that benefit while driving.

I did watch temps on my BM3 dashboard during my drive. Ambient was 90F, and during slow stop & go traffic the Evo3 did the typical fin/tube behavior where IATs would go 40F higher than ambient while stopped/sitting in traffic, but drop fast to 15F above ambient as soon as you accelerated.

Then I was able to get a couple good WOT pulls on the interstate and temps stayed at 20F above ambient and never increased under load ito 5th.

So, very unscientific at this point, but initial thoughts are IATs will be better in slow stop & go traffic with a cooled off bar/plate IC, altho I'm curious if those IC's handle stop & go traffic any better once hot. More importantly, if I can keep IATs stable and only 20F higher than ambient on a hot day while under constant load, I'll take that advantage for track driving.

I need to switch to my E30 and E45 fuel & tunes, and then I'll get some good pulls/logs later this week for everyone to take a look at.

[F87source]

Holy cow that's a monster intercooler

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

So, I got to drive for about 45min in stop & go traffic and a little on the interstate.

I couldn't get any worthwhile logs b/c of traffic, but throttle response/lag is definitely better. I'm guessing that's a combo effect of the Turbosmart BOV, Pure Inlet, and Evo3. Def enjoying that benefit while driving.

Please post logs of target boost/boost and WGDC if and when you can. It would interesting to see how much breathing has improved.

Originally Posted by ZM2

I did watch temps on my BM3 dashboard during my drive. Ambient was 90F, and during slow stop & go traffic the Evo3 did the typical fin/tube behavior where IATs would go 40F higher than ambient while stopped/sitting in traffic, but drop fast to 15F above ambient as soon as you accelerated.

Then I was able to get a couple good WOT pulls on the interstate and temps stayed at 20F above ambient and never increased under load ito 5th.

So, very unscientific at this point, but initial thoughts are IATs will be better in slow stop & go traffic with a cooled off bar/plate IC, altho I'm curious if those IC's handle stop & go traffic any better once hot. More importantly, if I can keep IATs stable and only 20F higher than ambient on a hot day while under constant load, I'll take that advantage for track driving.

I need to switch to my E30 and E45 fuel & tunes, and then I'll get some good pulls/logs later this week for everyone to take a look at.

That's not the conclusion you should be drawing from this comparison.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=15

The ATM and EVO 2 are very close in size, but the Evo is 18lbs, and the ATM is 24lbs. They cool down at a same rate, despite the extra mass carried by the Bar and Plate ATM.

This means that thermal momentum is likely not a thing when we are talking about one intercooler to another - they all cool down at the same rate. This is shown in 2 previous comparisons we have.

I'm more curious on how effective the fan/shroud is if the IATs are going up 150* in stop and go traffic.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Please post logs of target boost/boost and WGDC if and when you can. It would interesting to see how much breathing has improved.



That's not the conclusion you should be drawing from this comparison.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=15

The ATM and EVO 2 are very close in size, but the Evo is 18lbs, and the ATM is 24lbs. They cool down at a same rate, despite the extra mass carried by the Bar and Plate ATM.

This means that thermal momentum is likely not a thing when we are talking about one intercooler to another - they all cool down at the same rate. This is shown in 2 previous comparisons we have.

I'm more curious on how effective the fan/shroud is if the IATs are going up 150* in stop and go traffic.

In the example you sent over the Evo2 is shedding more heat during a specific time period—the delta bn its high/low temps during a driving event is greater. That’s not a good thing in this case bc the Evo2 temps start higher and never get lower than the ATM, but it is dropping more degrees over the same period of time.

What we really need to progress this conversation is more track data with tuned N55’s and the various intercoolers.

The ATM showed an almost 30F increase over ambient on track while the Evo2 was almost 40F.

Evo3 is looking ~20F, but we really need to push it and get logs to find out. Plus, the ambient IAT delta comparison bn my car and someone else’s doesn’t really work bc I would see even higher IAT deltas on track with my Evo2 (50-55F), indicating a higher state of tune or driving aggression.

I’ve only seen anecdotal track feedback on the VRSF (no logs), and some say 10F and some say 30F delta over ambient on track. We need someone to do some real logs so we can compare.

Anyways, this all just highlights why intercooler comparisons are also fraught with issues. Has to be same car, same temps, same driver, etc, to get any kind of meaningful data and I’m not planning to rip the Evo3 out and plug the VRSF in—I’ll look at its data with a grain of salt, tho, if anyone has some.

And to confuse this even further, we all have different priorities, e.g., for me IATs aren’t everything. Obviously we need to get them under control for each of our driving habits, but I’m happy to give up a few degrees to not impact lag and carrying around more weight that isn’t as securely fastened. Let’s see what the Evo3 data say this weekend, who knows, maybe it’ll be the best in all categories. Maybe not.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

In the example you sent over the Evo2 is shedding more heat during a specific time period—the delta bn its high/low temps during a driving event is greater. That’s not a good thing in this case bc the Evo2 temps start higher and never get lower than the ATM, but it is dropping more degrees over the same period of time.

That's not correct.
It deleted my whole reply, but that is not the correct conclusion to come to - it's not based off the data presented and it doesn't make sense (in terms of physics)

But I agree with you on the need for more testing, especially in a track environment

[ZM2]

Alright, here are some logs on the first version of my E45 Jordan Tuned map. The map itself feels similar to OTS Stg 2 E30, so we'll amp it up in coming revisions. I'll limit my comments in this thread to just IATs.

In general, the Evo3 stays ~20F above ambient when rolling around town or just cruising, and ~25-35F if you're in traffic or stop & go. But, it drops to ~15F above ambient as soon as you accelerate or go WOT, and temps remain stable thru 5th gear. Examples:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...0b432aeba26ce8
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...729b0f2d41897e

Here's a similar pull where I was in traffic before pulling out for clean air and doing a pull. Ambient/IAT delta starts at 35F, but drops to 19F thru 4th gear:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...90c61ca6d7fd52

And here are some back to back 3-4 pulls with hard braking in between. Ambient/IAT delta drops to 16F in the first 3-4 pull and increases to 26F after the 7th pull. This compares to a 50F ambient/IAT delta increase with my Evo2 in back to back pulls (second link):

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...729b0ea9b3c476
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d72...90c6192c630438

Overall, it's interesting how this IC behaves. Ambient/IAT delta when driving normally isn't anything to write home about, but isn't bad either. But, when under load the Evo3's ability to shed heat and keep the ambient/IAT delta in check is pretty impressive, especially into 5th gear.

How it will perform on a hot track day is still an open question. Altho, from previous experience I can say that my method of back-to-back street pulls and hard braking are pretty taxing and just about as taxing (temp wise) as when I'm on track. As SeanWRT once said, my street logs highlight the excellent stopping power of my AP Racing BBK.

It would be great if someone with a CSF, VRSF Race, or other IC would post similar back to back pulls to see how IATs hold up over time. In CSF and VRSF’s posted charts (where they’re obviously going to pick good looking data), the CSF is 20F above ambient after a single 3-4-5 pull (starts 20F above ambient similar to the Evo3) and the VRSF is 11F above ambient after a single 2-3-4 pull (starts 14F above ambient). We need multiple back to back 3-4-5 pulls of these to see how they manage a real workout, not single pulls.

In lieu of having back to back pull data from all the IC’s, the Evo3 and CSF have similar starting temp deltas and IAT temp drop when beginning a pull, but the Evo3 keeps temps stable thru 5th, while IATs with the CSF begin to increase a decent bit (~10F).

As for the heavy brick VRSF Race (which has added pressure drop), we need more data. A single 2-3-4 pull isn’t enough to compare against. It’s pre-pull temp delta looks better, but we need to see how it heats up on a 3-4-5 pull, and then back to back pulls to get a good comparison. At the rate IATs are increasing in 4th in their 2-3-4 pull, its ambient/IAT delta could be as large or larger than the Evo3 when going all the way thru 5th. All speculative for now, tho.

Lastly, I didn’t have room to wring it out thru 5th on each pull like I wanted, so I’ll do try to do that as I get tune revisions so we can see how things hold up as I’m really taxing the car.

Either way, I'm pretty stoked about the Evo3 and what looks to be good WOT IAT management during back to back pulls from an IC that doesn't increase lag, doesn't weight 40lbs, and that mounts securely to the crash bumper.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Alright, here are some logs on the first version of my E45 Jordan Tuned map. The map itself feels similar to OTS Stg 2 E30, so we'll amp it up in coming revisions. I'll limit my comments in this thread to just IATs.

In general, the Evo3 stays ~20F above ambient when rolling around town or just cruising, and ~25-35F if you're in traffic or stop & go. But, it drops to ~15F above ambient as soon as you accelerate or go WOT, and temps remain stable thru 5th gear. Examples:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...0b432aeba26ce8
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...729b0f2d41897e

Here's a similar pull where I was in traffic before pulling out for clean air and doing a pull. Ambient/IAT delta starts at 35F, but drops to 19F thru 4th gear:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...90c61ca6d7fd52

And here are some back to back 3-4 pulls with hard braking in between. Ambient/IAT delta drops to 16F in the first 3-4 pull and increases to 26F after the 7th pull. This compares to a 50F ambient/IAT delta increase with my Evo2 in back to back pulls (second link):

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...729b0ea9b3c476
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d72...90c6192c630438

Overall, it's interesting how this IC behaves. Ambient/IAT delta when driving normally isn't anything to write home about, but isn't bad either. But, when under load the Evo3's ability to shed heat and keep the ambient/IAT delta in check is pretty impressive, especially into 5th gear.

How it will perform on a hot track day is still an open question. Altho, from previous experience I can say that my method of back-to-back street pulls and hard braking are pretty taxing and just about as taxing (temp wise) as when I'm on track. As SeanWRT once said, my street logs highlight the excellent stopping power of my AP Racing BBK.

It would be great if someone with a CSF, VRSF Race, or other IC would post similar back to back pulls to see how IATs hold up over time. In CSF and VRSF’s posted charts (where they’re obviously going to pick good looking data), the CSF is 20F above ambient after a single 3-4-5 pull (starts 20F above ambient similar to the Evo3) and the VRSF is 11F above ambient after a single 2-3-4 pull (starts 14F above ambient). We need multiple back to back 3-4-5 pulls of these to see how they manage a real workout, not single pulls.

In lieu of having back to back pull data from all the IC’s, the Evo3 and CSF have similar starting temp deltas and IAT temp drop when beginning a pull, but the Evo3 keeps temps stable thru 5th, while IATs with the CSF begin to increase a decent bit (~10F).

As for the heavy brick VRSF Race (which has added pressure drop), we need more data. A single 2-3-4 pull isn’t enough to compare against. It’s pre-pull temp delta looks better, but we need to see how it heats up on a 3-4-5 pull, and then back to back pulls to get a good comparison. At the rate IATs are increasing in 4th in their 2-3-4 pull, its ambient/IAT delta could be as large or larger than the Evo3 when going all the way thru 5th. All speculative for now, tho.

Lastly, I didn’t have room to wring it out thru 5th on each pull like I wanted, so I’ll do try to do that as I get tune revisions so we can see how things hold up as I’m really taxing the car.

Either way, I'm pretty stoked about the Evo3 and what looks to be good WOT IAT management during back to back pulls from an IC that doesn't increase lag, doesn't weight 40lbs, and that mounts securely to the crash bumper.

Thank you for taking the time to test this the Wagner intercooler and share your results

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Thank you for taking the time to test this the Wagner intercooler and share your results

Yes Sir. Thanks for hooking me up with it, my Pure inlet, Turbosmart BOV, aFe filter, and Cary Jordan custom tune, and the fast shipping!

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Yes Sir. Thanks for hooking me up with it and the fast shipping!

My pleasure, do you mind if i share the results on this thread?
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1458121

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

My pleasure, do you mind if i share the results on this thread?
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1458121

Absolutely.

And again, big thanks to our OP GerardzM for being the first to buy an Evo3 from Mike and X-ph, and figuring out how to make this beast fit on the M2!

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Absolutely.

And again, big thanks to our OP GerardzM for being the first to buy an Evo3 from Mike and X-ph, and figuring out how to make this beast fit on the M2!

THank you GerardzM

[ZM2]

Here are some good 3-4-5 pulls with hard braking in between. This is also with revision 1 (18.7psi, 11deg timing) of my Cary Jordan base map (17.2psi, 11deg timing) and it feels like we're making a decent bit more power!

In summary, ambient/IAT delta maintained 16F in the first 3-4 pull and increased to 25F in the longest 5th gear pull. Not bad considering we keep upping the hp on a Stg 2+ E45 map with Dinan turbo. Already requested revision 2!

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee7...0b431db2fb3a94

[ZM2]

Here are some back-to-back 3-4 pulls with 20psi & 10.5deg timing: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5eea...90c62a22b5a513

Ambient/IAT delta is 15F before the pull, drops to 11F in 3rd, climbs to 15F in 4th, didn't have room to get into 5th.

Each successive 3-4 pull only added 1-2F to the ambient/IAT spread.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Alright, here are some logs on the first version of my E45 Jordan Tuned map. The map itself feels similar to OTS Stg 2 E30, so we'll amp it up in coming revisions. I'll limit my comments in this thread to just IATs.

In general, the Evo3 stays ~20F above ambient when rolling around town or just cruising, and ~25-35F if you're in traffic or stop & go. But, it drops to ~15F above ambient as soon as you accelerate or go WOT, and temps remain stable thru 5th gear. Examples:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...0b432aeba26ce8
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...729b0f2d41897e

Here's a similar pull where I was in traffic before pulling out for clean air and doing a pull. Ambient/IAT delta starts at 35F, but drops to 19F thru 4th gear:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee5...90c61ca6d7fd52

And here are some back to back 3-4 pulls with hard braking in between. Ambient/IAT delta drops to 16F in the first 3-4 pull and increases to 26F after the 7th pull. This compares to a 50F ambient/IAT delta increase with my Evo2 in back to back pulls (second link):

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ee4...729b0ea9b3c476
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d72...90c6192c630438

Overall, it's interesting how this IC behaves. Ambient/IAT delta when driving normally isn't anything to write home about, but isn't bad either. But, when under load the Evo3's ability to shed heat and keep the ambient/IAT delta in check is pretty impressive, especially into 5th gear.

How it will perform on a hot track day is still an open question. Altho, from previous experience I can say that my method of back-to-back street pulls and hard braking are pretty taxing and just about as taxing (temp wise) as when I'm on track. As SeanWRT once said, my street logs highlight the excellent stopping power of my AP Racing BBK.

It would be great if someone with a CSF, VRSF Race, or other IC would post similar back to back pulls to see how IATs hold up over time. In CSF and VRSF's posted charts (where they're obviously going to pick good looking data), the CSF is 20F above ambient after a single 3-4-5 pull (starts 20F above ambient similar to the Evo3) and the VRSF is 11F above ambient after a single 2-3-4 pull (starts 14F above ambient). We need multiple back to back 3-4-5 pulls of these to see how they manage a real workout, not single pulls.

In lieu of having back to back pull data from all the IC's, the Evo3 and CSF have similar starting temp deltas and IAT temp drop when beginning a pull, but the Evo3 keeps temps stable thru 5th, while IATs with the CSF begin to increase a decent bit (~10F).

As for the heavy brick VRSF Race (which has added pressure drop), we need more data. A single 2-3-4 pull isn't enough to compare against. It's pre-pull temp delta looks better, but we need to see how it heats up on a 3-4-5 pull, and then back to back pulls to get a good comparison. At the rate IATs are increasing in 4th in their 2-3-4 pull, its ambient/IAT delta could be as large or larger than the Evo3 when going all the way thru 5th. All speculative for now, tho.

Lastly, I didn't have room to wring it out thru 5th on each pull like I wanted, so I'll do try to do that as I get tune revisions so we can see how things hold up as I'm really taxing the car.

Either way, I'm pretty stoked about the Evo3 and what looks to be good WOT IAT management during back to back pulls from an IC that doesn't increase lag, doesn't weight 40lbs, and that mounts securely to the crash bumper.

jeez, good thing you live in Mexico where you can test.

[bimmer ///man]

Any updates? Seems like a well thought out product but perhaps the hands down winner? Looking to pick an intercooler in the next couple weeks

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

Any updates? Seems like a well thought out product but perhaps the hands down winner? Looking to pick an intercooler in the next couple weeks

I actually have about 20 more logs with multiple back to back 3-4 & 3-4-5 pulls in each log bc I’m doing some custom tuning right now.

I haven’t posted any bc we’re still dialing in the tunes, but what I will say is I’m making a decent bit more power than the logs so far in this thread and the ambient/IAT deltas mentioned above haven’t budged, even with going up to 21+ psi and 93F ambient. Pretty impressive so far.

Slow speed around town deltas are still 30-35F, but it drops to 10-15F on the first pull and max’s out ~25F after many back to back pulls. So, if you’re spending most of your time around town and a little on track, a CSF should be enough.

If you’re doing a good bit of tracking in summertime or with a Stg 2, 2+ tune, this looks to be the way to go. It sheds whatever WOT heat you throw at it, mounts solidly to the crash bumper, comes with all the pipes, and there’s no additional lag.

[boldy1]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Talked to my mechanic this morning, and should have my car tomorrow. I threw all the PITA jobs at him (Evo3 mount/fit, turbo inlet, BOV), along with HPFP, oil, plugs, air filter, etc, so they're taking their time.

They were able to cut up the stock radiator brace and reuse it, similar to what is done with the Dinan and other FMIC's, so I hope to have some pics and info on that for you guys.

They were also able to get the Evo3 to fit with my larger CSF DCT cooler that extends down a couple inches lower than the OEM DCT cooler, so that's good news.

Lastly, the foam that's on the bumper that sits between the bumper cover is not used with the Wagner setup b/c of the cutouts in the new crash bumper for additional air flow. Not a biggie, but if someone taps your bumper when they're parallel parking there is a greater risk of cracking the bumper, vs just marking it up. Just an FYI to watch where you park.

Also going to go ahead and get my tune started with Cary Jordan, so lots more to come later this week!

Hi bud I'm new here and still trying to work this out. I got the same setup up as you with the csf radiator and dct cooler the mech who installed mine completely left the support braces out any pictures or help on how I can sort it out and install the brace will be appreciated

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by boldy1

Hi bud I'm new here and still trying to work this out. I got the same setup up as you with the csf radiator and dct cooler the mech who installed mine completely left the support braces out any pictures or help on how I can sort it out and install the brace will be appreciated

Hey there.

You’ll need the M235i Vbrace for the top three brace mounting points.

As for the bottom ones, imagine just getting the lower left and lower right two points cut from the M2 brace. You’re essentially left with two short brace pieces that are used to connect the bottom two bolts on both sides. It doesn’t provide cross bracing (which I doubt is a big deal since several of the larger IC’s call to cut the lower cross bracing anyways), but it gives some support to the bottom.

The CSF DCT cooler was left in as normal, but they put some little standoffs bn the Evo 3 and CSF. I’ll see if I can get some pics.

Btw, great first post. Straight to the CSF rad, DCT cooler, and Evo3!

[boldy1]

Thanks for the hasty reply, its appreciated my car is getting to where I want it.

Any pictures you have will be appreciated

[boldy1]

So got the 235i brace installed was an easy job down to my mate leaving me use his garage after it shut and the guide on here.

Was going to be a ball ache on the ground with the wheels on.

I will have 2 braces made up by a local shop to complete the bracing and save mutilating the standard brace