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      04-28-2020, 11:31 PM   #23
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Wow, lots of useful info here. Great video as well. I have never tracked a car nor do I plan on tracking.

It appears these two are different cars, ZL1 is a higher performance car for fun and M2c is more of a daily driver with less performance. I'm going to try both on Thursday and Friday this week. The problem is the chevy dealers don't let you test drive the ZL1 LE.
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      04-29-2020, 06:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by photorph View Post
Wow, lots of useful info here. Great video as well. I have never tracked a car nor do I plan on tracking.

It appears these two are different cars, ZL1 is a higher performance car for fun and M2c is more of a daily driver with less performance. I'm going to try both on Thursday and Friday this week. The problem is the chevy dealers don't let you test drive the ZL1 LE.
Not really. Fun is an entirely different concept to lap times. As a novice you can easily kill yourself in either. If you aren't used to very fast cars you will find both insane. I'm sure you'll come to the right conclusion for you.
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      04-29-2020, 12:42 PM   #25
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I'm going to try both on Thursday and Friday this week. The problem is the chevy dealers don't let you test drive the ZL1 LE.
I would let your local dealership know that you are serious and will be looking for Camaros at other dealers. If they refuse to test drive, then of course don't shop there. This is their loss. There are PLENTY of dealerships that will let you drive a car that you will be paying them $70K for.
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      04-29-2020, 10:20 PM   #26
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Always funny when someone quotes track times and all these numbers but then confesses to have no intention of tracking the car! Oh the irony!
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      04-30-2020, 02:54 AM   #27
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As a track weapon ZL1 1LE hands down. But if you plan on just daily driving it, it's too much. Why not consider the regular ZL1 for street duty? It's even faster straight line, but much more livable, and still performs well at the track.

The DSSVs on the 1LE along with the hard mounts make it too stiff and jarring for daily use over potholes. They are designed purely for track applications.

The regular SS 1LE is also quicker around the track than M2C, so that may be another good option.

Have you seen the Savage geese review of the 1LE? Might be worth checking out.

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      05-01-2020, 08:35 AM   #28
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At the end of the day, I think there's way more to it than just the performance of the car. Will you even get to use that power and handling on a day to day basis, or is this a track car? If it is a track car, then lap times might be relevant. If it's a street driven car, the feel of the car to YOU is far more important.

I can't say I've driven the ZL1 before, but I would find it very frustrating that I can't use the engine power without going to jail.
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      05-01-2020, 08:42 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
As a track weapon ZL1 1LE hands down. But if you plan on just daily driving it, it's too much. Why not consider the regular ZL1 for street duty? It's even faster straight line, but much more livable, and still performs well at the track.

The DSSVs on the 1LE along with the hard mounts make it too stiff and jarring for daily use over potholes. They are designed purely for track applications.

The regular SS 1LE is also quicker around the track than M2C, so that may be another good option.
I feel like a much more realistic comparison is a an SS 1LE. While the BMW is obviously more expensive, the ZL1 is in another league. The Camaro's already fit some huge rubber from the factory so we all know they're fast, but add on EVEN MORE track spec suspension and aero bits on the ZL1, I don't doubt that it would suck as a daily, or just as a street car in general. A 1 or 2SS with the 1LE means is good street car, but still could hold it's own on the track. It also helps that the SS is significantly cheaper than the M.

OP, go drive everything that's on your list. That's the best way to beat the bias and help you make your choice.
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      05-02-2020, 12:29 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photorph View Post
Wow, lots of useful info here. Great video as well. I have never tracked a car nor do I plan on tracking.

It appears these two are different cars, ZL1 is a higher performance car for fun and M2c is more of a daily driver with less performance. I'm going to try both on Thursday and Friday this week. The problem is the chevy dealers don't let you test drive the ZL1 LE.
I think you are confusing high performance and fun. The two dont always go hand in hand. Theres a reason why so many car reviewers love the BRZ/86. Its under powered as all hell, but its a hoot to drive.

Sure all that horsepower sounds fun, but i feel like you're one of those guys that thinks a fast 0-60 makes for a fast track time. Since you've never been on a track, a lot of what makes a fast lap is actually in the corners. That usually means a rougher ride and more annoyance when you're daily driving the car.

the ZL1 is a higher tuned track focused car, meant to give you the best possible lap. The M2C is a car tuned for the daily drive, but with the ability to get on the track and put down some serious lap times.
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      05-03-2020, 09:41 AM   #31
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I’ve driven a V6 1LE, SS, GT350, and my M2. I can very comfortably tell you that the GT350 is by far the most exciting, the M2 still being more of an all around better experience than the Camaros. The Camaros while great on track lack a certain character the others do. Its not something you can put your finger on and say numerically this or that is better. You will most likely find the same after time behind the wheel. And yes I realize an SS isn’t exactly the same as a ZL1 but more power and tougher suspension wouldnt help its case in getting under my skin.
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      05-04-2020, 08:29 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photorph View Post
Wow, lots of useful info here. Great video as well. I have never tracked a car nor do I plan on tracking.

It appears these two are different cars, ZL1 is a higher performance car for fun and M2c is more of a daily driver with less performance. I'm going to try both on Thursday and Friday this week. The problem is the chevy dealers don't let you test drive the ZL1 LE.
If you're not planning to track your car, the ZL1 might be a lot of car to truly appreciate on the street, yet you'd be giving up the comfort (relative to the camaro) and practicality of the M2. The m2 offers the more "sensible" choice, but when you're heart is set on the power that the camaro offers, and that 6.2L v8, it hard to dismiss it. Imagine yourself choosing the m2. Do you imagine longing for the v8 powered camaro, despite having made the practical choice? If so maybe you should go with the camaro if the alternative means suffering buyer's remorse.
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      05-08-2020, 10:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Yep, just barely lighter than the ZL1 despite being smaller. Pretty sure everyone was aware of this 3 years ago.
Barely? It's about 250-300 pounds lighter. Looking at Car and Driver weights for 6MT's:

M2C: 3561 lbs
SS 1LE: 3773 lbs
Mustang GT PPL2: 3821 lbs
Mustang GT350: 3821 lbs
ZL1 1LE: 3842 lbs

I'm not sure why everyone loves to hate on the M2C's weight. Fact is, there is no other 400 hp+ car with usable back seats that weighs less. M3/M4 are right about the same weight, and that's about as light as it gets.

It's also worth noting, although the M2C is physically smaller than the cars listed above, it has more room in the back and trunk. Credit to the packaging wizards in Munich.

However, as others have said, the ZL1 (and SS 1LE for that matter) are generally on another performance level than the M2C. If that's the priority, you like the styling, and you don't mind the poor visibility, it should be an easy choice.
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      05-09-2020, 08:58 PM   #34
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Yep, well aware of the actual numbers. I was just adding a default response to the constantly brought up M2C weight subject from some of our friends on here. Most cars, short of a few very expensive or massively due for an update cars, have gotten larger and heavier over the years, but somehow the M2C is more at fault for not being made out of tissue paper than every other car on the road. Same thing as all the "BMW has lost its way" threads where every complaint about BMW can be tossed at every other car manufacturer, or nearly so.

Anyway, drive happy everyone. Enjoy what you bought, and if you don't, buy something else.
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      05-10-2020, 11:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Yep, well aware of the actual numbers. I was just adding a default response to the constantly brought up M2C weight subject from some of our friends on here. Most cars, short of a few very expensive or massively due for an update cars, have gotten larger and heavier over the years, but somehow the M2C is more at fault for not being made out of tissue paper than every other car on the road. Same thing as all the "BMW has lost its way" threads where every complaint about BMW can be tossed at every other car manufacturer, or nearly so.

Anyway, drive happy everyone. Enjoy what you bought, and if you don't, buy something else.
I bought a 350Z in 2006 and for the first couple of years, everyone on the internet would always throw shade at the weight of the car.

But four or five years later, nobody was concerned about a sports car weighing 3200 lbs.

I'm sure history will be similarly kind to the M2C's weight. Sure, 3600 lbs is borderline porky in 2020, but give it a few years and nobody will bat an eye at 3600 lbs, especially with the rise of electric vehicles.
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      06-06-2020, 04:47 AM   #36
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I'm late to the party but I would like to bring up one more thing. For less experienced driver the M2C is very rewarding to drive. The MDM mode lets you hang the tail out but still saves your bacon if you get too out of shape. I don't think the Camaro can do that, I would be scared to drive it.
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      06-08-2020, 08:28 PM   #37
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I never drove a ZL1 or an M2, but I can talk about the differences between the 2 Series and the Camaro.

I owned an M235i for 3 years before trading it in on a 2SS 1LE. Loved the BMW at first and was blown away by the quality of the car and the culture at the dealership. It was a fun/weekend car for me while I also had a Mini as a daily driver. I took the BMW to 3 HPDE track days (once per year) in the Intermediate run group, and it was quite capable.

A couple years after buying the BMW I decided I wanted something more brash and potent and test drove an SS Camaro. It was love at first drive - the sound and racecar-like feel were overwhelming, causing me to completely overlook the shortcomings like the poor visibility and ergonomics.

Two years with the 2SS and now the compromises are clear. As a track car, the Camaro can't be beat in its price segment. Period. It's totally amazing on track, and has the brakes and cooling to last all day easily. Chevy actually warranties the car for track use, and it's built to take it. The standard Head-Up Display is seemingly made for the track - it has shift lights that converge together and go from green-to-yellow-to-red like an F1 car.

On paper, the 2SS 1LE seems like it would be a great street car too. Standard equipment includes heated and ventilated suede Recaros, heated alcantara steering wheel, blind spot monitoring, cross-traffic alert, parking sensors, customizable digital gauges, Bose stereo, ambient lighting, Apple car play, Android auto, etc. But the negatives become apparent quickly. Ingress/egress is bad because the seating is so low. Visibility is horrendous - diehards say you get used to it, and you do, because what other choice do you have? The rear seats are useless. Interior storage is so bad there's no place to put your phone other than a cupholder - believe it or not, the center console is too small for a phone. Ride quality is stiff. Over 5200 miles I have averaged 17.5 mpg and it requires 93 octane - the ZL1 has even worse economy.

The Camaro excels when it comes to brute force, and no doubt, it's fun and rewarding to drive. Randy Pobst loves the car so much that he recently bought one for himself, so that's all you need to know about it being a driver's car. But as an everyday car - I'm personally considering trading in my Camaro and Mini for a pre-owned M2C when they start to become available.
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      06-09-2020, 12:37 PM   #38
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That's a pretty honest and fair review wjones14

Thanks for sharing.
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      06-12-2020, 11:25 AM   #39
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FWIW,

Two of my buddies narrowed their choices to 3 of the 2 you mentioned. Third being the Shelby GT350 (not the Bullitt). We picked up our Ms at the same time from the Welt - I went with the M5 while other two went with the M2 and M4 conv. resp.

Both of them picked up the GT350, as both had the same feedback - its felt more German and reminded them of their previous E9X - high revving V8s which they felt was lacking in their newer Ms.

Re: dealerships not offering you a test drive in their $70K car - yes many of the American big 3 - Ford, GM & FCA are notorious for it as this is the highest priced car they sell unlike their German counterparts. I am not sure what you currently drive, however, I have noticed in a change in their tone / behavior / overall perspective if you drive an M, AMG or Porsche to the dealership (no offense to the four circles).

If these two are your two choices and you are looking for what people will vote there here it is:

Chevy if I plan to track at least a weekend.
M2 if you are looking for a DD with outward visibility.

GL & do not forget to come back and tell us what you picked and why to return assist others in the same position as you, if not now in the future.
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      06-14-2020, 12:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat View Post
I'm late to the party but I would like to bring up one more thing. For less experienced driver the M2C is very rewarding to drive. The MDM mode lets you hang the tail out but still saves your bacon if you get too out of shape. I don't think the Camaro can do that, I would be scared to drive it.
Do more research on all the sub modes the SS 1LE and ZL1 have.

Not only do they have the basic traction/stability control systems , they have 5 PTM (Performance Traction Management) modes. It combines active traction management, e-diff., and stability control.

You will be hard pressed to find a more sophisticated, complete system.
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      07-10-2020, 12:08 AM   #41
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I just bought a ZL1 (non-1LE) to replace my M2C. Also had a GT350 in the past. IMHO the Camaro is on another level compared to both of those cars.
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      07-10-2020, 01:45 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by tawheed View Post
I just bought a ZL1 (non-1LE) to replace my M2C. Also had a GT350 in the past. IMHO the Camaro is on another level compared to both of those cars.
Performance-wise, there’s no doubt it’s on another level.
Even the regular SS I had was faster off the line compared to the M2C.

The overall feel of the car, however, will depend on personal preference.
Not saying the Camaro is sloppy, but the M2 feels a lot more tight to me.
Fit & finish of the cabin is better on the M as well. (Although not by much)

Congrats on the new ZL1. Enjoy, it’s one hell of a car!
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      07-10-2020, 03:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwater4me View Post
Performance-wise, there’s no doubt it’s on another level.
Even the regular SS I had was faster off the line compared to the M2C.

The overall feel of the car, however, will depend on personal preference.
Not saying the Camaro is sloppy, but the M2 feels a lot more tight to me.
Fit & finish of the cabin is better on the M as well. (Although not by much)

Congrats on the new ZL1. Enjoy, it’s one hell of a car!
Thank you! Yeah, the interior is slightly better on the ZL1 vs the SS 1LE I was originally considering.

Visibility is definitely the low point, everyone knows this. My 6 and 4 year old fit better in the back of the M2 but they make do in the ZL1.

Chassis wise though, Mustangs (I bought a Bullitt recently for a week) feel sloppy as heck compared the M2. The Camaro feels very, very dialled in to me. I've been trying to find a good SS 1LE for a while, decided to go with the ZL1 and it's honestly been the most excited I've been about owning a car in some time.
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      07-10-2020, 04:03 PM   #44
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I can't imagine anyone considering both of these cars. It makes no sense. Completely different animals.

ZL1 if you're going to spend your time mostly at the track.
M2C if you're going to spend your time mostly on the street.

How hard could that be?
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