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      01-12-2020, 11:29 AM   #1
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2020 M2C vs. 2020 ND Mazda Miata

Background: I'm looking for a fun car to keep for the long term that will bring me driving joy away from the daily grind. I understand this is not your typical comparison due to type of vehicle or cost. But I will tell you, for me it is.

I don't necessary need a daily driver since I live in the city. However, I do take it to the mountains or a few road trips. Living in the city, it affords me the ability to use this as my fun toy. Also, I don't mind driving either vehicles in the snow as I will have the appropriate winter tires or just not drive if the weather is terrible.

Why Miata: it has been applauded by journalists and enthusiasts alike without any pretense to cost or judgement. It is truly a great drivers car and can be had for half the price of the M2C. In addition, it has many creature comforts and not necessary compromised. Not to mention the fantastic shifter and convertible aspect. Also, you can really have max fun without going to jail. Lastly, it is designed from the ground up as a sports car, unlike the BMW.

Why M2C: from the BMW perspective, this vehicle harkens back to what a true M use to be. Great performance and relative value. It has ample seating and space available, if needed. But like I said, space is not a huge requirement. It also has all the power you need, but granted you will have to rein in what you can do on city streets.

Disclaimer: I know there are preowned options such as a Porsche XYZ. But I'm looking to buy this new.

General thoughts: originally I was all on-board with the M2C. However, seeing ownership reviews of the Miata and how great this car truly is, it's really having me rethink everything. I can comfortable afford either, but the benefit of saving $25K+ with the Miata also can't be ignored. Especially, if it gets the same joy or same "miles per gallon" as people say.

Please let me know your thoughts based on my current use case.
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      01-12-2020, 12:20 PM   #2
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At the price point of the Mazda why not get both? You can have fun in the Miata at 50mph, and when you need real speed you have the M2c.
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      01-12-2020, 12:23 PM   #3
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At the price point of the Mazda why not get both? You can have fun in the Miata at 50mph, and when you need real speed you have the M2c.
Haha ok, don't want to spend $90K.
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      01-12-2020, 12:32 PM   #4
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So the question to you is what’s more important? Fun at low speed or fun at high speed. Based on what you wrote I think it comes down to this.
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      01-12-2020, 01:00 PM   #5
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Miata, was one of my considerations too but my son told me he knows how to make napalm from the "Anarchist's Cookbook" so when I'm sleeping the zoom zoom will go boom. 😐

I liked the idea of not caring about scratches, parking or potholes as much as I do in my M2.

truly apples and oranges, if I could do it again I would've grabbed the Miata and maybe I might But my son would never forgive me...

He calls it not a girls car but more a lesbian Whole Foods shopping "pat from SNL" type of car, no way would he let me get it due to embarrassment

Joking here, mostly. Both are fine cars, I've driven both I own the M2 currently
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      01-12-2020, 02:01 PM   #6
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I owned a NC2, ND1 RF, and now a NC3. As a pure, back to basics fun car they're a blast and truly the last of their breed in the automotive world. However, the older I get and the worse my commute gets the less I enjoy Miatas as a daily driver. Too loud with the top up, and as much as I love their manual gearboxes it tends to get tiring after miles of stop and go traffic on the highway.

So for me and my current situation and preferences I'd take a M2C as a daily. Eight years ago though I loved having my NC2 as my only car. So it's really a question only you can answer for yourself.
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      01-12-2020, 02:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by alan7467 View Post
I owned a NC2, ND1 RF, and now a NC3. As a pure, back to basics fun car they're a blast and truly the last of their breed in the automotive world. However, the older I get and the worse my commute gets the less I enjoy Miatas as a daily driver. Too loud with the top up, and as much as I love their manual gearboxes it tends to get tiring after miles of stop and go traffic on the highway.

So for me and my current situation and preferences I'd take a M2C as a daily. Eight years ago though I loved having my NC2 as my only car. So it's really a question only you can answer for yourself.
Thank you for your perspective!

So it seems to me the manual transmission gets old as a daily. I'm assuming your M2C is dct now? I regarding the noise level, I can definitely understand.

If you were to only drive your vehicle on the weekends, would the BMW or Miata feel more special to you?
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      01-12-2020, 06:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
Thank you for your perspective!

So it seems to me the manual transmission gets old as a daily. I'm assuming your M2C is dct now? I regarding the noise level, I can definitely understand.

If you were to only drive your vehicle on the weekends, would the BMW or Miata feel more special to you?
I've actually only ever test driven the M2 and M2C (both with DCT). So I might not be the best person to answer the "special" factor question for you. That said in my opinion they're both pretty special vehicles.

The ND was created from the ground up as a dedicated platform. The amount of engineering that went into creating the car is truly impressive given the price point. When you drive it you can tell they had a lot of focus on providing a certain set of sensations to the driver. It's pretty raw and wonderfully engaging at sane speeds. It also feels like you're really flying through corners thanks to the purposefully engineered excessive body roll. I've got mixed feelings about that actually. I don't always like the feeling of the car flopping over, and I've modified my previous two Miatas to eliminate some of that. However, in both instances I found that they became less fun through the corners at legal speeds without the extra motion of the body roll. So Mazda clearly was on to something there.

With the M2C I'm really impressed with what they've turned the 2-series into. It weighs so much more than the Miata, but still feels very nimble and eager to be tossed around. The thing that I found on my test drives was that the M2C was very civil and low key when cruising down the highway. Then you toss it through some turns and the fun factor and engagement goes way up. It's certainly more insulated than something like the Miata, and I can see that feeling less "special" to some, but pay attention to the feedback (mostly through the seat IMHO) you get from the car when cornering even at legal speeds and you know it too is a special car.

I'd highly recommend test driving them both and seeing which feels more special to you for a weekend toy. I don't think either is the wrong choice depending on the person. I myself am leaning heavily towards picking up a M2C to replace both my Miata and my daily driver (MK7 VW GTI) this year.
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      01-12-2020, 06:44 PM   #9
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Why not get a used 911 or Cayman?
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      01-12-2020, 06:49 PM   #10
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The two Miata's I've had were the funnest cars I've ever owned, and easily beat out my current M2, Lotus Exige, and past S2000 and STi in that category. Beyond that, they are happy to take a beating, are dead reliable, and stupid cheap to own and maintain.

For a fun car this is the easiest decision in the world.
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      01-12-2020, 07:00 PM   #11
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Wow I'm surprised of all the great feedback and praises of the Miata on a BMW forum. I was expecting this to go in a different direction with a lot of people ragging on the Miata. Really shows what a great car the Miata is and how it can appeal to a wide range of automotive enthusiasts.

Funny, I'm reading the Miata forum and I've seen a few people who have traded their M2C's for the Miata, etc.
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      01-12-2020, 07:46 PM   #12
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My wife just got a Miata RF with the GTS package as her "toy" car about two months ago-- she used to have a first-gen soft-top MX-5, but the hard top was what she wanted because we live in Denver (with our eye eventually on Seattle); a hard top is worth its weight in gold somewhere where it snows/rains a fair bit.

It's admittedly a blast to drive, and the MT is probably just about the best in the industry-- it's got a *really* nice feel to it; the gates are just about perfect for where you want them to be.

BUT--

It would be *insane* as a daily driver. My wife's "fun sized" and even she says the entire capacity of the car is her plus a purse.

I'm 6' with a fairly long torso, and I can NOT fit in it with the top up-- and even with the top down, it's a stretch. And the only way I really fit is to put my knees up near the front bolster and then recline the seat as much as I can.

And, now that I'm in my 50's? It's sort of a contortion act to get in/out of it-- which takes a lot of the fun out riding in it-- I'm in reasonable shape, but it takes a lot of bending, twisting and pulling that isn't much fun on a day to day basis.

On the other hand, it's a *complete* hoot to drive, even at lower speeds. It's not especially overpowered so you have to really concentrate on driving it *well* to get it to do what you want-- but, talk about being "one with the machine".....

One thing-- if you do go with the MX-5, I'd really recommend the GTS package-- which is front engine brace, LSD, and Bilstein struts. It's a lot of bang for the buck (especially the LSD). Yes, you can do better on the suspension if you want to go aftermarket, but the GTS package is a blast right out of the box, and the ride quality, while firm, isn't bad at all. Well worth the extra $750 that it costs.

Overall verdict-- Pound for pound/dollar for dollar? The most fun weekend car there is-- IF YOU FIT. But I suspect it would be homicide inducing as a daily driver and the shine would wear off quickly.

R.

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      01-12-2020, 07:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybigjet View Post
My wife just got a Miata RF with the GTS package as her "toy" car about two months ago-- she used to have a first-gen soft-top MX-5, but the hard top was what she wanted because we live in Denver (with our eye eventually on Seattle); a hard top is worth its weight in gold somewhere where it snows/rains a fair bit.

It's admittedly a blast to drive, and the MT is probably just about the best in the industry-- it's got a *really* nice feel to it; the gates are just about perfect for where you want them to be.

BUT--

It would be *insane* as a daily driver. My wife's "fun sized" and even she says the entire capacity of the car is her plus a purse.

I'm 6' with a fairly long torso, and I can NOT fit in it with the top up-- and even with the top down, it's a stretch. And the only way I really fit is to put my knees up near the front bolster and then recline the seat as much as I can.

And, now that I'm in my 50's? It's sort of a contortion act to get in/out of it-- which takes a lot of the fun out riding in it-- I'm in reasonable shape, but it takes a lot of bending, twisting and pulling that isn't much fun on a day to day basis.

On the other hand, it's a *complete* hoot to drive, even at lower speeds. It's not especially overpowered so you have to really concentrate on driving it *well* to get it to do what you want-- but, talk about being "one with the machine".....

One thing-- if you do go with the MX-5, I'd really recommend the GTS package-- which is front engine brace, LSD, and Bilstein struts. It's a lot of bang for the buck (especially the LSD). Yes, you can do better on the suspension if you want to go aftermarket, but the GTS package is a blast right out of the box, and the ride quality, while firm, isn't bad at all. Well worth the extra $750 that it costs.

Overall verdict-- Pound for pound/dollar for dollar? The most fun weekend car there is-- IF YOU FIT. But I suspect it would be homicide inducing as a daily driver and the shine would wear off quickly.

R.
Thanks R for your real-world experience! Luckily I'm pretty short at 5'6, so I will fit fine. And yes, I would definitely require the GT-S package.

Good news is for MY20, it is included in the GT trim now and I wouldn't get it in any other form. I have driven the NC, but not the ND Miata, so I will try to get some seat time next weekend for a verdict.

I however still have a sweet spot for the BMW since it's been something I've wanted for some time. However, I have test driven it a couple of times and maybe I need more options before making a final decision.
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      01-12-2020, 08:01 PM   #14
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Did someone say Miata?

I chose to have both. I found a prestine 96 M Edition to complement my M2 DCT for whenever I miss shifting or no top over my head fun drive.
You honestly are the only person who can make that decision on what route to take.
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      01-12-2020, 08:05 PM   #15
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Did someone say Miata?

I chose to have both. I found a prestine 96 M Edition to complement my M2 DCT for whenever I miss shifting or no top over my head fun drive.
You honestly are the only person who can make that decision on what route to take.
True that, you lucky guy!

Ok, so how often do you take the Miata out and does it give you the same or even more joy than the M2?
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      01-12-2020, 09:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
True that, you lucky guy!

Ok, so how often do you take the Miata out and does it give you the same or even more joy than the M2?
Honestly the Miata does give me more joy driving it. I take it out at least twice a week. It is really a different fun between the two. With the M2 I feel confident in the car driving it daily With all its modern amenities and still get all the thrill when turning fast in corners and letting the tires loose in sport+ and MDM. While the 96 Miata although slower (much slower) retains all the old school feel and being smaller than most modern cars it take a bit more of paying attention when driving fast. Even more joy, driving at night, heater on, top down, headrest speaker blasting and taking fast corners. BTW, The Miata in manual with the mech diff is second to none. Then I jump back to the M2 and continue to appreciate the balanced chassis both car provides.
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      01-12-2020, 11:02 PM   #17
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I own both right now.

A 2017 RF Club with Brembo setup for SCCA STR

and a 2020 M2C

Both are manuals.

RF: The best shifter I've put my hands on in 30+ years of instructing and driving cars fast. Its my winter car here in New England.
The car at any speed feels fast, and fun. With its JRZ doubles and 650/350 Springs & 245/40 RE71R's it out handles my M2c. It used to be my daily and I'm in my 60's. Its got lots of wind noise, and you feel like your "wearing" the car. There is one really downside...I can't fit a proper rollbar under the RF's roof. Next one will be a soft top.

Oh and last the top goes down!

The M2: Its stupid fast, but is 1100lbs heavier than the Miata. Its solid as a piece of granite at any speed, and does everything well. It feels fast at much higher illegal speeds and requires a track to truly enjoy it. Its a tomb compared to my RF...

These two cars take care of all my driving demands. Out the door my RF cost me $35K. My M2 new about $52K (work for BMW). I get more compliments on the RF than on the M2.

If you can only get one get the M2. Its a great daily, but can also turn fast laps in skilled hands.
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      01-12-2020, 11:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
I own both right now.

A 2017 RF Club with Brembo setup for SCCA STR

and a 2020 M2C

Both are manuals.

RF: The best shifter I've put my hands on in 30+ years of instructing and driving cars fast. Its my winter car here in New England.
The car at any speed feels fast, and fun. With its JRZ doubles and 650/350 Springs & 245/40 RE71R's it out handles my M2c. It used to be my daily and I'm in my 60's. Its got lots of wind noise, and you feel like your "wearing" the car. There is one really downside...I can't fit a proper rollbar under the RF's roof. Next one will be a soft top.

Oh and last the top goes down!

The M2: Its stupid fast, but is 1100lbs heavier than the Miata. Its solid as a piece of granite at any speed, and does everything well. It feels fast at much higher illegal speeds and requires a track to truly enjoy it. Its a tomb compared to my RF...

These two cars take care of all my driving demands. Out the door my RF cost me $35K. My M2 new about $52K (work for BMW). I get more compliments on the RF than on the M2.

If you can only get one get the M2. Its a great daily, but can also turn fast laps in skilled hands.
Wow what a combo! Truly amazing setup and great price on both! Especially that BMW, and boy let me tell you how many times I've thought of applying to work with a car brand...

Appreciate your dual perspective!
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      01-13-2020, 02:20 AM   #19
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Wow I'm surprised of all the great feedback and praises of the Miata on a BMW forum. I was expecting this to go in a different direction with a lot of people ragging on the Miata.
Not sure why you'd expect ppl to rag on it - only an ignorant person (i.e., someone who doesn't get what a Miata is all about) and/or someone with serious insecurity would rag on it.

Like some others here, I have both; however, I hate the body roll of the ND - and the lack of paint colors that appeal to me (such as dark blue or dark green) - so that's why I have not gotten a new one. Plus I still love my '99 (NB) which corners flat, just the way I like it. And I've never gotten tired of working its clutch after 21 years and over 136,000 miles (I hate stop & go traffic... only 'cause I hate not moving!).

Both are rwd sporting machines, so I can see how both are appealing, but since they're so different, only test drives of each will tell you which driving experience you want to prioritize.
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      01-13-2020, 02:55 AM   #20
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I was actually in a really similar boat as you. Part of me was just like "why not save a boatload of cash? The car will probably be just as much fun anyway."

It's honestly not a bad idea, but a few things swayed me back towards buying an M2 Comp.

I like owning cars for a long time, building up a relationship with that car, learning it and knowing exactly how it's going to react in any given situation. I've only ever driven older Miatas but every one i've driven has lived up to the car's reputation for accessible performance. That's great! It's honestly a fantastic trait in an automobile, but if i'm looking for a long term thing, I want to have to work for it juuust a little bit. The M2c is also very playful, but in addition to that, it's genuinely fast. There's a lot more car to "learn" with the M2c.

Secondly: Miatas are awesome but not particularly nice. Again that's absolutely part of their charm. But while I can afford either car, I am not made of money. There's a certain amount of "pot committed" i feel when it comes to buying a brand new car. If i'm really going to commit such a big chunk of cash to an automobile, i'd rather kind of check all of the boxes at once if at all possible. Which is, I think one of the best things about the M2 comp, it really checks a lot of boxes. I feel like I have plenty of time to pick up a used Miata for $5K-7K and get 90 percent of the experience of a new ND without such a big commitment. I'd also be less worried about owning one out of warranty and more likely to be able to fix it myself. Plus, they are by nature, excellent second cars, while the M2c is absolutely my daily.

My third argument for the M2 Competition is that it's special. My first car was a Celica All-trac, which was a full on rally homologation special. My next car, a 350Z was better, faster and much more fun to drive. I loved that car, but I really missed having something rare, interesting and a little different. It's a lot more fun to be admired by an enthusiast who knows what they're looking at, than recognized as "that sports car guy" by every layman on the street. And the car is definitely special, it was created because BMW was over a barrel with it's engine options. 90 percent of the time when a car company bandaids a product for emissions purposes it hurts the customer. The M2 Competition falls into the other ten percent. We got a car BMW consciously declined to make. They easily could have started the M2 line with the S55 in there, but they likely thought it would cannibalize M3/M4 sales. Well. We got the car anyway. Stuff like that doesn't happen every day, we should take advantage of it.

Finally, my most obvious argument for the M2 Comp is that it's fast. I'm in the camp that would rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow, but ultimately I can't deny that gunning the car on an onramp puts a smile on my face in the simplest of ways. Dumb? yes. Still fun though. I'm 37 years old, so the supercars of my youth were 400-500 hp machines. I've always felt like that was a pretty good horsepower range and about the upper limits of 'reasonable' before things cross over into 'excessive.'

Now, there are plenty of other cars that are fast. Any number of muscle cars can match the M2 comp for speed and horsepower while doing so for cheaper. And yeah, the M2c handles better but we're kidding ourselves if we think even something as pedestrian as a Mustang GT isn't within spitting distance on a race track. But they're all big, each and every one of them. The M2 comp combines the more serious speed of those cars with a good dose of the tossability and playfullness of a Miata. I took it out last night in the rain and had a blast with small amounts of oversteer on a few tight corners. It's happy to play, seldom feeling like there's too much momentum and wheelbase to fool around with. Plus, it's way nicer inside than either of those cars.

And one last bonus argument: 400+ hp manual transmission cars are not long for this world. Get it while the getting's good. Yeah, again the muscle cars also provide this. But if your thrills are coming more from straight line speed, there's less of an argument for having a manual anyway. The Supra also checked a bunch of my boxes, but no manual kind of ruined it (for me, that's just how I like my sports cars, no judgement if you're different.)

Anyway, good luck with your choice. The Miata is a truly awesome vehicle and a legend in its own right. Enjoy the shit out of whatever you end up going with, just be sure to stick around if you end up making the same choice as the rest of us here on this site!
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      01-13-2020, 05:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
Background: I'm looking for a fun car to keep for the long term that will bring me driving joy away from the daily grind. I understand this is not your typical comparison due to type of vehicle or cost. But I will tell you, for me it is.

I don't necessary need a daily driver since I live in the city. However, I do take it to the mountains or a few road trips. Living in the city, it affords me the ability to use this as my fun toy. Also, I don't mind driving either vehicles in the snow as I will have the appropriate winter tires or just not drive if the weather is terrible.

Why Miata: it has been applauded by journalists and enthusiasts alike without any pretense to cost or judgement. It is truly a great drivers car and can be had for half the price of the M2C. In addition, it has many creature comforts and not necessary compromised. Not to mention the fantastic shifter and convertible aspect. Also, you can really have max fun without going to jail. Lastly, it is designed from the ground up as a sports car, unlike the BMW.

Why M2C: from the BMW perspective, this vehicle harkens back to what a true M use to be. Great performance and relative value. It has ample seating and space available, if needed. But like I said, space is not a huge requirement. It also has all the power you need, but granted you will have to rein in what you can do on city streets.

Disclaimer: I know there are preowned options such as a Porsche XYZ. But I'm looking to buy this new.

General thoughts: originally I was all on-board with the M2C. However, seeing ownership reviews of the Miata and how great this car truly is, it's really having me rethink everything. I can comfortable afford either, but the benefit of saving $25K+ with the Miata also can't be ignored. Especially, if it gets the same joy or same "miles per gallon" as people say.

Please let me know your thoughts based on my current use case.
Go and test drive both cars and see which one sings more to your heart

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      01-13-2020, 09:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by izzyM2 View Post
Did someone say Miata?

I chose to have both. I found a prestine 96 M Edition to complement my M2 DCT for whenever I miss shifting or no top over my head fun drive.
You honestly are the only person who can make that decision on what route to take.
Ugh! I am so jelly. I want that exact same setup and am only short an NA haha. Test drove a supercharged BRG on Tan (looking for that combo) but it was a rust bucket
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AX 1.1 --> AX GTI --> NA Roadster 1.8 --> E39 528i --> Xsara VTS --> Volvo 940 LPT --> Focus RS MK3 --> M2C + NA Miata 1.8
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