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      06-23-2019, 12:09 PM   #23
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Hard to cross shop these two cars given the price difference and number of seats. To me, the M2C makes a great DD, the GT4 less so. From a pure driving experience, I'm sure the GT4 owns the M2C, as it should for the price. For me, all the Porsche GT cars are wasted if you are not tracking them or at least able to take them on spited back road drives frequently. Sure, it's cool to putt around in city traffic with a nice car (if you are into that kind of thing), but...

If anyone was offered either car, I cannot believe any sane person would not take the GT4, if only because it would be easier to buy an M2C as a DD.
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      06-26-2019, 03:54 PM   #24
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maybe you spend the saved money at the m2comp on suspension (eg bilstein clubsport) wheels (m763) anti roll bars (H&R front and rear), turbo back exhaust and an nice ecu remapping? after it should be pretty close from the performance pov?
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      07-19-2019, 08:42 AM   #25
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I have an M2 and I'm getting the new GT4...

Apples to apples, the weight of the 718 is only 35 kg higher than the 981. There are new rules in Europe to calculate the official weight of a new car.

981 was 1340 kg, while the 718 with same options will be roughly 1375-1380 kg (3050 lbs).

I'm getting the Porsche as an evolution of the M2, I expect a more special car with better handling/riding caracteristics and better resale value (in %).. I also want to get my hands on an NA GT Porsche car before they get turbos or hybrid.. I expect that car to be one of the last generation of that kind.

I expect the M2CS to be quite similar than the M3CS... A faster car than the Comp version, but nothing else special. No wonder these BMW GTS/CS models stay on the lot around here with massive discounts... Nice cars, but for the money, there are better alternatives (IMO).

Hopefully I make the right choice!

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      07-19-2019, 05:31 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by S1monQc View Post
I have an M2 and I'm getting the new GT4...

Apples to apples, the weight of the 718 is only 35 kg higher than the 981. There are new rules in Europe to calculate the official weight of a new car.

981 was 1340 kg, while the 718 with same options will be roughly 1375-1380 kg (3050 lbs).

I'm getting the Porsche as an evolution of the M2, I expect a more special car with better handling/riding caracteristics and better resale value (in %).. I also want to get my hands on an NA GT Porsche car before they get turbos or hybrid.. I expect that car to be one of the last generation of that kind.

I expect the M2CS to be quite similar than the M3CS... A faster car than the Comp version, but nothing else special. No wonder these BMW GTS/CS models stay on the lot around here with massive discounts... Nice cars, but for the money, there are better alternatives (IMO).

Hopefully I make the right choice!
I love the Cayman GT4... but screw that with the 2020 ME Vette being announced. Less money, more car! Even at the same price, I'd go for the Corvette!

Keep in mind that Porsche already said that the 781 GT4 will NOT be a limited release, they'll build as many as they sell, so I wouldn't consider it as a potential 'investment.'
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      07-20-2019, 05:46 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by CompetentAccountant View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by S1monQc View Post
I have an M2 and I'm getting the new GT4...

Apples to apples, the weight of the 718 is only 35 kg higher than the 981. There are new rules in Europe to calculate the official weight of a new car.

981 was 1340 kg, while the 718 with same options will be roughly 1375-1380 kg (3050 lbs).

I'm getting the Porsche as an evolution of the M2, I expect a more special car with better handling/riding caracteristics and better resale value (in %).. I also want to get my hands on an NA GT Porsche car before they get turbos or hybrid.. I expect that car to be one of the last generation of that kind.

I expect the M2CS to be quite similar than the M3CS... A faster car than the Comp version, but nothing else special. No wonder these BMW GTS/CS models stay on the lot around here with massive discounts... Nice cars, but for the money, there are better alternatives (IMO).

Hopefully I make the right choice!
I love the Cayman GT4... but screw that with the 2020 ME Vette being announced. Less money, more car! Even at the same price, I'd go for the Corvette!

Keep in mind that Porsche already said that the 781 GT4 will NOT be a limited release, they'll build as many as they sell, so I wouldn't consider it as a potential 'investment.'
True that it will not be "limited". But will it be more than the 2,200 anticipated for the M2CS? I still think Porsche will artificially hold back its production and still be less than the M2CS after its entire lifecycle.

In addition, 2K in one year is going to flood the market to quickly. Value perspective, it might have been better if they released limited quantities every year until BMW hit their quota.
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      07-21-2019, 06:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
True that it will not be "limited". But will it be more than the 2,200 anticipated for the M2CS? I still think Porsche will artificially hold back its production and still be less than the M2CS after its entire lifecycle.

In addition, 2K in one year is going to flood the market to quickly. Value perspective, it might have been better if they released limited quantities every year until BMW hit their quota.
Not all of the 2,200 are going to the US. It's a worldwide release.
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      07-21-2019, 06:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCZ5 View Post
True that it will not be "limited". But will it be more than the 2,200 anticipated for the M2CS? I still think Porsche will artificially hold back its production and still be less than the M2CS after its entire lifecycle.

In addition, 2K in one year is going to flood the market to quickly. Value perspective, it might have been better if they released limited quantities every year until BMW hit their quota.
Not all of the 2,200 are going to the US. It's a worldwide release.
Yeah, I've read some conflicting reports of CSL for worldwide distribution and CS only for America's. But even if it's worldwide, I still sense GT4 will be less than that, even in 3 years.

In terms of "value retention", the M3CS was only produced for 1 year with 1,200 units. And they were sitting on the lots. Granted, it also had an unreasonable entry price point imo
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      09-04-2019, 02:44 AM   #30
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I drive M2c now, not CS, and am also considering 718 GT4(spyder), not to replace though, to have a second car.

I haven't decided yet, still considering some other options. The biggest issues for me are the following two:

1. Everyone loves high rev NA engines but they are not useful. 4.0L NA has way less torque than 3.0 Turbo, and similar max power output, but at any low-mid range, which you use daily, turbo wins. I used to have a S 1000 RR and I hardly use anything near the red zone because in 1st gear to use 14000RPM it would be 140km/h already. I think even if I buy the GT4/Spyder, I probably wouldn't drop to 1st to utilize 6k rpm during a tight turn.

2. I always think if I can afford 911, I wouldn't choose 718. Be it 992 vs 718, or GT3 vs GT4.

With that said, I absolutely love the 718 Spyder but if I shop with logic not passion I probably would go for something else.
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      09-04-2019, 06:10 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronCore864 View Post
I drive M2c now, not CS, and am also considering 718 GT4(spyder), not to replace though, to have a second car.

I haven't decided yet, still considering some other options. The biggest issues for me are the following two:

1. Everyone loves high rev NA engines but they are not useful. 4.0L NA has way less torque than 3.0 Turbo, and similar max power output, but at any low-mid range, which you use daily, turbo wins. I used to have a S 1000 RR and I hardly use anything near the red zone because in 1st gear to use 14000RPM it would be 140km/h already. I think even if I buy the GT4/Spyder, I probably wouldn't drop to 1st to utilize 6k rpm during a tight turn.

2. I always think if I can afford 911, I wouldn't choose 718. Be it 992 vs 718, or GT3 vs GT4.

With that said, I absolutely love the 718 Spyder but if I shop with logic not passion I probably would go for something else.
I'm in the same boat although with LCI M2.
Either I go for GT4/Spyder (and face the long 2nd gear issue) or wait for 911T in manual which might be the sweet spot for DD & Occasional Track/Tour around EU.
The 911T seems the best choice and I regret that I missed the last one as it's an amazingly fun car for the money.
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      09-22-2019, 11:51 AM   #32
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M2 Competition VS 718 GT4

I have owned the M2 Comp for 3 months now and here are some quick thoughts.
So much bang for buck car! What else would you get that has this performance for the price?
I live in Europe so my car has the OPF, this has been my major issue with the car.
Stock the M2c is way to quite so a exhaust is mandatory. I got the Milltek system with OPF delete and decat downpipes. Sound has been crazy good after that.
The problem after that has been that the DME/ECU is locked in the 2020 model. So there is no software tuning ability at all for this model.
So I ordered a RaceChip figuring it would only take a few weeks for ProtuningFreaks to fix the problem.
The RaceChip has been okay giving the car 515Hp, this piggyback is very simple and does not clear codes like downpipes or OPF.
So the downpipes give a constant CEL but the big pain has been the new OPF system. There is a built in sensor in the engine that checks the air flow resistance through the OPFs. The Millteks that are on my car have no filter so it trips the sensor and puts the car in Limp Mode.
First time was super scary! Felt like I lost all boost. Car goes down to 10% power. This happens EVERY time on 5000rpm and also happens when boost is high. It's almost impossible to overtake without going in to limp-mode.
Since this has happened I have not felt like using the car, just been waiting for a tuning company to figure it out.


Porsche

I have been on the list for the new GT4 for over 2 years and really try to get a good connection with my local Porsche dealer. In May I got a call from Porsche saying that they won't follow a waiting list for the new GT4 but rather the dealership had to pitch Porsche why this person should get the allocation. 2 weeks after this call I bought the M2 Competition instead.

3 Months later

The Boss from Porsche dealership called me up and said he had heard I was dissatisfied with experience with his dealership. We had a long conversation about allocations and he was explaining that these cars will go to there customers that have several Porsche cars for example Cayenne for family car and GT3 as a sports car. He was great guy and no hard feeling, this is how these things work.
1 Day later a sales rep from Porsche called me and said his boss wanted to offer me there very first build slot for the GT4! Of course I said yes right away, now I just have to get rid of the M2 Comp.
Later that week was Frankfurt auto show so we flew there to check out the GT4. Wow! This car makes you feel special, sitting in the 918 carbon bucket seat just inches over the ground, holding the alcantara steering wheel felt great!
Can't wait to drive my new car!
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      09-22-2019, 03:55 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wern3r View Post
M2 Competition VS 718 GT4

I have owned the M2 Comp for 3 months now and here are some quick thoughts.
So much bang for buck car! What else would you get that has this performance for the price?
I live in Europe so my car has the OPF, this has been my major issue with the car.
Stock the M2c is way to quite so a exhaust is mandatory. I got the Milltek system with OPF delete and decat downpipes. Sound has been crazy good after that.
The problem after that has been that the DME/ECU is locked in the 2020 model. So there is no software tuning ability at all for this model.
So I ordered a RaceChip figuring it would only take a few weeks for ProtuningFreaks to fix the problem.
The RaceChip has been okay giving the car 515Hp, this piggyback is very simple and does not clear codes like downpipes or OPF.
So the downpipes give a constant CEL but the big pain has been the new OPF system. There is a built in sensor in the engine that checks the air flow resistance through the OPFs. The Millteks that are on my car have no filter so it trips the sensor and puts the car in Limp Mode.
First time was super scary! Felt like I lost all boost. Car goes down to 10% power. This happens EVERY time on 5000rpm and also happens when boost is high. It's almost impossible to overtake without going in to limp-mode.
Since this has happened I have not felt like using the car, just been waiting for a tuning company to figure it out.


Porsche

I have been on the list for the new GT4 for over 2 years and really try to get a good connection with my local Porsche dealer. In May I got a call from Porsche saying that they won't follow a waiting list for the new GT4 but rather the dealership had to pitch Porsche why this person should get the allocation. 2 weeks after this call I bought the M2 Competition instead.

3 Months later

The Boss from Porsche dealership called me up and said he had heard I was dissatisfied with experience with his dealership. We had a long conversation about allocations and he was explaining that these cars will go to there customers that have several Porsche cars for example Cayenne for family car and GT3 as a sports car. He was great guy and no hard feeling, this is how these things work.
1 Day later a sales rep from Porsche called me and said his boss wanted to offer me there very first build slot for the GT4! Of course I said yes right away, now I just have to get rid of the M2 Comp.
Later that week was Frankfurt auto show so we flew there to check out the GT4. Wow! This car makes you feel special, sitting in the 918 carbon bucket seat just inches over the ground, holding the alcantara steering wheel felt great!
Can't wait to drive my new car!
You must live in the sticks.

Come to California. There are a ton of Porsche dealers here and the allocation thing is a joke. Anyone who has the money can get one here.
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      09-22-2019, 06:06 PM   #34
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It's no longer "limited". Sure people who has GT3s will get them first. But it's been said with this version of GT4, Porsche will build them to match demand.

Therefore, the M2CS has the limited designation going for it. This is super important now since the speculated MSRP is close to US$95K from what some forum members are saying. At that price, it would be hard to convince someone to stay with BMW, maybe expect for the limited "collectibility" factor.
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      09-22-2019, 11:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wern3r View Post
M2 Competition VS 718 GT4

I have owned the M2 Comp for 3 months now and here are some quick thoughts.
So much bang for buck car! What else would you get that has this performance for the price?
I live in Europe so my car has the OPF, this has been my major issue with the car.
Stock the M2c is way to quite so a exhaust is mandatory. I got the Milltek system with OPF delete and decat downpipes. Sound has been crazy good after that.
The problem after that has been that the DME/ECU is locked in the 2020 model. So there is no software tuning ability at all for this model.
So I ordered a RaceChip figuring it would only take a few weeks for ProtuningFreaks to fix the problem.
The RaceChip has been okay giving the car 515Hp, this piggyback is very simple and does not clear codes like downpipes or OPF.
So the downpipes give a constant CEL but the big pain has been the new OPF system. There is a built in sensor in the engine that checks the air flow resistance through the OPFs. The Millteks that are on my car have no filter so it trips the sensor and puts the car in Limp Mode.
First time was super scary! Felt like I lost all boost. Car goes down to 10% power. This happens EVERY time on 5000rpm and also happens when boost is high. It's almost impossible to overtake without going in to limp-mode.
Since this has happened I have not felt like using the car, just been waiting for a tuning company to figure it out.


Porsche

I have been on the list for the new GT4 for over 2 years and really try to get a good connection with my local Porsche dealer. In May I got a call from Porsche saying that they won't follow a waiting list for the new GT4 but rather the dealership had to pitch Porsche why this person should get the allocation. 2 weeks after this call I bought the M2 Competition instead.

3 Months later

The Boss from Porsche dealership called me up and said he had heard I was dissatisfied with experience with his dealership. We had a long conversation about allocations and he was explaining that these cars will go to there customers that have several Porsche cars for example Cayenne for family car and GT3 as a sports car. He was great guy and no hard feeling, this is how these things work.
1 Day later a sales rep from Porsche called me and said his boss wanted to offer me there very first build slot for the GT4! Of course I said yes right away, now I just have to get rid of the M2 Comp.
Later that week was Frankfurt auto show so we flew there to check out the GT4. Wow! This car makes you feel special, sitting in the 918 carbon bucket seat just inches over the ground, holding the alcantara steering wheel felt great!
Can't wait to drive my new car!
You must live in the sticks.

Come to California. There are a ton of Porsche dealers here and the allocation thing is a joke. Anyone who has the money can get one here.
Yes I do live in the sticks

The M2 CS/CSL will be a great car! Personally I like the ability to tune a forced induction car. They make great cars for fun daily driving. I read somewhere that they are only making 2200 units?
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      09-23-2019, 12:59 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
I'm in the same boat although with LCI M2.
Either I go for GT4/Spyder (and face the long 2nd gear issue) or wait for 911T in manual which might be the sweet spot for DD & Occasional Track/Tour around EU.
The 911T seems the best choice and I regret that I missed the last one as it's an amazingly fun car for the money.
I agree the 911 T seems like a great choice - was very excited to get the details on the new GT4 (and thrilled to see it can be had in dark blue, unlike the current GT3 or 911 T) but, aside from needing a Touring pkg so I could lose that giant wing, I found myself daydreaming about the 992 instead. I think it's those rear fenders . Also, while I enjoy winding up a naturally aspirated engine (as I'm more about fun and driving pleasure than lap times or drag races), I agree with what others said about the turbo engine's low-end torque being pretty useful - and fun - around town, and the 992 engine redline is only 500 rpm lower than the GT4's so it really does seem like the sweet spot. In a perfect world, I'd be able to swing a 911 GT3 Touring [in dark blue!], but since that's a stretch too far, I'm with you on likely targeting a 992 T manual. Just hope they're not stingy with the color palette like the 991 T.

If I didn't already have an M2, it'd be a tough call on the extra power and extra special touches of the M2 CS vs the precision and sounds of the GT4. Couple downsides to each for me - high weight and low rpm sound of the M2 CS vs the unsightly bat-wing (don't care that it's functional) and lack of low rpm torque of the GT4. Therefore... a third option... 992 T.
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      09-23-2019, 02:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I agree the 911 T seems like a great choice - was very excited to get the details on the new GT4 (and thrilled to see it can be had in dark blue, unlike the current GT3 or 911 T) but, aside from needing a Touring pkg so I could lose that giant wing, I found myself daydreaming about the 992 instead. I think it's those rear fenders . Also, while I enjoy winding up a naturally aspirated engine (as I'm more about fun and driving pleasure than lap times or drag races), I agree with what others said about the turbo engine's low-end torque being pretty useful - and fun - around town, and the 992 engine redline is only 500 rpm lower than the GT4's so it really does seem like the sweet spot. In a perfect world, I'd be able to swing a 911 GT3 Touring [in dark blue!], but since that's a stretch too far, I'm with you on likely targeting a 992 T manual. Just hope they're not stingy with the color palette like the 991 T.

If I didn't already have an M2, it'd be a tough call on the extra power and extra special touches of the M2 CS vs the precision and sounds of the GT4. Couple downsides to each for me - high weight and low rpm sound of the M2 CS vs the unsightly bat-wing (don't care that it's functional) and lack of low rpm torque of the GT4. Therefore... a third option... 992 T.
Same here: the 992 Carrera T should be amazing. I was too late for the 991 Carrera T.
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      09-27-2019, 07:27 AM   #38
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aren't there used market for 991T? were they limited? why is everyone saying they are too late for it?
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      09-27-2019, 07:54 AM   #39
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aren't there used market for 991T? were they limited? why is everyone saying they are too late for it?
I was late to order one for Euro delivery. I agree there are used ones on the market. Will see when the 992T is launched.
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      10-02-2019, 12:00 AM   #40
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aren't there used market for 991T? were they limited? why is everyone saying they are too late for it?
I would also say I am too late for a 991 T, as I want a brand new one built to order (euro delivery of course) and, if they haven't ended production of them yet, it is certainly imminent.
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      10-20-2019, 02:26 AM   #41
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I’m very interested in the GT4. It would replace my OG M2, which has been a great, very usable, DD. From what I’ve seen of the 718 and GT4, it looks like it’s on a whole different level. As it should be, given it costs nearly twice the price of mine.

I do wonder if the NA engine will be a little like my e9x M3 was in the sense that it was great up top, but boring under 5k.
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      10-31-2019, 03:53 PM   #42
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I'm very interested in the GT4. It would replace my OG M2, which has been a great, very usable, DD. From what I've seen of the 718 and GT4, it looks like it's on a whole different level. As it should be, given it costs nearly twice the price of mine.

I do wonder if the NA engine will be a little like my e9x M3 was in the sense that it was great up top, but boring under 5k.
Maybe a bit, but keep in mind the GT4 weights in a lot less than the E90

300lb ft is t too bad in a car weighing around 3,1xx
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08' M3 Interlagos Blue: 6sp, Tech.
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      11-02-2019, 02:02 PM   #43
Romo
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Weel, Idid it, I ordered a 718 GT4, PDK, PCCB, 18 way electrical adjustable seats, ETA 06-2020

I'll try Aventurine Green, but no PTS possible yet, not clear if possible at all.

So color is the question for me now.

It has been specked as a MT, transition to PDK expected 2nd Q 2020, it will be one of the first PDK versions available in the Netherlands.

I`m keeping my OG M2
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      11-03-2019, 06:30 PM   #44
///AVM
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Why are drivers so interested in 0-60 times?

My 718 CGTS pulls hard, and doubt I could appreciate any difference if it pulled a 3.6 versus 4.0 sec 0-60 time? Not sure if the M2C or 718 CGTS pulls a faster 0-60 time, but I can tell you the M2C FEELS like it pulls harder.

On the other hand, my eyes and heart light up when my GTS is pulling through a turn or long curve. That is where the car earns what I paid for it.

This gets me to the GT4. NA flat 6 is going to absolutely howl. The sound alone significantly elevates one’s driving experience. Is it better or worse than the 718 GTS in terms of actual performance? Not sure, but I know what that NA flat 6 does when it comes to perceived performance.

M2CS versus GT4? Realistically, appears we are looking at a $40K price difference, minimum. That cannot be ignored for nearly anyone. I can float $80K for M2CS, but a big ‘no-go’ for a $120K GT4.

Price aside . . . forget it, you cannot ignore the price. I am going with the M2CS all day and night. The truth is, however, if I am going with M2 model, then it is going to be the M2C. Now we are talking an approximate $60K price difference (half the GT4).

I said it before, and I will say it again, you are going to be hard pressed to find more performance for the money than you get the M2C. Do not need to drive the M2CS, just give me the M2C. . . BMW can keep all the carbon fiber parts.

///AVM

Last edited by ///AVM; 11-04-2019 at 12:03 PM..
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