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      08-27-2020, 07:48 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I wonder if your experience is due to the fact that these two cars (M2 and 718) are closer in spirit to each other than one might think at first glance.

They’re different, sure. But also similar. Not cheap, or very practical (let’s be honest about the 2er’s back seat). Lots of BHP, smiles, true DCT or a manual, and RWD...”cheapest” alternatives for Porsche or ///M....sounds somewhat similar to me.

That’s why I wanted something truly different for my daily, and got a Mini Cooper JCW. It’s very different from our 981 or M2...and yet, I appreciate it and love to drive it. It feels very different than our other two cars. And so it made sense for me, as a second and strictly speaking, necessary car. For that exact reason....it’s very different.
Was thinking basically the same thing - right now, I have a GTI and a Miata to go with my M2, and they're all VERY different driving experiences. I enjoy them all - each is great at its own "mission". Planning on a 911 next, which I have to admit is the same "mission" or "spirit" ("beastly German sporting machine"? ) as the M2, though it should feel sufficiently different to drive.
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      08-27-2020, 08:50 PM   #90
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. . . though it should feel sufficiently different to drive.
Bob

Cannot and would not argue with any other car owner's needs and interests. If yours include owning three or four vehicles, that works for me. I have several friends who are enthusiasts and share interests similar to those of your own.

The M2C and GTS are completely different yet, as you and Boone indicate, both share in their offering a visceral driving experience.

I did not know going in, but now realize owning both is not as fulfilling as anticipated. I do get some satisfaction from fact that my wife and oldest daughter (new driver in family) enjoy driving the M2C when I am not. . . which is increasingly rare.

Neither enjoys driving the GTS. . . according to THEM the GTS sits too low, is too loud and too fast.

///AVM
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      08-28-2020, 02:52 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
...oldest daughter (new driver in family) enjoy driving the M2C...
You certainly place a lot of trust in her. In hindsight, my wettest of dreams would've included driving such a torque monster after acquiring my licence. Boys tend to be more aggressive drivers though so, I'm guessing you can still sleep at night.
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      08-28-2020, 02:48 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Cannot and would not argue with any other car owner's needs and interests. If yours include owning three or four vehicles, that works for me. I have several friends who are enthusiasts and share interests similar to those of your own.

The M2C and GTS are completely different yet, as you and Boone indicate, both share in their offering a visceral driving experience.

I did not know going in, but now realize owning both is not as fulfilling as anticipated. I do get some satisfaction from fact that my wife and oldest daughter (new driver in family) enjoy driving the M2C when I am not. . . which is increasingly rare.

Neither enjoys driving the GTS. . . according to THEM the GTS sits too low, is too loud and too fast.

///AVM
Agreed - everyone has different preferences. (For instance, some ppl prefer DCT vs manual, hence the never-ending pointless debates on here - esp pointless since both are going extinct!).

I wish I could STOP wanting more new sports cars - it's a disease. And there's apparently no cure, although, since I prefer stick shifts in the cars I buy, my time is rapidly coming to an end, as they're disappearing fast. I'm pretty much stockpiling for the looming "carpocalypse" (first the DCT will die, then the manual, then the electrics will take over - and hopefully I'll be dead before self-driving cars push human drivers out of existence ). After the 911, I am done, unless I need to replace the Miata or GTI (which just might be the last two cars offering stick shifts!).
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      09-11-2020, 03:54 PM   #93
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As of now would take the Porsche price for price.... at that price point going mid engine and having that handling, driver position and I would be okay paying up for the PDK over DCT/manual.

Still wouldn't buy the current GTS because the trans gearing isn't optimal but the S58 in 2022 in the M2C/S vs Porsche 4.0/GTS PDK would be much harder to decide.
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      11-08-2020, 01:56 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
No doubt about it, the Porsche forums are full of the same ‘debates’ that just constantly repeat themselves. Turbo vs NA . . . 718 vs 911 . . . GTS vs GT4 . . . GT4 vs GT3 . . . one individual/group constantly trying to convince themselves and/or others which is ‘BETTER.’

However, the topic of Porsche vs BMW does not exist or - at the VERY LEAST - does not come up in nearly every single thread. Probably because Porsche enthusiasts recognize BMW does not build a chassis that remotely compares with the 718/911 chassis. There is absolutely no value in comparing chassis that are so completely different.

Conversely, nearly every thread on this forum digresses into BMW vs Porsche . . . before completely digressing into the ultimate, ‘well, my BMW has a functional back seat.’ Seriously?! I think 90% of members on this forum just need to go out and buy themselves a Porsche already. If new is not an option, then buy a nicely broken-in CPO model of your choice and get it over with already.

When I bought my M2C I knew I did not need two cars, but I have begun to learn I do not even enjoy owning two cars. It has not equated to ‘twice the fun.’ I feel my 718 CGTS is a superior product when it comes to overall quality and performance. On these two measures, the Porsche offers much ‘MORE.’

However, more does not always equate to better. In fact, when it comes to the Competition vs CS debate, nothing the CS has offer over the Competition is that important to me. I do not even like most of the ‘more’ the CS has to offer. Thus, I just wanted the M2C.

Now, for all of you obsessed and who constantly want to compare your BMW of choice to a Porsche offering, I offer (my) further perspective . . .

Not sure there has ever been a better sellers car market than exists right now. The dealerships are desperate for new and used inventory. Consumers want to buy cars. Between the 718 CGTS and M2C, do you know which one I am not willing to consider parting ways . . . the M2C!

More does not equate to better when it comes to what is best for each individual enthusiast. There is subjectively just something about the M2C that touches all the right nerves for me. The Porsche grass is not always greener when it comes to every individual, even if offering more and perceived as being better. . . the same can be said of the Competition vs CS.

So, will I succumb to the market demands and ‘sell high’ when it comes to my 718 CGTS? Yes, if the right offer comes my direction. Will I consider selling my M2C at this time? Absolutely not!!

///AVM (aka Porsche fanboy)
This post resonates with me on many levels. First, I too have learned through experience that owning two cars does not translate to twice the fun. I've also learned, through experience, that the Porsche grass is not always greener. My personal experience is that the Cayman chassis, steering, braking, manual transmission, and na sound are all superior to every M I've owned. A lot of this is weight and mid-engine platform. That said, the tall gearing, for me, really undermines the car. The Cayman is also, for me, a pain to get in and out of on an ongoing basis (It is wonderful once you're in). Lastly, as much as I love NA, I benefit more from the M2's torque in most of the driving I do.

As it relates to pricing, I don't think a CS is worth the premium versus the M2 comp, but the Porsche is- IF you prefer it - and if you don't go crazy on options.

In summary, I'm shopping for an M2 comp.

Of course, everyone's situation is different.
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      11-25-2020, 05:30 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
This post resonates with me on many levels. First, I too have learned through experience that owning two cars does not translate to twice the fun. I've also learned, through experience, that the Porsche grass is not always greener. My personal experience is that the Cayman chassis, steering, braking, manual transmission, and na sound are all superior to every M I've owned. A lot of this is weight and mid-engine platform. That said, the tall gearing, for me, really undermines the car. The Cayman is also, for me, a pain to get in and out of on an ongoing basis (It is wonderful once you're in). Lastly, as much as I love NA, I benefit more from the M2's torque in most of the driving I do.

As it relates to pricing, I don't think a CS is worth the premium versus the M2 comp, but the Porsche is- IF you prefer it - and if you don't go crazy on options.

In summary, I'm shopping for an M2 comp.

Of course, everyone's situation is different.
I think for us enthusiasts the key point is to drive these cars before buying and taking the time to see what "calls to you more". The problem with the current market is that the demand for any of these machines is small in the grand scheme of things, so these cars inevitably have a time-limited production run. The pressure thus is to buy in a short time frame, sometimes even before you drive the damn thing, and debates on forums can add a dimension to our decision making (rightly or wrongly).

As you highlight scoale: Everyone's situation, driving style, tastes are different - and we are a better community for this diversity. But from a purely sterile financial perspective I don't see the CS offering much value above a M2Comp. But looking at it from another angle, having now seen the G82 m4 grille, I would rather pay for a M2CS than 87k for that monstrosity.
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      04-10-2021, 04:15 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
As of now would take the Porsche price for price.... at that price point going mid engine and having that handling, driver position and I would be okay paying up for the PDK over DCT/manual.

Still wouldn't buy the current GTS because the trans gearing isn't optimal but the S58 in 2022 in the M2C/S vs Porsche 4.0/GTS PDK would be much harder to decide.
Do we know for sure that the G87 will get the S58? Any possibility it just gets the B58?

I'd go GTS 4.0 over the M2 CS all day.
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      04-12-2021, 11:43 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
Do we know for sure that the G87 will get the S58? Any possibility it just gets the B58?

I'd go GTS 4.0 over the M2 CS all day.
Would be a mistake for G87 to debut with B58.

I think M2cs is the better "daily do everything" car while the Porsche is a more special second/weekend car. M2cs if I could only have one car. M comp for daily and Porsche for weekend if I could have two.
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      04-12-2021, 04:18 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
Do we know for sure that the G87 will get the S58? Any possibility it just gets the B58?

I'd go GTS 4.0 over the M2 CS all day.
The G87 will have the S58 motor slightly detuned like the current S55 is in out F87. It will be built on the Z4/Supra chassis. production starts in Dec 2022.

Pricing, weight, options, final styling etc are al in the wind right now
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      05-16-2021, 08:29 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosef81 View Post
I think for us enthusiasts the key point is to drive these cars before buying and taking the time to see what "calls to you more". The problem with the current market is that the demand for any of these machines is small in the grand scheme of things, so these cars inevitably have a time-limited production run. The pressure thus is to buy in a short time frame, sometimes even before you drive the damn thing, and debates on forums can add a dimension to our decision making (rightly or wrongly).

As you highlight scoale: Everyone's situation, driving style, tastes are different - and we are a better community for this diversity. But from a purely sterile financial perspective I don't see the CS offering much value above a M2Comp. But looking at it from another angle, having now seen the G82 m4 grille, I would rather pay for a M2CS than 87k for that monstrosity.
I debated M2CS vs G82 M4C for a while and have decided to go with a G82 M4C xDrive when it comes out. For now I have a 6MT M2C. While I love the car, I don’t love the feel of the MT; even with an Autosolutions SSK, my stock ND miata shifter has better feel and engagement.

The M2CS is super special, super rare, and likely is a better track vehicle than the G82. I’d love to own one if I could have multiple cars. HOWEVER, I can’t get myself to plunk down 89k+ADM for an M2CS that basically has an interior design that is nearly a decade old, offers minimal performance upgrade over my M2C, and provides no additional comforts that’ll aid in daily driving.

I then also considered a GTS 4.0, but then realized that it lacks basic utility that I’ll need. Plus as a self-proclaimed BMW fanboy, I don’t know if I can make the switch.

Hence, here I am waiting for allocations on a G82 M4Cx. A colleague of mine at work purchased one and I can tell you without hesitation that if you can get past the nose, the car is an absolute machine to drive both on the daily and in the canyon twisties.

TLDR, it just comes down to personal preference and what you want out of the car.
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