[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

They could sell it at ED MSRP and mark it up from there. Dealer fees, doc fees, Vin etching fees, ect. You name a dealer will come up with a fee to make you think your getting a certain price but just put the numbers somewhere else.

If they mark up the car 5% to US MSRP, chances are they would mark up US MSRP too

According to my understanding, and I will clarify this before I officially put a deposit with the buyer's order tomorrow (I have their 1st allocation), they are charging US MSRP whether you pick it up in Munich or pick it up stateside.

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

According to my understanding, and I will clarify this before I officially put a deposit with the buyer's order tomorrow (I have their 1st allocation), they are charging US MSRP whether you pick it up in Munich or pick it up stateside.

Yea I would clarify because they would be making a lot more money doing ED then if they did US.

If they do ED, they are making the difference from ED invoice to US MSRP. If they do a US order, they are making the difference from US invoice to US MSRP.

If my math is right, they would make about 3,000 more doing ED than US.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Are there really long waiting lists for this car like the GT3RS and GT4 cayman or can you get a car within a few months as allocations are released?

you can believe what people say about production not being " limited"... or you can get in line.... oops.. too late!

BMW likely will and should market this car just like Porsche does with the GT4.
Provide some serious sizzle in a car that many people will want... but sell the hell out of the lower models or the bread butter model.
For Porsche.. that means sell down to Cayman GTS or up to 911 .. For BMW... that means sell down to M235 or up to M3/M4

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

According to my understanding, and I will clarify this before I officially put a deposit with the buyer's order tomorrow (I have their 1st allocation), they are charging US MSRP whether you pick it up in Munich or pick it up stateside.

NOT SURPRISING to see that there are dealers doing this... Dealers can do what they want.. Many dealers would only allow ED at full US MSRP for the 1M, which effectively mean another $3180 in the dealer's pocket.

However... MOST dealers (read: dealers that aren't near on the coasts. or in CA, FL ..) WILL sell you a car straight up... ED price for ED or US MSRP for US delivery. Personally.. I would call BS on them.... and it might mean move on to another dealer ... These kind of shenanigans are EXACTLY why I cautioned many people to make a move to get on more than one dealer list, and also to be flexible enough to be comfortable with buying from a dealer not in your home region if possible.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

Yea I would clarify because they would be making a lot more money doing ED then if they did US.

If they do ED, they are making the difference from ED invoice to US MSRP. If they do a US order, they are making the difference from US invoice to US MSRP.

If my math is right, they would make about 3,000 more doing ED than US.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

NOT SURPRISING to see that there are dealers doing this... Dealers can do what they want.. Many dealers would only allow ED at full US MSRP for the 1M, which effectively mean another $3180 in the dealer's pocket.

However... MOST dealers (read: dealers that aren't near on the coasts. or in CA, FL ..) WILL sell you a car straight up... ED price for ED or US MSRP for US delivery. Personally.. I would call BS on them.... and it might mean move on to another dealer ... These kind of shenanigans are EXACTLY why I cautioned many people to make a move to get on more than one dealer list, and also to be flexible enough to be comfortable with buying from a dealer not in your home region if possible.

This is not true. There is survey money they lose out on if they do euro delivery on one of their allocations. This is where the 5% reduction for ED comes into play. That money would normally go to the dealer for a perfect survey score, but ED cars don't have that survey, so no money is awarded to the dealer. So if they do ED, they give up the chance to earn 5% profit if they sold at ED MSRP. That's why some will only sell at US MSRP - to make up for the loss of that survey money. I am glad some dealers are willing to sell the ED cars at ED MSRP, but for everyone here to think that it is a scam to pay US MSRP for an ED car this hot, it isn't valid.

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

This is not true. There is survey money they lose out on if they do euro delivery on one of their allocations. This is where the 5% reduction for ED comes into play. That money would normally go to the dealer for a perfect survey score, but ED cars don't have that survey, so no money is awarded to the dealer. So if they do ED, they give up the chance to earn 5% profit if they sold at ED MSRP. That's why some will only sell at US MSRP - to make up for the loss of that survey money. I am glad some dealers are willing to sell the ED cars at ED MSRP, but for everyone here to think that it is a scam to pay US MSRP for an ED car this hot, it isn't valid.

This is true, these are not series models that are basically free sales for ED, they come out of dealer allocations and therefore are held a little tighter to the chest. I went into the process knowing that I have the first allocation expecting, at best ED MSRP, at worst a market adjustment. I wouldn't have played ball with a market adjustment, but US MSRP is within my expectations. It is not a good deal, but it is an acceptable deal considering I have to turn in my 135 in May and I want to be in an M2.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

This is not true. There is survey money they lose out on if they do euro delivery on one of their allocations. This is where the 5% reduction for ED comes into play. That money would normally go to the dealer for a perfect survey score, but ED cars don't have that survey, so no money is awarded to the dealer. So if they do ED, they give up the chance to earn 5% profit if they sold at ED MSRP. That's why some will only sell at US MSRP - to make up for the loss of that survey money. I am glad some dealers are willing to sell the ED cars at ED MSRP, but for everyone here to think that it is a scam to pay US MSRP for an ED car this hot, it isn't valid.

"Survey money" = SCAM

YEP. I said it. What a travishamockery

I love it how you explain the scam, and then attempt to remove it from the equation !

Make up any excuse you like, but any dealer doing this is making a decision for more $$$ over the will of that customer.

Not all dealers do this. So then why buy from a dealer that does. ESPECIALLY when this comes last minute. Clearly @LINKF1 would likely have gotten in a DIFFERENT dealer line had this policy for this dealer been explained previously.

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Not all dealers do this. So then why buy from a dealer that does. ESPECIALLY when this comes last minute. Clearly @LINKF1 would likely have gotten in a DIFFERENT dealer line had this policy for this dealer been explained previously.

1. I am in 3 Lines, this just happens to be the only one that I am #1 on.
2. Originally (in July) this dealer said they (the dealership) won't be offering ED for the M2. I was fine with that, because even today, I am not sure ED will work for my schedule.
3. My top priority is getting something to replace my 135 before the lease is up in May. The top of the list is the M2, and it seems like 2nd allocations wont be until June or July at this point. This is my best chance at getting an M2 as my next car.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

"Survey money" = SCAM

YEP. I said it. What a travishamockery

I love it how you explain the scam, and then attempt to remove it from the equation !

Make up any excuse you like, but any dealer doing this is making a decision for more $$$ over the will of that customer.

Not all dealers do this. So then why buy from a dealer that does. ESPECIALLY when this comes last minute. Clearly @LINKF1 would likely have gotten in a DIFFERENT dealer line had this policy for this dealer been explained previously.

Lol you're ridiculous right now. Choosing to make more money?? Why is it difficult to understand? I'll do what you do and bold the text to get it to sink in... If the car was sold on the lot, it would sell for US MSRP + they get survey money. If it is euro delivery l, they get no survey money. The margin between what they earn (US msrp - US invoice) (ED msrp - ED invoice) are equal amounts. If that amount is a 10% profit for either delivery method, then the dealer stands to make more by only offering US delivery since they at least can get survey money on top of their 10%. So why then offer ED at all and lose out that 5% survey cash? It is a 5% discount and it is a scam especially when the customer tries to hold back more money at the will of the salesman. Lol see how stupid it sounds when I say it? It sounds just as dumb when you do too. Dealers are not offering discounts right now. So to expect ED msrp (an automatic 5% discount and a loss to dealer profit) is expecting something that no one else is getting. Sure some dealers are doing it. I just assume these dealers are dumb. But to say they are scamming people is ridiculous.

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Lol you're ridiculous right now. Choosing to make more money?? Why is it difficult to understand? I'll do what you do and bold the text to get it to sink in... If the car was sold on the lot, it would sell for US MSRP + they get survey money. If it is euro delivery l, they get no survey money. The margin between what they earn (US msrp - US invoice) (ED msrp - ED invoice) are equal amounts. If that amount is a 10% profit for either delivery method, then the dealer stands to make more by only offering US delivery since they at least can get survey money on top of their 10%. So why then offer ED at all and lose out that 5% survey cash? It is a 5% discount and it is a scam especially when the customer tries to hold back more money at the will of the salesman. Lol see how stupid it sounds when I say it? It sounds just as dumb when you do too.

So your saying a dealership makes 5% of they do well on a survey? I don't think so.

What is the 5% based on, MSRP, Profit, or invoice? Also cars aren't marked up 10%, more like 6-7%. If they got an extra "5%" for a survey, we would hear more deals in the 10-12% range. Also I have never had a dealer once push any survey on me. If there was 5% involved, they would be all over you and handing out things for you to get it done.

Also, my last deal was out of state and delivered at the PCD. I never once stepped in the dealer or received a survey. So your saying they lost out on 5%? I don't think so.

I'm sure there is a bit more that goes into it when it's ED, but that 5% discount is provided by BMW because they don't have to pay duties since the car was sold in Germany (not 100% on this). They are passing those savings onto you, they aren't discounting you 5% because of a survey

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

I'm sure there is a bit more that goes into it when it's ED, but that 5% discount is provided by BMW because they don't have to pay duties since the car was sold in Germany (not 100% on this). They are passing those savings onto you, they aren't discounting you 5% because of a survey

That is false, there is no change in duties for a ED car. 2.5% of the value whether new or used.

Bimmerfest is a good source for ED info and they have a Wiki for this purpose: http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php/ED_Summary

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

That is false, there is no change in duties for a ED car. 2.5% of the value whether new or used.

Bimmerfest is a good source for ED info and they have a Wiki for this purpose: http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php/ED_Summary

That's what I meant, you don't pay duties when picking it up in Germany.

I've also read that post before and know that dealers get incentives for cars sold. But it's not 5% per car and not survey baswd, it's based on a quota system. Sometimes you might be the lucky guy where if they sell your car, the dealer makes an extra 1000$ bucks so there willing to discount the car heavily.

It even says that a dealer will try to convince you there are extra fees Involved but you should be able to get 5-700 over ED invoice. Obviously not something you can get on the M2

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

That's what I meant, you don't pay duties when picking it up in Germany.

I've also read that post before and know that dealers get incentives for cars sold. But it's not 5% per car and not survey baswd, it's based on a quota system. Sometimes you might be the lucky guy where if they sell your car, the dealer makes an extra 1000$ bucks so there willing to discount the car heavily.

It even says that a dealer will try to convince you there are extra fees Involved but you should be able to get 5-700 over ED invoice. Obviously not something you can get on the M2

Fact: bad survey = dealer loses money
Fact: no survey (ED sale) = dealer never even had chance to make that money

It doesn't matter what you want to call it, an ED sale cannot make the same profit as a US sale if both cars are sold at respective MSRP. Now if you want to pay US msrp for an ed car, the dealer would get the same profit as if he had sold it on his lot at US msrp and received perfect scores on customer survey. And yes, the bonuses they hit (quotas) are dependent on these surveys. Those cars don't count if the customer bombs them on the survey. Go search stories of salesmen who harassed customers they bent over backwards to please and found out they got a 9 out of 10 on the survey. It's a flawed system but it's the one they live by. Calling it a scam or saying it doesn't exist is not going to change that.

[XRAVE]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Fact: bad survey = dealer loses money
Fact: no survey (ED sale) = dealer never even had chance to make that money

It doesn't matter what you want to call it, an ED sale cannot make the same profit as a US sale if both cars are sold at respective MSRP. Now if you want to pay US msrp for an ed car, the dealer would get the same profit as if he had sold it on his lot at US msrp and received perfect scores on customer survey. And yes, the bonuses they hit (quotas) are dependent on these surveys. Those cars don't count if the customer bombs them on the survey. Go search stories of salesmen who harassed customers they bent over backwards to please and found out they got a 9 out of 10 on the survey. It's a flawed system but it's the one they live by. Calling it a scam or saying it doesn't exist is not going to change that.

Sorry but you are way off. Selling a car at US MRSP and doing ED on an M2 would profit them an extra 3K. More than any quota would get them.

Also the surveys play a large role but but not in a huge bonus per car. A low rated dealer would get as many allocations.

I almost did ED with my m3 and was provided the same over invoice wether I did it in the US or ED

Sorry but you are way off and have been manipulated by a dealer. That's all I have to say about this, it's your choice to believe what they told you.



Also this wasn't the point of why I posted this thread.

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

More than any quota would get them.

I have some friends in the business (not BMW) and the quota for volume of sales is immense. I think you are underestimating this factor.

I am sure it also varies by dealership, and that may be the driver behind the dealerships that have ED specialists and those who don't. They dont set their internal incentives to encourage ED sales.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

Sorry but you are way off. Selling a car at US MRSP and doing ED on an M2 would profit them an extra 3K. More than any quota would get them.

Also the surveys play a large role but but not in a huge bonus per car. A low rated dealer would get as many allocations.

I almost did ED with my m3 and was provided the same over invoice wether I did it in the US or ED

Sorry but you are way off and have been manipulated by a dealer. That's all I have to say about this, it's your choice to believe what they told you.



Also this wasn't the point of why I posted this thread.

This isn't one dealers confirmation. This is industry wide practice. I have friends who manage dealerships and have heard them tell me the same thing I have read about BMW dealerships in regards to sales and surveys. Likewise believe what you want. I go on hearsay from trusted sources. Not sure what you base your knowledge on.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by XRAVE

Sorry but you are way off. Selling a car at US MRSP and doing ED on an M2 would profit them an extra 3K.
Sorry but you are way off and have been manipulated by a dealer. That's all I have to say about this, it's your choice to believe what they told you.



Also this wasn't the point of why I posted this thread.

[Aloha Joe]

I have no idea on whether a dealer makes extra profit on a survey or not, all I know is that every time I've purchased a car. I have received a survey about the dealership, which I then mail back to the manufacturer.

A couple of questions. Wouldn't this still be done by the dealership who set up the ED, because won't the majority of ED cars eventually get delivered to that dealership? Also, what if I don't return the survey, does the dealer get docked more for a unreturned survey or one with a low score?

While I may be totally off base, I would think it would be unfair to the dealer if a customer doesn't send the survey back, and the manufacturer docks them for it. When receiving a survey on something that I have purchased, I'm 50/50 on sending it back, my wife responds on maybe only 5% of surveys and that's only if she's unhappy.

My guess is that a dealer, who receives an overall score on returned surveys, is above certain percentage points stated by the manufacturer. They may receive additional benefits from the manufacturer. Also, they get to keep selling that manufacturers product versus a dealer with very consistent low scores, may lose the ability to sell that manufacturers product.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Aloha Joe

I have no idea on whether a dealer makes extra profit on a survey or not, all I know is that every time I've purchased a car. I have received a survey about the dealership, which I then mail back to the manufacturer.

A couple of questions. Wouldn't this still be done by the dealership who set up the ED, because won't the majority of ED cars eventually get delivered to that dealership? Also, what if I don't return the survey, does the dealer get docked more for a unreturned survey or one with a low score?

While I may be totally off base, I would think it would be unfair to the dealer if a customer doesn't send the survey back, and the manufacturer docks them for it. When receiving a survey on something that I have purchased, I'm 50/50 on sending it back, my wife responds on maybe only 5% of surveys and that's only if she's unhappy.

My guess is that a dealer, who receives an overall score on returned surveys, is above certain percentage points stated by the manufacturer. They may receive additional benefits from the manufacturer. Also, they get to keep selling that manufacturers product versus a dealer with very consistent low scores, may lose the ability to sell that manufacturers product.

What I have read and been told is that the dealer/salesman would prefer you not to take the survey than to give them a less than perfect score. The ED cars do not get this survey. My car was an ED. I never got a survey.

Here is more information on this subject:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=149391

[Aloha Joe]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

What I have read and been told is that the dealer/salesman would prefer you not to take the survey than to give them a less than perfect score. The ED cars do not get this survey. My car was an ED. I never got a survey.

So based on your comment (in bold), ED may not affect the dealer in a negative manner. Lets try a hypothetical below.

Dealer A sells 50 cars a month and the manufacturer reviews the survey of cars sold that month. 15 don't return the survey, 20 are returned perfect, and 15 are less than perfect.

Dealer B sells 50 cars a month as well, manufacturer checks surveys for the month also, 25 aren't returned, 20 are returned excellent and 5 are less than perfect.

So now here's the question, do both dealers receive the same bonus as they both have 20 excellent ratings?

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Aloha Joe

So based on your comment (in bold), ED may not affect the dealer in a negative manner. Lets try a hypothetical below.

Dealer A sells 50 cars a month and the manufacturer reviews the survey of cars sold that month. 15 don't return the survey, 20 are returned perfect, and 15 are less than perfect.

Dealer B sells 50 cars a month as well, manufacturer checks surveys for the month also, 25 aren't returned, 20 are returned excellent and 5 are less than perfect.

So now here's the question, do both dealers receive the same bonus as they both have 20 excellent ratings?

My statement above is based on a thread I read where a couple BMW CA's chimed in about surveys and they said they preferred no survey submitted. A bad score is worse than no score. I would assume in your scenario that the dealership with more bad scores would earn less.

[Aloha Joe]

hyperzulu, I agree with your answer, so I think ED my not affect dealer hold back, customer survey bonus or whatever it's called because of no survey.

But who knows, in this crazy automobile world, we could be so off base! Haha