[ZM2]

Hey guys, here are my first BM3 logs. All third gear pulls with one shift into fourth. I was getting on the brakes pretty hard and immediately back to WOT bn pulls.

I have the Dinan IC & Turbo, FTP pipes, CSF radiator & oil cooler, stock downpipe. The BM3 guys wanted to take a look at these before sending over a Stg 2H (higher boost) 93 map for the Dinan turbo.

I have no idea what I’m looking at, so all input is appreciated!

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c27c772c090c60aec16b86e

[M2guru]

Your post makes me want BM3 for my M2! I log my DSM (Eclipse) but told myself that I wanted to just set my M2 and forget it - hence why I went with VFE. But now... ;-)

I am not a professional, but from what I see your logs look good! No knock, boost is steady, fuel pressure looks good, AFRs look good (rich in fact), fuel trims look good.

Timing seems strange to me (I am not used to seeing individual cylinder timing), it seems that it is pulling timing more and more each run. I am guessing that it's because your IATs (as well as coolant and oil temps) are going up each pull. What was the ambient temp when you did the pulls?

[ZM2]

Ambient was 51F, so nice and cool.

Not sure what to think about the individual cylinder timing pull, either.

Also curious to hear folks thoughts on the EGT since I’m running the stock downpipe and temps got up to 1590F.

[M2guru]

Since it wasn't being pulled at a couple/few cylinders and it was being pulled all across the board, I think things are fine from an individual cylinder perspective. What I would be thinking if I were you (depending on many factors including how you drive your car - i.e., drag race, track/HPDEs, street) is whether or not to upgrade (again) your intercooler.

Re: EGT this is a good source for information: http://blog.innovatemotorsports.com/...ther-and-both/

Basically AFR is a leading indicator and EGT is a lagging indicator. The rise in EGT could be attributed to the reduction in timing.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by M2guru

Since it wasn't being pulled at a couple/few cylinders and it was being pulled all across the board, I think things are fine from an individual cylinder perspective.

After looking again, I see the reduction of timing in a couple cylinders, but it confuses me how it knows which cylinder to reduce without individual cylinder AFRs or EGTs. Regardless, I don't think the difference is significant enough to think there is a problem other than increasing IATs.

[Anthony1s]

Shouldn't the Dinan IC be one of the best ones? I haven't seen tests, but I assume its dual core would be better than anything else out there.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Shouldn't the Dinan IC be one of the best ones? I haven't seen tests, but I assume its dual core would be better than anything else out there.

Should be, for IATs. There's about a 30F increase bn low & high IATs in this log. Not sure how good or bad that is.

Altho, I have some belief that the Dinan dual core/air flow design is reducing airflow to the radiator and heating up coolant temps, but that's a different issue that I only experience on track and need to do some more testing to verify.

Coolant & oil temps in this log are pretty low, 208F & 235F respectively. Shouldn't be impacting timing.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Should be, for IATs. There's about a 30F increase bn low & high IATs in this log. Not sure how good or bad that is.

If the timing is getting pulled because of the IATs, then a more-efficient-at-cooling-the-intake-air intercooler would be better for keeping timing up. There might be other reasons for the reduced timing - I am no professional. What is somewhat surprising to me about intercoolers is that there is little talk about the Dinan intercooler here: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ighlight=dinan

I have the stock turbo, CSF intercooler, and do HPDEs as much as I can, but cannot log. :-( I wish could add real data to this thread.

Originally Posted by ZM2

Coolant & oil temps in this log are pretty low, 208F & 235F respectively. Shouldn't be impacting timing.

I agree with you here. It should take a higher coolant and/or oil temp to influence the ECU to change things. A good test would be to see what happens to the IATs after a 20-30 min HPDE session. Do you anticipate being able to log that come spring 2019?

[ZM2]

I’ve seen IATs increase 55F in 40min sessions with ambient at 107F while running the Dinan IC, turbo, and Stage 4 piggyback. That was also with the car pulling power bc of high coolant temps: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1525790

This is a very extreme example running full tilt the whole time on slicks, AP BBK, no in between cool off laps, etc. So, the IC may hold some blame, but I first wanted to try the BM3 tune per SeanWRT recommendation.

I won’t be able to log on track for a few months.

[M2guru]

I appreciate your information and experience! Do you have logs from that extreme example? I'd enjoy looking at them if so.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M2guru

I appreciate your information and experience! Do you have logs from that extreme example? I'd enjoy looking at them if so.

It’s a simple Excel data file export using an iPhone app with snapshot readings every few seconds. No track or video overlay. Happy to send it over if you PM me your email addy.

[M2guru]

PM sent. I read through a bunch of your other posts. Have you considered the stock downpipe as a potential source (not 100% of course) of your higher-than-desired oil and coolant temps? Not only would it hold more heat in itself, but the engine has to work harder to force air through it. Just a thought...

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M2guru

PM sent. I read through a bunch of your other posts. Have you considered the stock downpipe as a potential source (not 100% of course) of your higher-than-desired oil and coolant temps? Not only would it hold more heat in itself, but the engine has to work harder to force air through it. Just a thought...

Yup, it's definitely a thought.

Part of the reason I wanted to try BM3 was to gather all the data I could get to see how the car is performing, and then determine next steps, vs throwing parts at it.

IC, downpipe, octane, boost, engine tune, larger aux radiator are all on the table.

[SeanWRT]

Welcome to the club!

First of all, you logged back to back in a similar fashion as I did, except that I did a little more until 6k~6k2 rpm in 4th gear after finishing 3rd. It's important to monitor the behavior in rpm matching in shifting, and how everything settles.

It seems, unlike me, you have long enough road for full 4th gear pull, so please log full range 4th gear next time if possible.

Onto your log, pretty normal or typical I'll conclude. I see guys are concerned about EGT, oil temp and coolant, please do not. Street logs are far from pushing to limits on these areas. Also, there is no probe in the tubofold, meaning no way to know EGT accurately. The ones shown on log is DME's estimate of EGT, which is calculated with load/boost/ignition & etc, and is based on stock hardware. With all these hardware upgrade, you're actually cooler than what it thinks. What's accurate is Coolant being 200F and oil temp 220-230F, pretty normal with 3rd gear repeated pulls.

Two things worth mentioning:
1) You are running clean under 80F of IAT, but become a bit unstable above 90F. That level of timing correction is comparable to a full stock car and thus nothing worry about. And your last two pulls are clearly a sign of DME adapting. It'd surely be a bit better next time you log but do not expect a big improvement. Since you track sometimes, you need to log with much higher temp runs, preferably 120F if possible. I suspect your car won't be holding up good enough without hardware upgrade.

Dinan IC looks fine in your case, but not as great as many think. Cooling wise, it's somewhere in between Wagner EVO1 and EVO2 from these logs.
First few runs, with the top strong ICs (Wagner, CSF, ER) it would show an IAT drop of 5~10F in the middle of 3rd gear and still hold a lower IAT than the start of run when finishing 3rd. Dinan didn't perform to that level. Keep in mind you're running relatively low boost (doesn't stress IC as much as other STG2 cars) because of DME adjusting boost to your cool temp, and you have the bigger turbo which runs cooler than stock by nature. Also, seeing a 40~50F IAT rise after back to back pull on just 3rd gear is another indication.

2) The good is your fuel pump holds up pretty well at load thrown at it. I'm sure there is another 1~2psi in it.

I would suggest downpipe (lower turboback and manifold pressure and thus helps ignition a bit) and pure Inlet pipe (reducing shaft speed and thus cooler) if you want a more aggressive tune.

Or, you can just try their 2H map as is, you can quickly see the limits and decide what to do next.

BTW, how do you like the tune, compared to Dinan STG4 given the same hardware?

[ZM2]

Hey SeanWRT thanks for your feedback.

I’ll log into fourth gear next time.

Makes sense about EGT.

Sounds like you recommend IC, then downpipe, then inlet pipe? If so, I’d go EVO2, then Akra 300 cell, then Pure inlet (I already have the FTP inlet pipe).

I’ll do some logs with the 2H map when I get it just to better highlight these issues. I’d like to get the car sorted before summer.

The BM3 tune is nice. Very smooth and responsive.

[SeanWRT]

Ask PTF first

Hardware wise, downpipe would be the first thing to have in your case IMO.

If FTP inlet was already installed, i wouldn't replace it with pure. Maybe when necessary, but definitely not now.

IC is acceptable as is. Log with a more aggressive tune and decide.

[ZM2]

Will do. I’ll update this thread with 2H logs & any hardware changes as they happen.

[M2guru]

SeanWRT Do you have any knowledge regarding how it knows to reducing timing in specific cylinders? I don't see and can't think of where it gets enough information per cylinder to know for which cylinder to reduce the timing. Is it just making adjustments to specific cylinders and learning from the results in order to make more long-term changes (like the LTFT)? Thanks for any insights!

[M2guru]

I was continuing to play around with the BM3 log and found it interesting to isolate the IAT, Ambient Temp, Throttle Position, and Engine Speed.

You can see the auto rev-match blip in RPM without throttle input (kinda cool to see). But you can see that upon initial 100% throttle the IAT goes down briefly and then climbs up to beyond where the pull was started. You can also see that in each subsequent full throttle application the IAT has gotten higher, dips then continues to climb past the starting point. But by eye-balling the rate of change, the rate seems to lessen with each pull. This is probably obvious, but the real value in the data will be in the runs throughout a ~20 min session.

Anyway...no real new information, it was just neat (to me) to reduce the noise of the additional data points. Adding the individual cylinder timing didn't tell me anything definitive. Screenshot attached.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by M2guru

SeanWRT Do you have any knowledge regarding how it knows to reducing timing in specific cylinders? I don't see and can't think of where it gets enough information per cylinder to know for which cylinder to reduce the timing. Is it just making adjustments to specific cylinders and learning from the results in order to make more long-term changes (like the LTFT)? Thanks for any insights!

Each cylinder has a knock sensor that can hear and report for DME to adjust.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Each cylinder has a knock sensor that can hear and report for DME to adjust.

So apparently those sensors cannot be recorded with BW3? Or were they just not selected for logging? Sorry - haven't played with BM3 myself yet.

[ZM2]

I can log ignition duration, dwell, and timing for each cylinder.

I can also log misfire, rough running, and Normalized Ref Level Knock Control for each cylinder.

Other non-cylinder specific data points are Knock Detected (which is in my log), Knock Sensor Voltage Cyl 2 & 5, Knock control reference 1-4, and Super Knocking.