[Nebelhinten]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

I think your on to something big here MR. It looks like US is no longer playing second fiddle to Europe engine power ratings. The new EU regulations have flipped the HP game in favor of the US/Asia markets.


To follow up on #1 in the OP. Two more publications stating particulate filter in new Z4 robs nearly 50hp.

PistonHeads: "Outside Europe this has been given a power boost to 382hp, but EU spec cars will come with a petrol particulate filter - yes, that's a thing now - limiting output to the 335hp of the M240i."

Autoblog: "But unlike the European version that gets stuck with a particulate filter for their tighter emissions rules, Stateside-bound Z4s will enjoy a juicy 50-horsepower gain that brings total output to 382 hp"

C&D: "This was the car we got to drive in France, although in its lesser European state of tune—apparently the presence of a gasoline particulate filter limits output to 335 horsepower, while in the States it should make 382 horses, according to BMW engineers."

MT and Automobile were actually first reviews I read that mentioned filter in Z4, but they all mentioned it.

"When the Z4 M40i hits our shores, power is an M2-beating 382 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque, surprisingly more than the Euro-spec, which is choked by a particulate filter that saps the sixer by around 50 hp."

I just found it interesting that they would tell reviewers this now since it's a prototype and they still have time to remedy the difference if that's at all possible. Yes, the unveil is happening next month at Pebble Beach, but I would think they still have time to deal with purely mechanical issues. Just speculating, but perhaps they can't tune B58 up enough to compensate for the filter.

I think euro M2C owners are actually fortunate that hp is same as US spec given Z4 situation.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Nebelhinten

MT and Automobile were actually first reviews I read that mentioned filter in Z4, but they all mentioned it.

"When the Z4 M40i hits our shores, power is an M2-beating 382 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque, surprisingly more than the Euro-spec, which is choked by a particulate filter that saps the sixer by around 50 hp."

I just found it interesting that they would tell reviewers this now since it's a prototype and they still have time to remedy the difference if that's at all possible. Yes, the unveil is happening next month at Pebble Beach, but I would think they still have time to deal with purely mechanical issues. Just speculating, but perhaps they can't tune B58 up enough to compensate for the filter.

I think euro M2C owners are actually fortunate that hp is same as US spec given Z4 situation.

There is definitely something to it, as all the reviews of the Z4 mentioned the Euro version having less HP. Really no reason to mention that unless it were going to into production that way. It was like BMW was warning US publications reviewing the Z4, don't worry the car will have more power in your market. 50hp is a huge difference. Remember the Supra is using the B58 as well, but coming from an Asian market it might not have particulate filter. Although for EU markets, Toyota will certainly have to fit one to the car.

These filters must be very restrictive as to rob 50hp. I'm not totally convinced the Euro version M2C is same ratings as US version. Only an independent dyno will be able to verify that. If the particulate filter robs 50hp on B58, imagine what two filters are doing to the S55 and the state of tune it would have to have to overcome it.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

There is definitely something to it, as all the reviews of the Z4 mentioned the Euro version having less HP. Really no reason to mention that unless it were going to into production that way. It was like BMW was warning US publications reviewing the Z4, don't worry the car will have more power in your market. 50hp is a huge difference. Remember the Supra is using the B58 as well, but coming from an Asian market it might not have particulate filter. Although for EU markets, Toyota will certainly have to fit one to the car.

These filters must be very restrictive as to rob 50hp. I'm not totally convinced the Euro version M2C is same ratings as US version. Only an independent dyno will be able to verify that. If the particulate filter robs 50hp on B58, imagine what two filters are doing to the S55 and the state of tune it would have to have to overcome it.

That is why the car feels so less engaging... It is like something holds it back.

It doesn't because it is fast and you can see that in your speedo, but you have fast and experiencing fast.

It just feels to me that they they properly had to differ the car to differentiate it from a M4 and meet emission regulations.

Call it less fun to drive than a M2. While with that engine it should be a freaking blast.

MR

[VIERsr]

Moreover, high air temperature may have affected the performance of the engine, you should try again the car with less than 37°C

[KevM2]

So is it 100% confirmed that the US cars don't have the OPF at this point? I can't wait for someone to be able to dyno these cars for comparison

[chmura]

Originally Posted by KevM2

So is it 100% confirmed that the US cars don't have the OPF at this point? I can't wait for someone to be able to dyno these cars for comparison

Yes 100 % the U.S. spec M2c does not have a Gasoline Particle Filter.

Look at the engine certification executive order. No GPF is listed under ‘special features and emission control systems’.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad...3d0_u3-125.pdf

[bwhouse]

So does anyone know if Australian delivered vehicles will have the OPF? Several of the articles say that cars for the US and Asia do not have OPF. However, I assume Australian delivered vehicles will have it as they will as they are the EURO model (2U72) in saying that from what I can see cars going anywhere outside of the US are the EUR 2U71 or 2U72 model.

So my question is, is the OPF and associated tune part of the model code (2U71, 2U72, 2U73) or do we think it is being added by the region specific options such as "L810A National version Australia" or whatever the region option is for European countries.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by chmura

Yes 100 % the U.S. spec M2c does not have a Gasoline Particle Filter.

Look at the engine certification executive order. No GPF is listed under ‘special features and emission control systems’.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad...3d0_u3-125.pdf

Does this mean that the US version should have optimum power delivery? Looking for the M2C to feel more powerful than N55 M2.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Does this mean that the US version should have optimum power delivery? Looking for the M2C to feel more powerful than N55 M2.

I think they are aiming for the power at the wheel to be about the same so the Euro version the crank HP will be higher to compensate for the OPF reducing HP. The US version has a lower state of tune because it doesn't come with the OPF. The results is similar wheel horse power, in theory. However the cars might still differ in responsiveness and sound?

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by chris719

I blame VW and the diesel lobby for this. It is insane, they push diesel so hard in Europe for decades when it is the primary contributor to smog via NOx particulates, and now they are applying crazy standards to petrol engines which are much cleaner still than all the little diesel shitboxes running around...

It’s because of the better fuel efficiency and lesser carbon monoxide produced from Diesel engines...the regulators then putted up ridiculous figures for car manufacturers to achieve with Diesel engines thus forcing everyone to cheat in order to pass.

Now they are onto it again with this noise and OPF thing...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

It’s because of the better fuel efficiency and lesser carbon monoxide produced from Diesel engines...the regulators then putted up ridiculous figures for car manufacturers to achieve with Diesel engines thus forcing everyone to cheat in order to pass.

Now they are onto it again with this noise and OPF thing...

Compare Los Angeles to Paris now for air quality. I think European cities failed their residents by pushing diesels for the improved fuel efficiency. Well, apparently it depends on what measure you look at, since LA still sucks, but smog is not a problem in most North American cities.

I find it ironic that the OPF is only needed because of direct injection which came about because of pressure to increase efficiency.

I don't think diesel has any place for passenger cars, though.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by bwhouse

So does anyone know if Australian delivered vehicles will have the OPF? Several of the articles say that cars for the US and Asia do not have OPF. However, I assume Australian delivered vehicles will have it as they will as they are the EURO model (2U72) in saying that from what I can see cars going anywhere outside of the US are the EUR 2U71 or 2U72 model.

So my question is, is the OPF and associated tune part of the model code (2U71, 2U72, 2U73) or do we think it is being added by the region specific options such as "L810A National version Australia" or whatever the region option is for European countries.

What I heard is that countries can make a choice based on local legislations... I haven't had this confirmed, but it seems logical.

MR

[Veebee]

Everybody is talking about the car is beeing hold back... I have not driven it for sure, but guys - do not forget that you have driven it 35-36°C according to the videos. That is a LOT HOT! If not anything alse - there is a huge difference in air desity so the turbocharged engine never can perform that well in terms of Nm and hp. It is huge difference 20 or 35°C.

I would have wait until somebody drives it in standard conditions.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by chris719

Compare Los Angeles to Paris now for air quality. I think European cities failed their residents by pushing diesels for the improved fuel efficiency. Well, apparently it depends on what measure you look at, since LA still sucks, but smog is not a problem in most North American cities.

I find it ironic that the OPF is only needed because of direct injection which came about because of pressure to increase efficiency.

I don't think diesel has any place for passenger cars, though.

I think the European regulators failed their residents by mindlessly trying to phase out IC engine and favouring EV vehicles. Pollution cause will shift from cars to Power stations because of the need to burn more natural gases and coals to meet the increase in electricity demand (from EVs) - unless they purely use renewable energy for their power grid.

Modern IC engines are actually very clean and someone smart did a calculation stating that an ICE actually develops less overall pollution than an EV once pollutions from the Power station is taken into consideration. Therefore those environmental nutters should put more effort in phasing out those old beaters running with an inefficient engine instead.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Veebee

Everybody is talking about the car is beeing hold back... I have not driven it for sure, but guys - do not forget that you have driven it 35-36°C according to the videos. That is a LOT HOT! If not anything alse - there is a huge difference in air desity so the turbocharged engine never can perform that well in terms of Nm and hp. It is huge difference 20 or 35°C.

I would have wait until somebody drives it in standard conditions.

That's true. The N55 M2 will also feel sluggish at that temperature...with timing retardation for a start

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

I think the European regulators failed their residents by mindlessly trying to phase out IC engine and favouring EV vehicles. Pollution cause will shift from cars to Power stations because of the need to burn more natural gases and coals to meet the increase in electricity demand (from EVs) - unless they purely use renewable energy for their power grid.

Modern IC engines are actually very clean and someone smart did a calculation stating that an ICE actually develops less overall pollution than an EV once pollutions from the Power station is taken into consideration. Therefore those environmental nutters should put more effort in phasing out those old beaters running with an inefficient engine instead.

EU is a clusterf*ck.

[bwhouse]

Originally Posted by MR.

What I heard is that countries can make a choice based on local legislations... I haven't had this confirmed, but it seems logical.

MR

Fingers crossed then. I guess we probably wont find out until the first cars arrive.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

EU is a clusterf*ck.

It is a mess... And you U.S. guys think Trump is a hell... Main thing here is that the EU's mess is not combined into a single person, acting like a lunatic, at our end the whole system is fucked and there are multiple little Trumps.

MR

[MR RIZK]

Originally Posted by bwhouse

So does anyone know if Australian delivered vehicles will have the OPF? Several of the articles say that cars for the US and Asia do not have OPF. However, I assume Australian delivered vehicles will have it as they will as they are the EURO model (2U72) in saying that from what I can see cars going anywhere outside of the US are the EUR 2U71 or 2U72 model.

So my question is, is the OPF and associated tune part of the model code (2U71, 2U72, 2U73) or do we think it is being added by the region specific options such as "L810A National version Australia" or whatever the region option is for European countries.

New Zealand configuration page is 2U72. Not sure if we are the same but they would be our closest rhd neighbour. I hope we don't get the OPF.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Veebee

Everybody is talking about the car is beeing hold back... I have not driven it for sure, but guys - do not forget that you have driven it 35-36°C according to the videos. That is a LOT HOT! If not anything alse - there is a huge difference in air desity so the turbocharged engine never can perform that well in terms of Nm and hp. It is huge difference 20 or 35°C.

I would have wait until somebody drives it in standard conditions.

Exactly. As you would well know from the Evo. It's like having a different car. You should try 40 degrees!

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by MR.

It is a mess... And you U.S. guys think Trump is a hell... Main thing here is that the EU's mess is not combined into a single person, acting like a lunatic, at our end the whole system is fucked and there are multiple little Trumps.

MR

9 out of 10 times EU needs a guy like Trump imho.
Merkel, Macron and Juncker are more like little Obamas and Castros if you ask me



And the OPF can literally be cut out and replaced by an OPF less midpipe.

Cheers
Robin

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

9 out of 10 times EU needs a guy like Trump imho.
Merkel, Macron and Juncker are more like little Obamas and Castros if you ask me



And the OPF can literally be cut out and replaced by an OPF less midpipe.

Cheers
Robin

Yep +1