[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Hi all, new here as well. I did ~15 or so track days in a modified Mustang before moving to Germany for work and getting an M2. I am also interested in this thread as having a single setup which work for street and track would be awesome, but my experiences with the slightly heavier and more powerful Mustang tell me otherwise.

I've used Raybestos and Carbotech/GLOC pads before. For the track on Max performance summer tires (Pirelli PZero and Bridgestone S04) I had great results with Carbotech XP8/10 combo. Almost no fade and 6+ track days per set. When I went to extreme performance summer tire (Hankook Ventus R-S3) I switched to Carbotech 10/12 combo. I was able to gain on Porsches and Corvettes in the brake zones.

But on heavier cars brake temps and fade are an issue. The XP10s were good to 1400F and I did overheat them a few times (shudder). The XP12s were solid to 2000F so no fade ever, but a set lasted 3 track days.

The BMW is a bit lighter (3450lbs in MT variant vs 3610lbs) and has ~50 less HP than the Mustang. Plus it has larger 2-piece rotors front and rear. I would stipulate that on the same day at the same track they brake temps of the bimmer would be lower, but has anyone checked brake temps at the track?

I ask because something like the Ferodo 2500 start loosing friction around 1100F, and I'm curious what people here have observed before I decide on next set of pads. Thanks!

If you’re halfway quick (sounds like you are), a hybrid pad won’t work for the M2. The OEM blue brakes already get too hot and dumps that heat into the fluid and pads.

I cracked a front set of DS2500s (with the AP BBK) at Watkins Glen once a dry line started to form and I could get into the brakes 7-8/10s. 9-10/10s, not a chance. The DS2500 is a great street pad, tho.

My recommendation is a dedicated track pad like the PFC 08 or 11.

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by ZM2

If you’re halfway quick (sounds like you are), a hybrid pad won’t work for the M2. The OEM blue brakes already get too hot and dumps that heat into the fluid and pads.

I cracked a front set of DS2500s (with the AP BBK) at Watkins Glen once a dry line started to form and I could get into the brakes 7-8/10s. 9-10/10s, not a chance. The DS2500 is a great street pad, tho.

My recommendation is a dedicated track pad like the PFC 08 or 11.

If you like the Ds2500 for the street, you can also swap to the DS1.11 for track duty. The compounds are similar enough that you do not have to rebed the pads every swap.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by detroitm2

If you like the Ds2500 for the street, you can also swap to the DS1.11 for track duty. The compounds are similar enough that you do not have to rebed the pads every swap.

Yup, I use the DS1.11 as my normal track pad. I tried the UNOs, but thought the release was much to grabby.

I was only running the DS2500 that day because the track was snowed over and I figured they’d be fine. After about 40min, a small dry line formed before the bus stop and I started to get some judder. Brought her back in and found one of the front pads had cracked longwise thru the pad about halfway down in the material, and I was able to pull the pad apart.

So, my advice is to not try to find a pad that “works” on both the street & track. You’re just asking for trouble.

[switzerr]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Hi all, new here as well. I did ~15 or so track days in a modified Mustang before moving to Germany for work and getting an M2. I am also interested in this thread as having a single setup which work for street and track would be awesome, but my experiences with the slightly heavier and more powerful Mustang tell me otherwise.

I've used Raybestos and Carbotech/GLOC pads before. For the track on Max performance summer tires (Pirelli PZero and Bridgestone S04) I had great results with Carbotech XP8/10 combo. Almost no fade and 6+ track days per set. When I went to extreme performance summer tire (Hankook Ventus R-S3) I switched to Carbotech 10/12 combo. I was able to gain on Porsches and Corvettes in the brake zones.

But on heavier cars brake temps and fade are an issue. The XP10s were good to 1400F and I did overheat them a few times (shudder). The XP12s were solid to 2000F so no fade ever, but a set lasted 3 track days.

The BMW is a bit lighter (3450lbs in MT variant vs 3610lbs) and has ~50 less HP than the Mustang. Plus it has larger 2-piece rotors front and rear. I would stipulate that on the same day at the same track they brake temps of the bimmer would be lower, but has anyone checked brake temps at the track?

I ask because something like the Ferodo 2500 start loosing friction around 1100F, and I'm curious what people here have observed before I decide on next set of pads. Thanks!

I posted earlier about my love of Performance Friction products. I used the PFC 11 compound exclusively after going to a dedicated track pad on my E46 M3. It wasn’t my daily driver by any stretch, but the street characteristics worked well for the street use it saw.

I wouldn’t compromise on a car as fast as an M2. No street pad is going to be satisfying on a track if you are aggressive with the braking zones.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by ZM2

If you’re halfway quick (sounds like you are), a hybrid pad won’t work for the M2. The OEM blue brakes already get too hot and dumps that heat into the fluid and pads.

I cracked a front set of DS2500s (with the AP BBK) at Watkins Glen once a dry line started to form and I could get into the brakes 7-8/10s. 9-10/10s, not a chance. The DS2500 is a great street pad, tho.

My recommendation is a dedicated track pad like the PFC 08 or 11.

Originally Posted by switzerr

I posted earlier about my love of Performance Friction products. I used the PFC 11 compound exclusively after going to a dedicated track pad on my E46 M3. It wasn’t my daily driver by any stretch, but the street characteristics worked well for the street use it saw.

I wouldn’t compromise on a car as fast as an M2. No street pad is going to be satisfying on a track if you are aggressive with the braking zones.

Thank you gentlemen, this was also my gut feel, but I wanted to verify with the community most familiar with the M2 first.

I don't yet have any experience with performance friction products, but based on your recommendations I think I should. Is Carbotech/GLOC a popular brand for these cars?

I have aggressive goals for my stay in Germany. I want to be able to get into high 7 min Nordshleife BTG time. In 2019 I plan to stay on Michelin PSS the car currently has (not worry about lap times, but just learn the car and the tracks), and for 20/21 season I'm thinking of switching to Potenza RE71R and going after lap times. And I know myself, every time I think "ok, I'll just take it easy and keep it at 8/10" I end up pushing it harder as the laps go by. It's hard not to if you know your car, and the track and you're confident in your abilities behind the wheel.

You guys are right, I need a dedicated track pad. The nice thing about Brembo calipers is how easy pad changes are.

Thank you!

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by ZM2

If you’re halfway quick (sounds like you are), a hybrid pad won’t work for the M2. The OEM blue brakes already get too hot and dumps that heat into the fluid and pads.

I cracked a front set of DS2500s (with the AP BBK) at Watkins Glen once a dry line started to form and I could get into the brakes 7-8/10s. 9-10/10s, not a chance. The DS2500 is a great street pad, tho.

My recommendation is a dedicated track pad like the PFC 08 or 11.

DS1.11 has been the most popular pad for track duty right behind the Pagid RS29. PFC08 is right there with the DS1.11 as far as popularity goes.

DS2500 is an excellent choice for a street pad if you run DS1.11 or DSUNO on the track.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Thank you gentlemen, this was also my gut feel, but I wanted to verify with the community most familiar with the M2 first.

I don't yet have any experience with performance friction products, but based on your recommendations I think I should. Is Carbotech/GLOC a popular brand for these cars?

I have aggressive goals for my stay in Germany. I want to be able to get into high 7 min Nordshleife BTG time. In 2019 I plan to stay on Michelin PSS the car currently has (not worry about lap times, but just learn the car and the tracks), and for 20/21 season I'm thinking of switching to Potenza RE71R and going after lap times. And I know myself, every time I think "ok, I'll just take it easy and keep it at 8/10" I end up pushing it harder as the laps go by. It's hard not to if you know your car, and the track and you're confident in your abilities behind the wheel.

You guys are right, I need a dedicated track pad. The nice thing about Brembo calipers is how easy pad changes are.

Thank you!

I love that goal! My two days on the Ring it was 45F and wet, so no sub-8 BTG laps. However, it was segment training and then full laps each day with BMW. We’d do each segment of the track over and over to learn it, get out to look at particular curves, bumps, elevation, and then put it all together at the end of the day.

It was a great program that you may want to check out: https://www.bmw-drivingexperience.co...xperience.html

I still didn’t have the track memorized after two days, but I do now with some good sim rig time. Pre BMW training, I was at 8:35 for a full lap (8:10-15 BTG). After, I’m 8:20 full lap (7:55-8:00 BTG). But, that’s all theoretical, right?

Anyways, PFC 11 was my go to for the OEM brakes. PFC 08 lasts longer, but 11 has more bite and better pedal feel. I tried Pagid first and PFC is way better.

[5.M0NSTER]

Wow, that’s cool, thanks for the info. I definitely want to get an instructor and learn the line before I attempt it at speed on my own.

That’s how I started the hobby, 2 days of instruction with the local BMW club at the tracks near me.

I’ll look into PFC08 and 11. Did you run same compound front and rear or higher friction in the front? I’m not yet sure what the brake balance is like on the M2 yet

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Wow, that’s cool, thanks for the info. I definitely want to get an instructor and learn the line before I attempt it at speed on my own.

That’s how I started the hobby, 2 days of instruction with the local BMW club at the tracks near me.

I’ll look into PFC08 and 11. Did you run same compound front and rear or higher friction in the front? I’m not yet sure what the brake balance is like on the M2 yet

I always ran the same compound front & rear.

Some guys go different, but to me that’s splitting hairs and in the same boat as adjustable suspension: you’re fidgeting with things that aren’t going to save you appreciable time, when you should be focused on where you’re doing good and where you’re sucking on track.

[5.M0NSTER]

Ha, I see what you mean. On the Mustang the front brakes were 14" 4 piston Brembos, and the backs were 11.3" single piston joke. With fronts doing 85% of the braking when the weight transfers I would put more friction up front. This way trail braking was still controllable.

This is why I asked. But on the M2 the rear setup is a proper dual piston Brembo caliper with 14.5" rotors, so I would think the brake balance is more neutral. In which case same friction coefficient makes more sense.

[jritt@essex]

Gents,

As an FYI...I'm going to have Ferodo manufacture a run of their DS1.11 compound in the M2 Competition front shape (we already have the DS1.11 in the rear shape). We should have them fairly quickly. I'll check back in when they're ready. Thanks!

[look585]

I'm also using ceramics. Power Stops. They do a fine job for street driving with no dust. Very happy with them.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...brake+pad,1684

[AndrewC1989]

Originally Posted by look585

I'm also using ceramics. Power Stops. They do a fine job for street driving with no dust. Very happy with them.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...brake+pad,1684

How long have you had them? Any squealing or clacking? I'd love a dust free pad but I've been reading about quite a few complaints of fitment issues and noisiness when browsing these types of threads so I'm hesitant.

[look585]

Originally Posted by andrewc89

How long have you had them? Any squealing or clacking? I'd love a dust free pad but I've been reading about quite a few complaints of fitment issues and noisiness when browsing these types of threads so I'm hesitant.

No fitment issues whatsoever.
It squeals a little every now and then backing up but it doesn't bother me. I mean how long do you back up anyways?
No squeal or noise moving forward.

Don't know, maybe the complaints are coming from not bedding in properly?
I take mine up to the crest and bed them in quickly and that's it.
No noise whatsoever and dust free.

[Professor MSP]

Originally Posted by look585

No fitment issues whatsoever.
It squeals a little every now and then backing up but it doesn't bother me. I mean how long do you back up anyways?
No squeal or noise moving forward.

Don't know, maybe the complaints are coming from not bedding in properly?
I take mine up to the crest and bed them in quickly and that's it.
No noise whatsoever and dust free.

Thank you for the feedback, as it is really helpful. But I have a question. In the link you provided, which pad did you install, the Z23 or Z26, or perhaps another?

Thank you.

[look585]

Originally Posted by Professor MSP

Thank you for the feedback, as it is really helpful. But I have a question. In the link you provided, which pad did you install, the Z23 or Z26, or perhaps another?

Thank you.

I bought these a while back but if I'm not mistaken it is under daily driver.
They specifically specified ceramic, that much I do remember.
By the prices specified it is under daily driver.
I'm going to see if I have the box in the garage or the receipt.

There is another member here that turned me on to these Maybe he can chime in. They work great for the streets.

I'm almost certain it was not the Z23 or 26.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Z23 is the generally recommended pad from Power Stop by the M3/M4 guys. The Z16 has very poor braking performance. Z23 has close to OEM without all the dust

[look585]

Well, I was wrong. Found the boxes.

Z-23 1609 B
Evolution Sport
Carbon Fiber Ceramic.

Z-23 1656

Same description as above.

[atlas]

Do the DS2500 squeal much in daily driving?

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by atlas

Do the DS2500 squeal much in daily driving?

DS2500 have very little squeal. They sometimes give a little squeak at the very last portion of a roll-up to a stop. Otherwise they are fairly silent, particularly if they are bedded-in when they are first installed. We have them installed in ev everything from BRZ, Miata, STI, Corvette, Mustang, M3, GT3, Lambos, McLaren...all over the map. They are a fantastic all around pad that handle a lot of conditions, and they have shockingly good manners for a pad with such a high temperature threshold.

[mhanism]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

DS2500 have very little squeal. They sometimes give a little squeak at the very last portion of a roll-up to a stop. Otherwise they are fairly silent, particularly if they are bedded-in when they are first installed. We have them installed in ev everything from BRZ, Miata, STI, Corvette, Mustang, M3, GT3, Lambos, McLaren...all over the map. They are a fantastic all around pad that handle a lot of conditions, and they have shockingly good manners for a pad with such a high temperature threshold.

How is brake dust with the 2500s vs. the OEM pads?

[SEAT TIME RULES]

[QUOTE=5.M0NSTER;24182210]Thank you gentlemen, this was also my gut feel, but I wanted to verify with the community most familiar with the M2 first.

I don't yet have any experience with performance friction products, but based on your recommendations I think I should. Is Carbotech/GLOC a popular brand for these cars?

I've ran Carbotech XP-12 track pads on my EVO X (3350 lbs) year round. They are gentle on rotors when cold unlike most other track only pads but still offer ok bite on the street in cold weather. They will squeal as you come to a stop and require shims to cut down on the noise as well. They are outstanding track pads with no fade. IMHO the 12's are the right compound for the weight of the M2C.

Let me know if you give them a try.

One thing that's very important with CT pads. Don't swap out to another brand pads. they are very touchy regarding another compound being bedded into the rotors.